OP
@chilidog avatar
UTC

Hooked
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
 
Hooked
@chilidog avatar
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
UTC quote
I don't know what it is, all I can think of is that I am cursed. With help from you all, I just got over troubleshooting and fixing my electrical problem. Now I have a new one with my kickstart gear.

It has happened to me twice, the first time I just through the kickstart didn't seat properly after the start. This second time it was running for a bit and then made a clunk sound and stalled. Something is catching on the kickstart gear and after this second time it is locked up. I can't seem to free up the kickstart.

Anyone experience this before or have thoughts on what is making this happen?
@mjrally avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@mjrally avatar
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5222
Location: Oceanside, CA
UTC quote
Anything fall in the gearbox? Clutch woodruff key?
UTC

Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
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Location: New Zealand
 
Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
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Posts: 685
Location: New Zealand
UTC quote
smacks of clutch wood ruff key
you may think the clutch slid in nicely (well it did )and it then prob knocked the key out of the crank unbeknownst to you....the clutch will still function with out it..until it finds its way tween gears etc

Split ye must

My clutch method to avoid this is having the scoot on 45 angle leaning away from the motor...introduce the clutch until you feel it just rest against the xmas tree.....now remove all your hands and dont touch it....and reach around the clutch with small screwdriver and turn the xmas tree ever so slightly and the clutch will slide in ON ITS OWN WEIGHT ..if all is lined up...the minute you try and PUSH it in place you risk bumping the key

Fckn scooters
OP
@chilidog avatar
UTC

Hooked
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
 
Hooked
@chilidog avatar
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
UTC quote
Re: smacks of clutch wood ruff key
Bluecati wrote:
Split ye must
Ugh.... I guess thanks for confirming my fear.
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
OP
@chilidog avatar
UTC

Hooked
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
 
Hooked
@chilidog avatar
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
UTC quote
Needing a bit more advice on the clutch re-install
So after splitting the case, removing the chunk of mangled woodruff key in my gear, cleaning and putting it all back together, I can't get the clutch back on. I ordered two woodruff keys from two different parts stores. They seem close to the same tolerance when compared but for the life of me, I am unable to slide the clutch back into place. I swear that the clutch key is too tall. Any thoughts?
@108 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
V range 50s
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Ossessionato
@108 avatar
V range 50s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2425
UTC quote
Re: Needing a bit more advice on the clutch re-install
chilidog wrote:
So after splitting the case, removing the chunk of mangled woodruff key in my gear, cleaning and putting it all back together, I can't get the clutch back on. I ordered two woodruff keys from two different parts stores. They seem close to the same tolerance when compared but for the life of me, I am unable to slide the clutch back into place. I swear that the clutch key is too tall. Any thoughts?
Its usually just really tight fit... i usually fit something plastic to push it into place...

Just make sure its in dead straight

On the clutch side, the slot is actually really tall, just keep referencing that to see how much further the woodruff key needs to go in...
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4470
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
Hey Chilidog - sometimes the clutch woodruff key is a pain in the ass.

I found that if I get the clutch all lined up on the key, then with a long thin screwdriver push the back of the woodruff key down while gently coaxing the clutch in, the clutch will magically slide right in.

Good luck, and let us know how it works out....
@hibbert avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1827
Location: California
 
Molto Verboso
@hibbert avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1827
Location: California
UTC quote
check the keyway slot in the clutch with your key make sure it slides in smooth may need a file pulled through a few

edit: do I remember someone super glueing the key into the crank?
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7195
Location: So Cal
UTC quote
Removing and replacing the clutch might be my least favorite scooter task. It's a tight fit, an awkward angle and hard to see what's what.

My tips:

1. Take some emory paper and clean any rust off the crank and the inside of the clutch.

2. Put some valve grinding compound on the crank and fit clutch on the crank without the key. Spin the clutch back and forth, polishing the taper to make sure the clutch fits all the way on the crank.

3. Clean everything squeaky clean, especially the woodruff key slot. Make sure the key sits ALL THE WAY down in the slot.

4. Remember that the clutch has to engage not just woodruff key, but the primary gear. It helps to have the scoot in gear and to rock the flywheel slightly to line up the gears.

It's a PITA but if you do all of the above you should be able to slip the clutch on fairly easily.
@gravelrash2004 avatar
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Addicted
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
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Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
 
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@gravelrash2004 avatar
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
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Posts: 511
Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
UTC quote
+1 for what SoCalGuy states - that what i do.

i have also found that some woodruff keys are ever so slightly too tall and fat so what i do is dress the edges across an engineers diamond block a couple of times and this helps no end.
SoCalGuy wrote:
Removing and replacing the clutch might be my least favorite scooter task. It's a tight fit, an awkward angle and hard to see what's what.

My tips:

1. Take some emory paper and clean any rust off the crank and the inside of the clutch.

2. Put some valve grinding compound on the crank and fit clutch on the crank without the key. Spin the clutch back and forth, polishing the taper to make sure the clutch fits all the way on the crank.

3. Clean everything squeaky clean, especially the woodruff key slot. Make sure the key sits ALL THE WAY down in the slot.

4. Remember that the clutch has to engage not just woodruff key, but the primary gear. It helps to have the scoot in gear and to rock the flywheel slightly to line up the gears.

It's a PITA but if you do all of the above you should be able to slip the clutch on fairly easily.
OP
@chilidog avatar
UTC

Hooked
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
 
Hooked
@chilidog avatar
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
UTC quote
thanks everyone for advice. I will take a look at trying to hone things up a bit, making sure there aren't any small fragments holding things up. It has been a challenge as I have already pushed the key out of the slot once which it fell into the engine. Luck was on my side and I was able to fish it out with a magnet. I just don't want to do that again. I will let you know how it goes with some more attempts this evening. I like the screw driver trick and will give that a go.
@moto64 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS, '58 LD 125 (150)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1993
Location: S.Salem, NY
 
Molto Verboso
@moto64 avatar
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS, '58 LD 125 (150)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1993
Location: S.Salem, NY
UTC quote
If the motor's out, could you do it upside down ?
OP
@chilidog avatar
UTC

Hooked
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
 
Hooked
@chilidog avatar
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
UTC quote
Moto64 wrote:
If the motor's out, could you do it upside down ?
Motor is in place with scooter back end blocked up. As ypu all probably have experienced is the challenges of laying on your side straining to look up the skirt and maneuver the clutch into the right position. I think if I buy some sort of lift I will be jinx myself.
@jackytwoshoes avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
'13 LML '70 Sprint Veloce
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Posts: 92
Location: London
 
Enthusiast
@jackytwoshoes avatar
'13 LML '70 Sprint Veloce
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Posts: 92
Location: London
UTC quote
I've been struggling with some dodgy clutches recently so I've done it about 5 times in the last couple of weeks. Not fun, but removing the rear hub makes access a bit better and is well worth the effort imho.
OP
@chilidog avatar
UTC

Hooked
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
 
Hooked
@chilidog avatar
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
UTC quote
jackytwoshoes wrote:
removing the rear hub makes access a bit better and is well worth the effort imho.
Absolutely, rear hub is off or else I wouldn't fit.

So I did some lite sanding, added a slight chamfer to the groove to improve key line up and start... still no luck sliding it on. It now starts but will not slide further. I took some calipers and measured the shaft+key and compared it to the clutch hole+groove. There is 0.39mm difference. So I either file down the key or cut into the groove. Thoughts on which is the lesser evil? My only concern is that with a smaller key the greater possibility of shearing?
@gravelrash2004 avatar
UTC

Addicted
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
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@gravelrash2004 avatar
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: UTC
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Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
UTC quote
always modify the cheaper / easier to replace part

if you can get the woodruff key in the crank slot, then the slot in the clutch is too big, then your clutch centre boss is excessibely worn and needs replacing

looks like you have found what many others find, keyways and woodruff keys come in varying sizes.
chilidog wrote:
jackytwoshoes wrote:
removing the rear hub makes access a bit better and is well worth the effort imho.
Absolutely, rear hub is off or else I wouldn't fit.

So I did some lite sanding, added a slight chamfer to the groove to improve key line up and start... still no luck sliding it on. It now starts but will not slide further. I took some calipers and measured the shaft+key and compared it to the clutch hole+groove. There is 0.39mm difference. So I either file down the key or cut into the groove. Thoughts on which is the lesser evil? My only concern is that with a smaller key the greater possibility of shearing?
OP
@chilidog avatar
UTC

Hooked
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
 
Hooked
@chilidog avatar
'75 VBC Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
UTC quote
Gravelrash2004 wrote:
always modify the cheaper / easier to replace part
Took your advice and went for modifying the woodruff key. If my calculations are correct, I am hoping the tolerances are small. I guess time will tell if the key slot gets stripped over time of use. I got the clutch to slide one after removing 0.9 mm from the original size. Had to slowly hand file trying to to keep it level and square. Would have been nice to have a file guide for accuracy. Buttoned up the clutch, through on the wheel and took it for a spin. So far so good. What I don't understand is why there is such a difference. Why the clutch slot is off. Is it a common thing to have to file woodruff keys? Thanks everyone for the support.
Original purchased key that was for my scooter in the back. Filed down original key to fit the clutch.
Original purchased key that was for my scooter in the back. Filed down original key to fit the clutch.
@mjrally avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5222
Location: Oceanside, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@mjrally avatar
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5222
Location: Oceanside, CA
UTC quote
I've tried once to file a woodruff key. Gave up and bought one that fit. You could try your local Ace Hardware. In a pinch I've been saved twice by the ones they have in the nuts/ bolts aisle.
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
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Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
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Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Easier to just put sandpaper down on table and wiggle the woodruff key over it until you sand it down to proper thickness. Do a little, try to fit it, do it some more, try to fit again, until you find the right amount of snugness for your preferences.
UTC

Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
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Location: New Zealand
 
Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: UTC
Posts: 685
Location: New Zealand
UTC quote
try this..prob not meshing
By now you will be expert at holding your breath and with hands steady sliding it on without knocking the key out until it stops ....try again and as soon as it wont slide any further on to the crank.....REMOVE YOUR HANDS...and leave it sitting there (scoot on a wee angle helps)

Now reach behind the clutch with small screwdriver and turn the xmas tree ever so slightly clockwise perhaps 2mm...and back the other if it hasny dropped in yet

the clutch will slide down and mesh with the cog (may need ever so slight pressure with your other hand).

soooo push the clutch with one hand and reach behind with the other...and feeeeel it slide on

Youll be smiling soon
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