63 GL: First Bodywork adventure
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Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3176
Location: Nashville
Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:43 am quote
I already started the thread for the 200 motor that I'm going to put in my GL, and yesterday I finally actually started working on...well...the scooter itself.

I've always just avoided body work in the past, so this will be an interesting learning experience, especially given that my only body work experience was refnishing my fiberglass boat.

This is a GL that Patrick (aka OopsClunkThud) hooked me up with back in 2018, right after I lucked into my Sprint, so it's been waiting patiently through the Sprint project, a boat restoration, the VBB rebuild that won't end, COVID, and a cross-country move. But now it's up.

I stripped down the frame yesterday and, because it wouldn't be a scooter project without weird problems to solve, I now need to figure out getting it titled given that I have *no* paperwork (the transport driver lost it when I had the scoot shipped from California) and, as I discovered yesterday, the VIN aggressively removed.

Also, when I pulled the cables, you could see rust indicating the high water mark where it sat with about two inches of water in there at some point.

Some non-trivial pitting on the floorboards, but based on what JVB did with his PX, I think I can fill it. This is where the metal filler comes into play, right?

I did a little research and as best I can tell from the Interwebs, Tennessee is not a bad state to live in if you're trying to do something like get a VIN and title for a vintage vehicle. There's a form I need to fill out and have notarized, I have to have the cops come look at it, say "Nope, you got no VIN all right," and then they can give me a report that attests to the fact that they don't think it's stolen.

And because it's over 30 years old, the process is simplified considerably. They seem pretty realistic here that old-ass barn find vehicles probably don't have a lot of paperwork to go with them.

The engine side cowl is gone and the clutch side is rotted all to hell, so I'll just order replacements for those. That simplifies things somewhat.

Assuming that the VIN/Title process goes reasonably well, next steps are:
- Continue tearing everything down
- Some Hammer & Dolly fun on the legshield (wish me luck!)
- Simple Green+metal junk to clean out the inside of the fuel tank
- Super-Remover to strip paint
- wire brush/stripper discs to get the rest of the rust off
- Ospho the tunnel
- Metal Filler (POR 15?) on the pitting in the floorboards

From there, it'll be filling and fairing, sanding, priming, filling & fairing, sanding, more sanding, more sanding, and finally some more sanding. Then paint and re-assembly time.

Also, I need to rebuild & paint the fork along with everything else to get this thing rolling again.


If you squint, I bet you can still make it out...


high water mark


Before I began


Non-trivial pitting.



Last edited by chandlerman on Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1663
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:13 am quote
Will they give you a state assigned VIN since you don't have one at all?
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5809
Location: So Cal
Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:25 am quote
Oh man, this is going to be fun. So much potential. Lots of GL goodness there. I’m rootin’ for ya.

So what’s the overall resto plan? Back to original or ...?
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1663
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:28 am quote
With how thick the metal is on these, could a person use something like walnut shells and blast it ?
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3176
Location: Nashville
Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:04 am quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
Will they give you a state assigned VIN since you don't have one at all?
Yup. That's where the calling the cops comes into it. They apparently will come inspect the vehicle and, as best I can infer, decide if I stole it myself or just got it from someone who did. The fact that it's over 30 years old makes it a LOT easier, from what I can tell.
SoCalGuy wrote:
Oh man, this is going to be fun. So much potential. Lots of GL goodness there. I’m rootin’ for ya.

So what’s the overall resto plan? Back to original or ...?
This is going to be a total restoMod. With the P200 motor, I'm going to do a gunmetal gray paint job (probably not metal flake, since I think that's beyond my skills) and blacked out trim, wheels, fork, etc.

As to the metal thickness, I think that it just needs to get ground out good, treated with Ospho, then metal filler and I can go on with my life.
Hooked
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
Joined: 24 Nov 2016
Posts: 277
Location: Flatness, TX
Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:36 am quote


Rooting for ya!
Subscribed!
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2963
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:03 am quote
Subscribed.. and jealous!
Evil
86 T5, 71 Sprint, 63 GL
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 666
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:46 pm quote
SIP has the GL cowls, I ordered cowls for my Sprint from them last year, it cost extra for shipping but they fit.



Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2088
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:57 pm quote
Right on CM1 - and I gotta say, I'm diggin the rubber matted floor in your new shop! I'll be following along.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2967

Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:01 pm quote
I just need to clear the air here...


Laying a “Texas spread” of bondo (or any other filler) over the floorboards to cover up rust damage is straight up bodge.
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3176
Location: Nashville
Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:01 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
I just need to clear the air here...


Laying a “Texas spread” of bondo (or any other filler) over the floorboards to cover up rust damage is straight up bodge.
That's a fair point, and I don't disagree. I don't like it, either, but I don't disagree.

Which leaves me with four options:
1) Kill the project. That may still happen if I can't get the VIN issue resolved, but I'm confident I can overcome that fact, so I'll leave that out of it.

2) Replace the floorboard. This is arguably the correct approach, but it's also the one that's not really an option for me. I don't have the tools or the expertise, and the cost of doing it would pretty much kill the project, too.

3) Clean out the rust and just roll with pitted floorboards. Normally, that'd be my approach, but since part of my goal here is to build a pretty bike, I wasn't going to go that route.

4) Fill in the pits and get on with my project. I have concerns about the filler cracking and flaking off, which would be even worse than pitting, which points me back to Option 3. So that's where it gets tricky.

What will I ultimately do? To quote Nils Bohr, "Prediction is hard, especially about the future."
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2257
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:19 am quote
I'd use solder to fill the pitting...
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5809
Location: So Cal
Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:38 am quote
whodats is generally correct. There’s a big difference between using filler to make cosmetic, non-structural repairs and slathering it on a half inch thick and expecting it to reinforce weakened metal.

If the pitting’s minor, there’s no reason you need to replace the floorboards. Cleaning out the rust and filling is a perfectly legit repair. But if the metal is wafer thin, or Swiss cheese-like, filler obviously isn’t the answer.

First find out what you’re dealing with. Let’s see the underside.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2967

Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:53 am quote
To me, it just looks like the pitting is kinda deep, so that's why i stated my thoughts.

Chandler, have to thought about acid dipping the frame instead? it will remove ALL of that rust...er....patina that's between all the pinch welds. Ospho won't be able to remove the rust in those areas. Plus, once you factor in all the material cost (and just a little bit of your time), dipping might come out pretty close to the same price as a DIY approach, and the final outcome will be superior! You can even have your fuel tank dipped at the same time. I'd probably just bolt the fuel tank into the fame of the scooter when you drop it off. That way the dipping company doesn't charge you for "additional" pieces.
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3176
Location: Nashville
Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:45 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
To me, it just looks like the pitting is kinda deep, so that's why i stated my thoughts.
And I appreciate it!

I'm kind've making this up as I go, other than lots of Internet research. Tracking down someone who can do acid dipping is proving to be a bit of a challenge. I've talked to most of the custom full restoration shops here in town and only one of them even sounded like they could do it, but I'm waiting for a call back from them for a more definitive answer.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5809
Location: So Cal
Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:55 am quote
If you can’t find an acid bathhouse, there are plenty of places that do media blasting. Find an outfit that uses a relatively non-abrasive material.
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3176
Location: Nashville
Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:59 am quote
yeah, media blasting is easy to find. Acid dipping would, as whodats noted, also get the tunnel and seam rust. I'm waiting to hear back from a place about an hour away from me on that.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2967

Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:16 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
If you can’t find an acid bathhouse, there are plenty of places that do media blasting. Find an outfit that uses a relatively non-abrasive material.
Try just google searching "bathhouse" you might get more hits...
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7719
Location: San Francisco
Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:41 am quote
fiberglass on the floorboards?

would say sand blast the rust out and see what's left
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8151
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:18 am quote
If there's any thought of saving & touching up the original paint, you might wanna power wire brush the floor, then use phosphoric acid on it to see what you have. Like the dip option, but DIY & just local on the floor. OK, I know you wanna paint it , but still....

Also, lets have a look at the bottom, please? That should tell a lot. I suspect my old Sprint was as bad or worse. Still has same floor, and as mentioned above, fiberglass was involved. Details: Vespa Dirt Bike Builds








Evil
86 T5, 71 Sprint, 63 GL
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 666
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:37 pm quote
Can you check the thickness of the metal in the floorboards?
I used fiberglass on the floorboards of a small frame years ago and I didn’t like how it turned out.
In retrospect, I wish I had done a light sanding, treated the rust and put on 8 coats of primer.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8151
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:33 pm quote
To be clear, I only used fiberglass mat to reinforce the BOTTOM, but I used fiberglass filler on the top, NOT much less durable 'Bondo' filler anywhere any more!



Then use this stuff on top


16 ga galvanized floor doubler is at least twice as thick as the floor I think. And a nice bonus, bike is noticeably stiffer than undamaged stock bikes.


Yay, no welding required (but you could I suppose if you never wanted to get in there again...)
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3176
Location: Nashville
Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:18 pm quote
I snuck out to the workshop and worked over the rust with a wire wheel and it poked through in two spots (circled below). The rest of it is solid, and one of those spots is over the cross beam, for better or worse.

The acid dip guy called me back and said he could do it. He's about an hour away, so now I just need to get the VIN sorted and I'm good-to-go.

Since he's a pro on this stuff, I'll get his opinion. If I need to get a patch welded in there, he can do it for me no problem, too.

This is going to do bad things to an already-blown budget, but I think that's the nature of these sorts of projects, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Two holes


Bottoms up!

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5809
Location: So Cal
Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:43 pm quote
Nice. You’re doing it right.

What’s the pool on how many holes are going to show up after the acid bath? Put me down for >5.
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3176
Location: Nashville
Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:05 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
What’s the pool on how many holes are going to show up after the acid bath? Put me down for >5.
I'll go with 4, but the ones for floor rails don't count
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2967

Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:10 pm quote
[quote="SoCalGuy"]Nice. You’re doing it right.

What’s the pool on how many holes are going to show up after the acid bath? Put me down for >5.[/quote

I’m just putting a number out there, but I’m guessing 21 holes
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 141
Location: Kansas City
Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:26 pm quote
Your floor looks so much better than mine was. I would caution against an acid dip because it may force you into your option 2 above. Good wire brush will tell you how bad it really is. Then you can explore your options. With a few pits you can treat it and skim coat with filler, or try some aluminum solder with a propane torch.

Subscribed
Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4844
Location: Hustletown, TX
Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:02 pm quote
I’m going with a bakers dozen of holes.

Godspeed and good luck!
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2088
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:04 pm quote
12 pinners, that's my guess.....
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8067
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:59 pm quote
Re: 62 GL: First Bodywork adventure
Great project!
chandlerman wrote:
- Some Hammer & Dolly & Slap stick fun on the legshield (wish me luck!)

Fixed that for you.... check out Restolad for use of the slap stick. I made one and it's a godsend for the very amateur bodyworker.

https://youtu.be/TwA3PDmd1Ww

Plus some work on legshields

https://youtu.be/d-RrS7jj0WQ
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2238
Location: california
Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:23 am quote
A certain wideframe that just came back from the media blaster...
Few minor holes I will need to spot weld up.
Show me the way!
🙂



Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8151
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:40 am quote
Ouch!
Looks somewhat familiar, but yours looks worse and Chandler's much better. What are your plans, weld in a new floor?

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2749
Location: London UK
Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:57 am quote
There is an opportunity developing here. Any thoughts on "extreme patina" ?
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5809
Location: So Cal
Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:53 am quote
What’s the Italian word for “pasta strainer”?
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3176
Location: Nashville
Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:08 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
What’s the Italian word for “pasta strainer”?
I'd look it up but I'm too busy feeling all the love!

Of course, with all the pasta strainer floorboards in this thread already, we could start our own Italian restaurant.
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2238
Location: california
Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:45 am quote
Quote:
Ouch!
Looks somewhat familiar, but yours looks worse and Chandler's much better. What are your plans, weld in a new floor?
full plan TBD.
Hiding in my secret lair practicing my various skills as I decide.
Quote:
There is an opportunity developing here. Any thoughts on "extreme patina" ?
I love the look of silicone bronze brazed metal.
That gold next to the sheet metal just looks cool to my eye.
One of course would need to have sheet metal to start with - but enough of those pesky details.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWF0zCcXR5A&t=392s

Gas welding would probably be the way to go.
Least amount of heat in to your base metal.

Feels a little like I am showed up at CM1's weding (welding?) as a bridesmaid wearing a white dress (with a really big bow on the bottom). That bow hiding a lot of really big holes in my dress.

But I digress.

Good range of floor board repairs here.
Watching with interest to see how CM tackles.
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2963
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:51 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
A certain wideframe that just came back from the media blaster...
Few minor holes I will need to spot weld up.
Show me the way!
🙂
You cut out the center section and removed the cross braces leaving the floor boards outside the center tunnel? Does this cause the frame to twist and warp and require reinforced braces seat to fork tunnel to keep the frame straight while doing that?
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2238
Location: california
Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:57 am quote
Quote:
You cut out the center section and removed the cross braces leaving the floor boards outside the center tunnel? Does this cause the frame to twist and warp and require reinforced braces seat to fork tunnel to keep the frame straight while doing that?
Last post on this as I need to quit being lazy and post on my own thread.
My center was so far gone - any twisting would already have occurred.
I hacked it out the rest of the way so when they media blast - they could do the tunnel really nicely.

On my list of considerations - a structural access panel down the center - allowing full paint on the inner tunel and wiring access for the future.
🙂.

Back to the regularity scheduled programing here now.
Need for CM1 to figure out how to do filler work and keep posting so I get my nerve up to tackle some body work myself.
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2963
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:01 am quote
I'm also soaking all this body work in. Some day I'll get the courage to do both body repair and paint. Great content from everyone on this thread lately.
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2238
Location: california
Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:47 am quote
Couple of suggestions for wire wheels.
That may be the fastest manner for your floorboards.
I've also seen these - found them interesting.
not for any large jobs by all accounts - but looks like they can do the trick for small or hard to reach areas.
Amazon has a few other versions as well.
Anyone tried these?




Edit - highest ranking one on Amazon - looks cooler also - so there's that

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