Modern Vespa

Dropping the needle from KLJ-1st to JLJ-1st made a huge difference in cleaning up 1/4-3/8 throttle.

Sadly, the 360 camera decided to misbehave and only record intermittently and out the rear lens, so no video tonight, but I will say this thing is killer.

I got to open it up at one point and the results were impressive. Naturally, my speedo wasn't working, but my tach was and it hit 8,000 in 4th and was still climbing when I had to shut it down. According to my gearing calc, that's 82 MPH and it felt pretty damn fast based on the wind, so probably pretty accurate.

I'll get the speedo sorted and re-test. Plus, I'm going to weld in bungs for EGT and AFR. I'm going to have to run an under-plug CHT with the head on this thing, which I'm not thrilled about, but I'll get over it.

Good news is that I think this bike is going to live up to my goals of a super-fast Vespa that's not as loud as the BooBadge.

Among other still-pending enhancements, I decided that I wanted to make a 34mm stuffer while still keeping the OG 30mm that came with the reed for some reason.

So made a latex mold from the original, then cast a copy in resin, which I can now open up to 34mm.

I guess that's the break in stage over. Impressive rpm in 4th for a box exhaust. Was any cht working, while this fun was being had?
I'm certainly happy with my kit. Can't believe they're not more popular.
How did the GL feel at speed? I'm going to go with exciting.

The break-in stage was over when the First Start Video ended.

The Malossi box is really impressive. Nobody ever seems to talk about it, but they did good work on the design. Paired with the 125 TD, it holds power out to probably 8,500 RPM's and revved over 11,500 on the stand, but I decided that was enough for now.

Only gauge I had last night was the tach. I'll be adding/repairing the whole set before it goes back on the road: CHT, EGT, Speedo, AFR.

I'm a little annoyed that there is no way to add an in-head CHT on this kit. There's not enough meat, even if I was willing to drill and tap it myself.

Once I'm happy with the carb setup, the AFR will go back on the shelf. It stayed in the Lammy for a long time because that's how long it took for me to be satisfied with it. I'm hoping this setup cycle will be much quicker, though.

I got the CHT, AFR and EGT installed last night. Despite careful measuring, I still managed to kind've screw up bung placement on the AFR and EGT installs.

There's a tiny bit of interference between the AFR and the center stand, and the EGT and floorboard.

The CHT required cutting a slice out of one of the fins on the head to fit the under-plug sensor, but that actually went pretty smoothly once I accepted the inevitable. Still a lot of work, but whatev's. It's in there.

As to the AFR, it has a tiny bit of interference with the centerstand, but I think I can bend my way around that, along with the fact it's temporary. The EGT, I think I'm going to have to cut and relocate. Doh.

Since it's supposed to be pouring rain starting this afternoon, I might have nothing but time for that later.

I did do some very quick on-stand testing last night and the AFR confirmed that I'm still rich across the range. Everything will get leaned up one notch and I'll re-test on the road, but all signs are good right now.

And my speedo is dead. I killed it, but it was always hard to read in daylight, so I'm not too broken up over it. New speedo will be here tomorrow. Same one I have in the BooBadge & VBB, so I know it works and will be readable in daylight. Only $40, too--price has dropped since I bought the previous two.

Assuming I can work around my afore-mentioned sensor issues, I'll probably try for a quick test ride before the weather closes in. Maybe I'll even get the camera to work right this time.

So between the GL, the Boobadge, the VBB, and the Oi-L! which is your fav for a daily donut run? .

Thoughts - You need to do a wideframe for your next build.

That's like asking a parent to pick their favorite child. They usually know which one is their least favorite (the one who's in trouble), but after that it gets difficult.

I expect that the GL is going to be the long-term winner for that question. Fast enough I can jump on the highway for the couple miles and race off the line, but not stupid-loud and trying to kill me.

For longer trips, the Oi! takes it in a walk. It just eats up the miles at high speeds like no Vespa ever will.

The Boo-Badge would probablyl be my one true love for city riding if I could get the noise level down.

The VBB is fun for dumb twisty riding, but not actually all that practical, especially with the too-short gearing of a 10" transmission on 8"s.

Meanwhile, the Sprint and Stella sit in their prospective corners thinking of possible better days to come and feeling sad.... Kidding of course, you only have so much time to work on scoots...and Winter is coming. Ride while you can.

The Stella has been on my "I gotta remember to sell that thing this weekend" list for at least two months and I have an agreement in principle to sell the Sprint to a buddy in exchange for a project Lambretta Riverside and some cash whenever I'm ready for it.

Of course, that same buddy convinced me at a party last weekend that we should build dirt bike Vespas, because there's apparently a dirt track that runs along the Nachez Trace, and the Stella would be perfect for that.

And unless there's snow on the ground, it just doesn't get cold enough for me to not ride in Nashville.

Truer words...

A primary change would sort that fairly easily, why not get it into the mix by fixing it?

I'm going to...by fixing the gearing on the P200 motor I'm putting in it.

So something is not right with the new motor, but the good news (I guess) is that I don't think it's the top end. The first thing that happened was that the reed block mounting bolts started coming loose, which caused it to basically be air-leaky.

At the same time, I went to start it and it squeaked when I kicked it over, like maybe a seal was rubbing on something.

So I fixed that, but now it wants to die at idle and seems like something is dragging the motor to a stop. This happens in neutral as well as coasting with the clutch in while moving, so it's not in the gearbox. It also pushes without issue when the motor is not running.

I pulled the flywheel and looked at the fly side seal and it looks fine, which takes me to the clutch side seal. I forgot to test if the clutch breather is pulsing when the motor is running, so I'll do that next, but as it currently stands, I'm probably going to have to open it up to figure out what's going on.

At this point, I'm thinking it might be time to bite the bullet and pull the trigger on some new cases. I can get LML cases from SIP for under $500. I just don't know that I can justify a thousand bucks for the Malossi cases. I'm sure they're nice, but the LML cases will work just fine, especially since I'm not going to be porting them for this build.

I've got the cart loaded up at SIP, just working through the Seven Stages of SIP before I pull the trigger.

Anyways, that's what's up. Meh.

But the Malossi cases are sooooo nice and have the extra meat around the cylinder base. Just saying.

I got mine from Scooter Mercato. They would get to you before the SIP order!

Usually, I'd agree with you, but I SM order from Monday still isn't here, unless it was last-miled by US Mail and I need to go check the box again.

And since I said Screw Fedex, UPS has been getting me 2-3 day turnaround from both SIP and Scooter-Center lately.

And it's not that I don't dig the Malossi cases, but for this build, I don't need the extra meat, and even if I did, I can add it myself and keep the $500.

I thought that SIP were making their own largeframe cases now, too, that were also at that $500 price point, but they only do smallie cases.

I haven't hit the order button yet, in part because I want to review the lands on the free gears one more time (I had a couple gear jumps) and also just to make sure there's nothing else I might need/want while I'm acting like money grows on trees.

And here's the mystery squeak.

Crank rubbing on a seal?

Just poking around this build and wanted to respond to orwell84's question regarding crank rebuilding. A 20T press is more than enough. All cranks I rebuilt required about 5T force (as observed on the press dial gauge).

Vespa crank webs, at the pin hole, are narrow (say half of that you'd see on comparable Jap two stroke cranks) so there is very little force required. The narrow webs also are problematic because it's very easy for the pin to go in slightly crooked. The press assembly has to be straight for this reason and cheap assemblies are anything but. So the hardest part of the rebuild is truing the webs after the assembly. Part of the challenge is because you are limited where you can hit the webs. I have found, also, that vespa cranks are very soft so lead hammers are best. Even copper can dent these crank webs. The second part of the challenge is that these thin crank webs move around too easily and will go back to out of true overnight! I'm going to make an assembly jig that will align webs during pressing to make truing simpler endeavour. But since vespa cranks have two different diameter webs even this seemingly simple job is complicated!

Sorry to hear You are having issues with your new build. That squeak is definitely odd… almost like a whistle, as if its sucking air through a tiny hole.

For cases I understand the dilemma. Those Malossi cases are fantasmic! But yeah…double the cost of the LML. Worth it IMHO, but if the juice cant be squeezed, then the cost effective option will be okilydokily.

PMF, thanks for the insights on crank rebuilds. Definitely validates my decision not to mess around with one I hadn't thought about a whistle. Maybe it was whistling at the reed base where it was loose, because it's no longer doing it. That doesn't explain why the motor seems to be dragging.

I guess I need to get off my ass and go take a look at it.

And to add insult to injury, I didn't mention it, but when I walked in the workshop this morning, it'd leaked fuel onto the floor after I left the tap on overnight by accident. This bike is definitely not ready for its vacation to end.

This reminds me of the whistle the Spanish had. I agree I think it is a leak below the carb. In the case of the Spanish, I had forgotten the fiber washer, which were often discarded on the P200 but is requisite on the 180. I know your set up with reed is different but that is where I would look for sure.

The whistle went away after I tightened the manifold back down, so I think GL nailed it with the diagnosis.

Now, though, I think I've just flat-out lost confidence in these cases. They've definitely seen some things, to the point that I'd rather buy some $450 cases than blow up another $1,200 worth of crank+top end, probably at a really inopportune time.

Thank you for the feedback. I have a gazillion things I could do with a 20t press, crank rebuilding being one. Might be worth it for more expensive cranks.

I agree with the comments about the Malossi cases. I only bought mine because it is for a 200 engine, because a good 200 case is harder to find. For a small block engine, I wouldn't buy the Malossi case and think LML cases are quite good, especially if you are going reed. Whatever the shortcomings of the LML engines, the cases and gear sets don't seem to be among them. I considered going with a real reed manifold and block on my 187 engine, but I was able get it working well enough with the stock reed block…eventually.

Chandlerman, if you get the chance, could you post a pic of your instrumentation to satisfy my gauge fetish?

This is where I'm about now, too. Especially since I can add meat to the cases myself if I decide it's necessary. LOL! They're all ad-hoc at the moment. Mostly stuck to the legshield with magnets. I'll share a proper picture once they're actually mounted, though.

In the meantime, I'll post up a pic of the Lammy here in a bit. I'm going back and forth on a SIP speedo since I'm about to give them another pile of money. Maybe that's where the savings between the Malossi & LML cases is meant to land.

Mine blew the big end bearing. And that was squealing and dragging to a stop. 11,000 rpm is a lot for a px. Yours can't have done more than 100 miles. Definitely take the head off for a look.

Malossi cases are worth the extra. If you tune this it will definitely need them.

The magic ingredient in aftermarket engine cases is silica, which is seemingly non-existent in standard Vespa cases. The silica keeps cases from warping permanently and moving around during heat cycles. Sadly almost all vintage engines I see now have warped cases. I've even had the pleasure of seemingly straight cases leak when the engine is cooling down.

I don't remember this being a problem 30 years ago when average PX was 10-15 years old. But another 30 years worth of heat cycles is starting to show. Even the 2005 PX North American imports are becoming a challenge to keep from leaking.

That's an excellent point about the difference in metallic composition of the new Malossi cases versus older cases and it had me leaning back to splurging for the Malossi cases most of the day yesterday. I have Quattrini cases in the BooBadge after destroying the OG cases, and the manufacturing quality is amazing, and the Malossi's are probably pretty similar.

But then I had a realization: My motors tend to wear out the cases in three to five years, max. These cases have only been mine for three years and they're already done, it seems.

So it's basically a wear part for me--many people can get more years out of a cruciform than I get out of cases.

I'm not trying to push in into getting the Malossi but I'm wondering if you would automatically get a longer lifespan out of the higher quality case? 🤷🏼 I already had a virgin Piaggio case set for my 221 build but decided to get the Malossi. I'm glad I did. I was very impressed with the quality compared to the stock cases. Assembly is easier too. I love all the reinforced areas.

That's the real question, isn't it. I don't think we have the data to determine longevity at this point, but I agree that the quality is absolutely better.

One thing I noticed about malossi cases, first time I picked them up, the weight of empty malossi cases felt about the same as stock ones with the entire gearbox fitted. Thought to myself, these ain't going to break easy.

Well, let's all keep nudging him then. If the Malossi cases have a weakness, CM is sure to find it.

I am now back on the Malossi cases. Plus Scooter Mercato has them in stock...

DO IT.

I did it.

I hope he ordered the engine cases and not the giant psyonic space squid

You will not regret it

Actually, I ordered both. You probably didn't even know Scooter Mercato *had* giant space squids.

Now I know, and knowing is half the battle

I tore down the GL motor tonight and it wasn't good. I'm glad new cases are on the way.

The top end was just fine. It had a head leak, which surprised me a little since it's an inset head, but zero issues with the cylinder, head, or piston.

The crank, though, had started to work loose at the webs and was running the cheek of the case. It's a good thing I quit when I did with it, though. Now I need to find a shop than can press it the couple millimeters back into place for me. Shouldn't be too hard, just annoying.

New cases arrive tomorrow, so I'll have to play hookie from work at some point if I can get the crank pressed somewhere quick tomorrow during the day.