Modern Vespa

Production numbers and sales numbers don't always equal quality. It's like Wal-Fart sells tons of Weed Eater (Not the band!) string trimmers but you never see them on a landscapers truck. We have Bintelli and Wolf scooters that are trying to come up in quality. The Bintelli rep and my local China bike dealer (I was in there because they started selling Genuine scooters) tried to get me on a Bintelli Flash 150 because they know I ride year round and participate in the scene. Good advertising for them if it holds up. But I purchased my Liberty for twice as much because I wanted the quality and dealer support. Not saying the Liberty is better built, as I did have a rear hub seal fail and a antenna for the chip key fail, but I like knowing I can trust it 99.9% of the time to get me where I need to be. Plus I crashed the Liberty and just got a scruff on the front fender and a rash on the replaceable leg shield side. I bet that Bintelli would've shattered like cheap glass. But I'll never know. Liberty for the win!

Maybe. But we aren't talking about greedy American Importers in the Lexmoto article. We are talking about scooters and motorcycles that have to meet Euro 4 with Euro 5 on the horizon. They also have dealers and a supply chain to back them up. They don't just sell a lot because they are cheap. The scooters get used daily whether you believe the articles or not.

Just about everybody who orders containers of Chinese scooters and sticks their name on them says the same thing about the high quality components used, inspections, etc. If these British "firms", basically someone with an Alibaba account and a warehouse, fully design the bikes, why do they look exactly like every other chinese scooter using those plastics, and use the same parts? The difference between bikes made in China by Honda, Yamaha, etc, and this dreck is that Honda didn't order a couple of containers of Chinese scooters off Alibaba and slap decals on them. As far as road tests, which are often used to sell ads, a better way to evaluate these bikes is to look at ads for used ones, and not cherry pick one that sounds the best. Most of them look like they are taped together after a couple of years.
I have a fairly good understanding of how Chinese bikes are made, parts sourced, the people hired by these companies to do QC at the factories, how the factory production systems work, State owned vs. private companies, etc, and I can tell you that your version of how things are done is not the most accurate. They are better today than they were in 2001, but still don't come close to the quality of scooters sold by the companies that make them.
I notice you haven't traded your Vespa in on one.

Are there stats for current registrations after 3 or 5 years?

Actually, you are showing just the opposite Motovista. You've just demonstrated how little you understand how British firms selling Chinese bikes operate, and indeed how the good Chinese firms work. And by the way, Alibaba has nothing to do with it. It's not like you describe at all these days. And thats ok because why would you know about our situations except by someone telling you the reality (you should consider my offer by the way, you'd learn so much and we have a good time too!). What you describe is likely not too far from he truth concerning how it is in the States. But not here. We have countless bikes that don't look like and are not sold in any other form by the Chinese. The are not just rebadged bikes. It works just like for example BMW or Harley when they get their Chinese bikes. Designed by Harley or whoever, then built in China. Same for Yamaha or Suzuki or any number of manufacturers. But hey, it's up to you guys what you like or not.

In my 34 years as a master tech, I bet I've worked on many many more than you Greasy! lol. And I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You don't even know what oil to put in a motorcycle!...lol

Name a couple.

I highly doubt that.

Your claims are dubious at best and mostly misleading.

But you do you home skillet.

xoxo

-g

I went looking for Greasy's previous comments .... Very, very tantalizing ... beyond the technical aspect, if I were a publisher I would collect them in a book similar to the one on Murphy's Laws.
I am only discovering now that in addition to being a fearful moderator he is also a philosopher mechanic, this is to say that maintenance mechanics can be a life teacher.
Even in Italy the incisiveness of language can pass through unorthodox terminology, this to mark the meanings indelibly.
I'm only sorry that my imperfect understanding of vulgar english with its small but multiple lexical deviations, prevents me from grasping where a meaning hides behind the irony. Just a thoughtful consideration and (I hope) without having offended anyone.

I work in engineering for a US made gasoline power tool company. Every now and then when one of us sees a bootleg/clone of our product or something to good to be true, we purchase it and put it thru its paces. Most of the time the product in question works but its just not near our products in terms of quality, power and emissions output. Inferior across the board. Best part is when we disassemble it half the crews strip out, plastics warp and over time the ethanol in the fuel starts corroding everything.

How does this apply to cheap scooters and other budget bikes? A guy was having trouble with a China TaoTao Beast clone in the parking lot at work. My boss went out to see if he could help the poor guy get it running. They eventually got it running. Boss tells me it was a horrible mess of wasted money. I told him I don't even offer to look at those scooters. Boss has a 2003 Zuma so he knows what quality looks like. Whats that saying? You get what you pay for.

That's it ...
Chinese manufacturers do not want to learn that first it takes humility, then willingness to accept to learn ... Learning is different from copying, it is learning by developing one's own ideas to then arrive at an original product. But the rush to arrive is a bad adviser, the immediate profit wants to override every safety standard, every form of quality, recovering economic dominance makes them neglect prudence.
I don't want to lose money and personal security to satisfy anyone's craving for instant wealth.
Who spends less has less.

I just thought that this review could be helpful.

http://www.justgottascoot.com/lawrencebrown.htm

Not always. My Bashan 150 in a crate cost me $1200 and never let me down in almost 10,000 miles of use. Like the above article the success rate of a Chinese scooter depends heavily on the owner. Sadly too many Chuckleheads buy them and wonder why they failed.

I briefly owned a Kymco like 50 2T that came with a blown starter motor and a fried piston and barrel from no oil. I sold it after restoring it to health and a year later it was dead again. That owner failed to keep the oil full too. So apparently even a $2200 50cc scooter can't compensate for a bad owner either.

I believe this topic will go on for many more years ...

fencesitter

...but seriously I agree , if it's cheap how the hell is it going to be any good

buy cheap buy twice as me old dad used to say

These Chinese scooters were ubiquitous in West Africa - just about everybody had one. They were all the same - 'KTM' (yeah, right) but were completely reliable for the VCdM crew (mostly MV members) who went on the trip in 2019. They were perfect for the crappy road conditions - 17" wheels and impervious nylon tyres.

Western companies completely missed a trick by not producing a dirt-cheap PTW for the third-world markets.

My dad:
buy land, they don't make that shit any more.

Always buy the best, then you'll be satisfied. If not at least you can return it.

Why is there always time to do it twice but never do it nice.

Don't step over dollars to pick up dimes.

My pops rolled deep. I could write a book on his proverbs.

-g

And this basically sums up the thread.

However shitty plastics and crap design don't get a pass here. If I have to deflate the tire to get it past the engine case on a tire change? You can eat my ass with a side of chips and add .5hr to your bill.

-g

I'll take the compliment and kind words.

My parlance is perplexing to native English speakers as well, so no worries hombre.

-g

The book would be called The Gospel According to Greasy, if you follow his advise no doubt your scooter will be resurrected, probably on the third day. If no resurrection then deserves to burn in the fires of hell.

Ha! Hardly!

I cut some very hard lines on specific things. OCI, blondes with hoop earrings, eggplant, brakes and tires, women with a tattoo of a dagger anywhere on their body...

But the thing I learned early in my career is that you never have all the answers, there's never one absolute answer and to never stop learning.

But still, these bikes are dogshit.

-g

If you want to rag on Chinese scooters, feel free, but their motorcycles are a different matter. I had a 50cc bike with seventeen inch wheels. It was flawless for the entire time I owned it. It had a Honda clone engine with a four speed semi automatic transmission. It would do 50mph on a level road and got 135 mpg with a carburetor. I got parts from Roketa, a broken tail light lense, in a few days. Cleveland Cycle Werks, California Scooter Company and Janus run China motors with little drama.

It's too bad their scooters aren't as good.

Great article and fairly typical of Chinese bikes if looked after from even a few years ago. These days it's even better over here in the Uk. You can just buy one and ride it without fear of the bike having issues. They are so much better than even 5 years ago. They have better wiring, better frames, better built engines etc etc.

Incidentally, I've worked on the GY6 250cc engine. It's a gem. We had one in for evaluation. Nothing wrong with it and a pretty tough motor. Just saying!

I think it's rather the other way round greasy! Yeah, you're right, you are difficult to understand sometimes. But I still love you...lol.

I do have an issue with both the article and the GY6 engine...

If they are so good, why you need to change the oil every 1000 miles??

Can you imagine if all the scooters on the planet did have to change oil every 1000 miles, what environment disaster that would be??

China has come a long way, for sure, but as we say here in Australia, you can put lipstick on a pig... but he's still a pig!

We also say it here in Italy.
To the others i say: heretics!

I'll remember this to i use it.

And you'd be wrong. Dead wrong.

*whispering*
also, you're not the only master tech in this thread with years and years of experience.

-g

Just to get this thread back on track...

Are you saying that the new Vespa looks that much different from the old ones??

Am I missing something here? I thought the idea of the GTS or the GTV what exactly that! To retain the same old style while adopting all the new technologies..

I think there are enough accessories out there for you to complete the transformation, if you really want to..

To be honest with you, after 4 old Vespa I really appreciate the new GTS..

The new GTS is a great looking scooter. It's a modern classic. In 20, 30 years the kids of the future who are all on electric stuff will be looking at pictures of the GTS line going "They had great looking scooters in the 2000's!".

I think you meant to say "Western companies missed the 21st century economy by utterly and entirely abandoning third world markets to the Chinese."

And the Chinese didn't just build the scooters for Africa, Asia and S.America: they built a bunch of roads upon which to ride them.

Very true!

I know. But probably the only tech (32 years experience) with engine design and development engineering experience (18 years experience). That doesn't make me right all the time, but I've learned a thing or two...lol.

They already say it today about the Vespa from the 1950s ...
You may wonder why I don't have a Vespa, well .... the only modern Vespa I would like would be a 946 but as I have already said due to tax reasons having two vehicles of the same type here complicates life. You sell the three-wheeler ... but I also really like the little Tricity (seeing is believing); maybe one day ... who knows?

I have never thought of the modern Vespas being related in any way apart from a nod towards the style of the classic 2-stroke, manual Vespa. Nice as the modern bikes are, they will never have the gravitas of anything up to and including the PX in my opinion. There's The Vespa and the modern Vespa.

Attila,

Thanks for the breakdown on insurance. Your price seems comparable to
insurance here. Minnesota scooter/motorcycle policies understand that
the scoot will not be driven for 5 or 6 months and this is reflected in the price.

Final Question: If you caused an accident that injured (body) the other
vehicle's driver or passenger, how much (Top End) would your policy pay out.
My USA scooter policy would pay a max of $100,000 (120,000 euro) per person injured ($300,000 max everyone injured).

Bob Copeland
Minnesota

In the event of death caused EUR 10,000,000.

Is your choice of which nickname you want to add to the reality..

From my side, after having to use for work and weekends trips a Vespa 50, then a 125 followed by a 125 ET3, then a PX150, to a PX200, I can honestly tell you that the new GTS is welcome news.

Perhaps if you only use a Vespa to make a scene in a movie, then yes, any old Vespa will do. But if you are using a Vespa as a form of transportation every day, like I did for the first 30 years of my life, summer and winter, sunny or raining, believe me, you wouldn't miss those old bastard that much!

Things like, front tyre blowout followed by brown skid mark in your pants, several snapped cables from gas to gears, fouled spark plugs because of the oil mix done on the side of the road, when not all servos did sell the premix, carburettor constantly flooding if you forgot to close the cock, that eventually lead to the cock linkage rubber grommet becoming worn out, a seat made of thin foam and metal spring that used to leave the trademark printed on your ass on long trip and comfortable as a timber plank, drum brakes that never worked, or looked your wheel in the rain..
I can go on for ever..

Trust me. The new GTS it is a welcome news for people that use the Vespa for its intended purpose. And IT DOES look like a Vespa, because it is, and it is not just relate to the old crappy ones that we had to endure for many years, but it is the answer for millions of people that use the Vespa as a form of transportation every day. You think of a Vespa as a classic, where Vespa is and always has been, the poor man car!


There is a big difference between watching a classic and living it every day.
Don't get me wrong. I had lots of fun as well, but I would never go back to that crap, for everyday use. Luckily, we kept persevering by continuing to ride those time bomb, and allow Vespa to move forward to what it is today!
Nothing personal, just my opinion based on my experience, not movies

La Dolce Vita,.. my ass...


Now we could talk about my Norton 750 Commando and the three days per week that it would have happily run on the road or the other 4 days per week spent in the garage to make it happen... Another classic..

Oh yes ... all true!
Words that are printed in gold ...
I know, I've had a PX 125 for a few years when "the scooter" was just the Vespa, but when the first automatic scooters arrived it was a revelation. They have converted many motorcyclists who no longer use the bike, they have extended the age of those who use two (three) wheeled vehicles and these thanks to automatic speed transmissions.
Piaggio started with the 2-stroke Hexagon (for those who know it) after the unfortunate PK 125 Automatica series and therefore the idea of building a true modern Vespa with the LX 125/150 series. The time was ripe for an evolution of the best known and most widespread (and copied ...) vehicle on this planet.