Thu May 13, 2021 3:32 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
Thu May 13, 2021 3:32 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Yes, 57 MHR on a 57 crank for now. This is a "one notch above a bolt on" build to get running.

At some point, I'm going to convert to long stroke and reed, big carb, etc., but not this point.
Not much can be done for the set up on 57. Just put on as many base gaskets as you can while keeping the squish at not more than 1.2mm . Put the head on a belt sander if you need more. When you get it on a 60 (or 62) it will get more interesting.

Inlet 120/90 would not be too much.
Fri May 14, 2021 8:34 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Fri May 14, 2021 8:34 am linkquote
Bad news...I didn't consider that I needed a non-EFL cruciform, so I'm on hold for assembly until I can get my hands on one of those. So, in the meantime, I'll probably spend a little more time on the inlet than I might have otherwise planned.

On the bright side, I think that I now have everything I need to get the GL project across the line, other than the tail light lens gasket, which isnt' exactly a showstopper part. I ordered a set of Malossi base gaskets, so I should be able to make the most of what I've got for now.

And, yes, 62mm is the eventual crank goal, Jack, but that's going to be like $1,500 bucks worth of go-fast parts to get to that level (crank, reed block, reed, manifold, carb, exhaust), so it'll have to wait for a bit.
Fri May 14, 2021 8:54 am

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1744
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1744
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Fri May 14, 2021 8:54 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Bad news...I didn't consider that I needed a non-EFL cruciform, so I'm on hold for assembly until I can get my hands on one of those. So, in the meantime, I'll probably spend a little more time on the inlet than I might have otherwise planned.

On the bright side, I think that I now have everything I need to get the GL project across the line, other than the tail light lens gasket, which isnt' exactly a showstopper part. I ordered a set of Malossi base gaskets, so I should be able to make the most of what I've got for now.

And, yes, 62mm is the eventual crank goal, Jack, but that's going to be like $1,500 bucks worth of go-fast parts to get to that level (crank, reed block, reed, manifold, carb, exhaust), so it'll have to wait for a bit.
Are you going to measure the opening and give a BTDC and ATDC number? I was reading a maximum about 140 BTDC and 60 ATDC for a total of 200 of opening.
Fri May 14, 2021 1:34 pm

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Fri May 14, 2021 1:34 pm linkquote
No intake timings yet, but I did get some VERY preliminary port timing measurements. For this iteration, squish is going to demand a 1.5mm base gasket, which which give me timings of
116 TD / 139 ED / 31 BD

which can't be right. Just...cant. right now, though, it's Wine Time, so everyone will just have to wait until tomorrow to see how it all turns out.

I also drilled out the passage from the float bowl to the carb, cleaned a bunch of congealed oil off the cases, and dug through my absurd stash of spare cables and pulled together a full set for the GL.


Whiteboard walls FTW

Fri May 14, 2021 2:43 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7777
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7777
Location: San Francisco
Fri May 14, 2021 2:43 pm linkquote
I get:
transfer: 119.2
Exhaust: 181.8
Blowdown: 31.3



Fri May 14, 2021 3:16 pm

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Fri May 14, 2021 3:16 pm linkquote
This stuff should not be done 1) while drinking; or 2) on a phone.

Re-ran on the Lambretta Teile calc and now think it should be 184/122/31. Still not optimal, but better than what I fat-fingered before.

Good catch, Patrick! Thanks!
Fri May 14, 2021 4:29 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7777
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7777
Location: San Francisco
Fri May 14, 2021 4:29 pm linkquote
Also, I would use a degree wheel for the port timings instead of the distance from TDC, unless you have a good fixed micrometer to measure it.

you can also use this to go to and from degree and distance:
http://oopsclunkthud.com/tuning/PistonPosition.php?bore=68&stroke=57&Lcr=110&theta0=0&thetan=180&thetastep=1&Submit=Calculate
Sat May 15, 2021 3:53 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Sat May 15, 2021 3:53 am linkquote
I do have a fixed micrometer I can use, I just usually go with the calipers because it's easier.

Re-running my calc's on a real computer and correcting for the expected 1.5mm base gasket (for 1.2 or 1.3mm of squish) vs. the 0.5mm gasket I used to measure , I come up with:
TD 127
ED 188
BD 30

Which actually seems quite reasonable for what I'm building. Here's my actual spreadsheet for those playing along in the home game.

And in even better news, my order yesterday from Scooter Mercato is already out for delivery, so Dave rocked it out once again

I mean, sure, it helps that I live basically one city away now, but that still makes me happy.



Sat May 15, 2021 8:22 am

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7777
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7777
Location: San Francisco
Sat May 15, 2021 8:22 am linkquote
if you measure out all the port window sizes and angles, I can run them for you in EngMod2T

even without the full simulation, it lets you balance the port time areas so they are all working together. Here's an example from my Imola.



Sun May 16, 2021 1:51 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
Sun May 16, 2021 1:51 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
I do have a fixed micrometer I can use, I just usually go with the calipers because it's easier.

Re-running my calc's on a real computer and correcting for the expected 1.5mm base gasket (for 1.2 or 1.3mm of squish) vs. the 0.5mm gasket I used to measure , I come up with:
TD 127
ED 188
BD 30

Which actually seems quite reasonable for what I'm building. Here's my actual spreadsheet for those playing along in the home game.

And in even better news, my order yesterday from Scooter Mercato is already out for delivery, so Dave rocked it out once again

I mean, sure, it helps that I live basically one city away now, but that still makes me happy.
Not sure how this was measured but the distances from the deck are a little shorter than the normal virgin MHR. Transfers 45.5 and exhaust 31.5 are more usual. If it's had work done then could be less.
On the expected measurements with PBT 0.5mm below it's 185/123/31 which is low but if timed and jetted well with a good expansion, will still go way too fast for a sane person on that old frame.
Sun May 16, 2021 2:11 pm

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Sun May 16, 2021 2:11 pm linkquote
Any variances in the measurements are my own fault. I feel like my digital calipers are not reading correctly.

Anyhow, I got the motor buttoned up and fired up briefly on the stand this afternoon. The pipe don't want to fit with the stand, which is strange because I've run it on my stand before, and the jetting is beyond off because I was rushing and couldn't find the jets I wanted.

Tomorrow it'll go in my Sprint so I have something to ride, and I'll work on the jetting, check timing, etc. then.

I shot video of the first start, but it's more like an entry into America's Stupidest First Start Videos, so I may wait until it's a little further along to share something.
Sun May 16, 2021 9:31 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2165
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2165
Location: Florence, OR
Sun May 16, 2021 9:31 pm linkquote
I shot video of the first start, but it's more like an entry into America's Stupidest First Start Videos....[/quote]

Wait - I thought I won that title already!

Good job keeping at it!
Sun May 16, 2021 9:32 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2165
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2165
Location: Florence, OR
Sun May 16, 2021 9:32 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
I shot video of the first start, but it's more like an entry into America's Stupidest First Start Videos....
Wait - I thought I won that title already!

Good job keeping at it!
Sun May 16, 2021 10:06 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
Sun May 16, 2021 10:06 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Any variances in the measurements are my own fault. I feel like my digital calipers are not reading correctly.

Anyhow, I got the motor buttoned up and fired up briefly on the stand this afternoon. The pipe don't want to fit with the stand, which is strange because I've run it on my stand before, and the jetting is beyond off because I was rushing and couldn't find the jets I wanted.

Tomorrow it'll go in my Sprint so I have something to ride, and I'll work on the jetting, check timing, etc. then.

I shot video of the first start, but it's more like an entry into America's Stupidest First Start Videos, so I may wait until it's a little further along to share something.
That got finished quick. Where did you set the timing and jetting? Being more powerful, they destroy themselves even quicker than the usual.

Where did the squish end up? And is it a standard Malossi head?
Mon May 17, 2021 2:54 pm

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Mon May 17, 2021 2:54 pm linkquote
So the motor is together and back in the Sprint for the time being. Squish came in at 1.15mm (edit: I had this as 2.15), so I'll go with that. Timing is the SIP variable and it's set at 18 BTDC at 7,000 RPM's.

The jetting needs work. I drilled out the float passage on the 24/24 and am running it with autolube for a change. The richest idle jet in my bin was a 55-160, and that's way too lean. I have richer idle jets in the VBB and Stella, so I'll steak one of those until I get more ordered.

Main stack is 160-BE4-125. I'll steal a 120 air corrector from one of the other bikes, and also a richer main before I do more than the ride around the block this afternoon.

On the bright side, this thing is already fast, and the tuning is barely started. It's also quieter than I'm used to with the Sito+(?) exhaust that came with the motor.

Lots more to do, but at least I'm rolling again so I can get back to the GL.

Last edited by chandlerman on Tue May 18, 2021 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Tue May 18, 2021 4:36 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Tue May 18, 2021 4:36 am linkquote
As threatened, here's a little video.

Naturally, there's always something. The auto-lube pump is intermittently leaking a little bit, which explains all the oil caked on the motor when I got it, at least. New pump o-ring time, which will be half an hour of disassembly and re-assembly for a ten second part swap. Assuming I have an o-ring, of course.

But having had a chance to ride it a little bit yesterday, I'm pretty happy with it even in its still weak state. It's not as fast as the Stella motor, but definitely a fun ride already.

I'll get some action footage today or tomorrow, but for now, here's the first re-start.

The second video section is shaky because I had the camera sitting on the ramp to my workshop along with the motor and...well...physics. Another lesson learned.

Tue May 18, 2021 2:40 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
Tue May 18, 2021 2:40 pm linkquote
Definitely runs. You weren't joking about the pilot jet, way too weak. Don't ride it out of pushing home distance!

AC120 BE3 140MJ to get going with. I would use a 55/100 pilot until I knew it was too big. And 2.5mm drilling and no air filter. Bellows to frame only. 24/24 will be at its limit trying to feed that but luckily you have the Sito to hold it back.

Squish and timing are ok to run but I would give the head a skim to get 1mm off.
Tue May 18, 2021 2:59 pm

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Tue May 18, 2021 2:59 pm linkquote
2.15 was a typo. It was actually 1.15, so I skimmed the head with nothing but my keyboard.

I'll swap the jetting tomorrow. I have 120-BE3-140 in the box. I know I have richer idle jets in other bikes, so I'll steal the richest one I have to start, whatever that is.

Right now, it's so lean it will only start, with the choke out, even when warmed up a little.
Tue May 18, 2021 4:04 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2315
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2315
Location: california
Tue May 18, 2021 4:04 pm linkquote
Hahaha - just caught up - ending with the video.
One of your best.
Sounds good!
Must be nice to be back on the road.

BTW - Patric - very cool software.
Tue May 18, 2021 4:05 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3177
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3177
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue May 18, 2021 4:05 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
2.15 was a typo. It was actually 1.15, so I skimmed the head with nothing but my keyboard.

I'll swap the jetting tomorrow. I have 120-BE3-140 in the box. I know I have richer idle jets in other bikes, so I'll steal the richest one I have to start, whatever that is.

Right now, it's so lean it will only start, with the choke out, even when warmed up a little.
Just an FYI to give you a jetting comparison, I am currently at 100/be3/128mj (0.78) with a 48/140 (2.91) idle on my 177 with 0.8mm squish. I think my idle should be a custom 50/140 (2.8) to get it between the too rich 52/140 and too lean 55/160 or 48/140. I'm also at the top limit of 24/24 capabilities which has been what took me so long to get jetting narrowed down.

Timing is also currently set to 10 degrees @ 8000 with the 0.8mm squish.
Fri May 21, 2021 2:15 pm

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Fri May 21, 2021 2:15 pm linkquote
I played with the jetting a little bit. It wouldn't even begin to rev out on the 140, so I walked my way down to a 120-BE3-132 main stack and it's not "there" yet, but it's at least rideable. I want to try a richer atomizer, because it'll get into good power at one point, at which it goes like crazy, but for the most part, it's still pretty sluggish.

The idle is still a mess, but I'll get there. The fact that I was able to ride it to go get gas was a big step forward

Also, I had never dealt with the rust in the gas tank, so I threw some nuts n' bolts n' nails in it, shook it around for a while to break off the worst of the rust, and am now hitting it with electrolysis to get the rest.

I'm not sure if it's physics or chemistry in action, but it's still pretty cool...




nasty

Fri May 21, 2021 6:42 pm

El Presidente Del Topo Chico
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4969
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
El Presidente Del Topo Chico
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4969
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri May 21, 2021 6:42 pm linkquote
I had great success with electrolysis on the SS180 tank. I suspect you will be pleased.
Fri May 21, 2021 10:42 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2315
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2315
Location: california
Fri May 21, 2021 10:42 pm linkquote
love this.
Had just watch this guy repair some vintage machinery with a giant kiddy pool electrolysis cleaning.
Great how to if anyone is interested here as well.
CM - are you finished with it yet?
Sat May 22, 2021 3:17 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Sat May 22, 2021 3:17 am linkquote
birdsnest wrote:
I had great success with electrolysis on the SS180 tank. I suspect you will be pleased.
It was bubbling happily away last night, which I took as a good sign.

Here's how I'm doing it:
1) cleaned the tank out as best I could. I threw some random bits of nuts, bolts, screws, etc. in and shook it around until I got tired. That produced a nice slurry of rust.
2) Washed that out.
3) Filled the tank with hot water, then added Sodium Carbonate (aka. Soda Ash) which you can get at the hardware or pool supply store
4) Positive terminal of a battery charger went on my sacrificial anode, in this case, a couple of large nuts hung on a wire
5) Negative terminal onto the tank
6) Plug in and wait

I'll head out and see how it's coming in a bit. It bubbles and foams a fair amount and overflowed the tank. I'd set it up in a large bowl just to keep the tank level, so I got lucky with it also catching the overflow.

I guess at some point I should run the cables and wiring. Cables should take no time at all, other than I need to shorten the shifter cables a few inches. Wiring is going to be adapting a P200 harness that JVB sent me with the motor. That may be a little more interesting, but not enough to slow me down.

Also, if anyone is holding or has a domestic source for a tail light lens (the SS 180/GL one, like in the picture), I'd really appreciate a pointer. I've tried all the Usual Suspects and they're all backordered. I'd really like to avoid spending $30 on shipping, then waiting a month for a $10 part if I can.


This one, but just the lens. I have the housing, even if mine isn't this pretty.

Sat May 22, 2021 6:47 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Sat May 22, 2021 6:47 am linkquote
That wiring harness isn't going to work, so I'll have to order one. Meh.

I did run all the cables, which is a much less impressive accomplishment when you're doing it in a bare frame, but they're in there.

The gas tank is bubbling along. At some point I'll have to drain some water and see how it's coming.

And I wire-wheeled the centerstand and mounting hardware in prep for paint. That process was disrupted when my wife came in the backyard with a lost dog, though, so now we're at the vet getting it scanned did a chip to hopefully reunite it with its people.

Never a dull moment at the ol' Casa Chandlerman.



Sat May 22, 2021 7:41 am

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2511

 
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2511

Sat May 22, 2021 7:41 am linkquote
Wow Chandlerman took me a bit but made it through the topic, what a ride. The paint looks great and really good without the trim on the cowls. Really hard to believe that piston can be in that bad a shape.
Sat May 22, 2021 9:56 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Sat May 22, 2021 9:56 am linkquote
Thanks, Lynn! I'm down to the final push now.

And an update on the dog, its name is Kino and we found the owner. It had gotten out of the owner's house earlier today. The vet's office tracked down the original rescue agency, who contacted the person who adopted him. They'd re-homed him to the current owner, who was frantically searching, so Kino is now home with his people and I've gotten on with my Saturday.
Sat May 22, 2021 10:28 am

Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 658
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
 
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 658
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Sat May 22, 2021 10:28 am linkquote
Good call on the electrolosis rust removal. I've used this process in the past, although it has been awhile. Bubbling is good!! Let it run a day or 2, then rinse it out very well to inspect. If it needs another go, just refill and go.

The procees depends on proximity between the anode (-) and cathode (+), so sometimes there will be spots missed that are furthest away from the cathode. AT first glance it may still seem rusty, but there will be a 'sludge' of rusty goo all around
Sat May 22, 2021 2:25 pm

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Sat May 22, 2021 2:25 pm linkquote
I'll see where the tank is at in the morning. That'll be basically 36 hours in.

I've realized I need a laundry list of rubber bits, plus the wiring harness. Sadly, I think I'm either going to have to order from scooter center or multiple US sites, and no one has my tail light lens domestically right now.

Even so, I'm getting excited to get this puppy on there road.
Sat May 22, 2021 3:42 pm

Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 658
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
 
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 658
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Sat May 22, 2021 3:42 pm linkquote
I've placed 2 orders with SCK over the past 2 months. Both orders arrived here in Oregon within 8 days. Historically I've had good luck getting orders quickly from SCK, much faster than SIP.

You're in the home stretch!
Mon May 24, 2021 7:53 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Mon May 24, 2021 7:53 am linkquote
Well...I ordered what are hopefully the last two orders for parts for this project last night. One from Scooter Center, who had both the wiring harness and tail light lens I need, among other things.

The rest of it, mostly rubber bits, came from Scooters Originali, so assuming they both get here without issue and the tank is suitably de-rusted, I'll be rolling soon.

Some areas of the gas tank are actually getting to be rust-free, so now I think it's mostly a matter of staying after it.


Taking progress where I can get it.

Mon May 24, 2021 8:05 am

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2511

 
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2511

Mon May 24, 2021 8:05 am linkquote
I just looked back again at the first start, after chuckling when I seen exhaust fall to the ground, what was telling you that the pilot getting was too lean other than Jacks consultion reassuring your thoughts? ( learning).
Fri May 28, 2021 2:14 pm

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Fri May 28, 2021 2:14 pm linkquote
Today was finishing off the cabling (getting everything seated, tophats on, etc.) and then installing the wiring harness.

I also finally got around to replacing the column lock, which required much drilling because the old lock was basically frozen into a sold chunk of brass.

The wiring harness was, as Vespa electrical work is wont to be, a bit of a pain in the butt, even though it was a new BGM harness. I also don't seem to have a working BA-20D bulb for the headlamp, or a bulb base for the GL headlight. So those are on order, along with shim washers for the levers. I expect those will arrive on Tuesday or Wednesday. In the meantime, it'll be grabbing the correct bulbs, then getting the cowls on and working out the turn signals. I have a switch for the left side of the headset, but will have to do custom wiring to make it all actually work, I think.

I'm thinking that I'm going to use the bullet lights I originally picked up to prototype this on the VBB on the rear, mounted on the base of the seat and some micro lights under the headset for the front. More on that later, though.

All-in-all, lots of progress



Sun May 30, 2021 4:52 pm

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Sun May 30, 2021 4:52 pm linkquote
I spent a little time for getting the motor set up today since it was damn near perfect riding weather today.

I put my Polini Venturi on it, but was too rich pretty much across the board with a 120 AC, so I went to a 140/BE3/132 stack and that cleaned things up nicely. The motor returns to idle wonderfully, bit I may still richen up the idle jet a little.

Ones thing I'm really noticing is the difference in gearing between the 200 and 150. I keep wanting to upshift too soon, but it's really nice to cruise at lower RPM's, so I'll get used to it soon enough.

The electrical is all in and working. This morning, I drew up the wiring diagram to add turn signals, so I'll get that prototyped and built in the next few days.

My battery charger died, so the fuel tank electrolysis paused. I also had a realization that could have dramatically shortened the time in that process: wire brush on a 12" drill bit extender. So obvious in hindsight. I probably spent more on electricity than the parts to get missy of the rust out that way. Oh, well; live and learn.

But, yeah...getting close...


So obvious in hindsight

Sun May 30, 2021 9:08 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
Sun May 30, 2021 9:08 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
I put my Polini Venturi on it, but was too rich pretty much across the board with a 120 AC, so I went to a 140/BE3/132 stack and that cleaned things up nicely. The motor returns to idle wonderfully, bit I may still richen up the idle jet a little.
The first half of the throttle maybe great with this jetting but the first time it's held at WOT it will seize. At this stage of the set up the Venturi and the AC120 are correct. The rest of the jets will take time to get right.
Mon May 31, 2021 4:00 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Mon May 31, 2021 4:00 am linkquote
Thanks, Jack. If I go back to the 120 AC, I can easily walk the main down a jet or two, and that should be fine.

The mid-range is where I'm struggling. It just seems too rich with the BE3, unless it's actually too lean and I've just lost the ability to tell the difference. That's easy enough to test, I guess; I can throw in a BE1 and see if it's better or worse, just for my own sanity.

I had the 120 stack out for a short (5-6 mile) ride yesterday, most of it at about 50 MPH, lots of up and down hills, so lots of bouncing between high end of 3rd and low end of 4th, because 4th just wouldn't pull up the hills or really rev out, which may have just been the main being too rich. The CHT never broke 200f through any of it, though, so I tried the 140 AC and it seems like a much better fit overall.

I also went back this morning and spent some time re-reading the great Atomizer Thread, which really only get good at the point I linked, because prior to that, it's backwards.

And, of course, there's always the Mystery Exhaust, which may just not be a good exhaust, but which isn't so bad as to prevent basic performance and which I'm sticking with for the time being. At least it's nice n' quiet.

I'll try to get some comparative videos today or tomorrow. Weather should be nice, but today is already looking kind've busy and my mother-in-law is coming in tomorrow from the UK for a visit, so who knows how that will affect my time.
Mon May 31, 2021 2:43 pm

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Mon May 31, 2021 2:43 pm linkquote
I went back to the 120AC/BE3 with a 125 main and it was MUCH better. Ran nice n' cool, revved cleanly up past 7,000 RPM's, and was pulling through 60 mph in 4th when I ran out of road and had to shut it down.

Once I get a littler more time on there motor, I'll push it harder, but for now, I think I'm going to just let it be so I don't blow it up for no good reason.

And back in the shop, the gas tank is just about finished electrolyzing, I'll check it in the morning, but it was looking pretty good this morning, so it has to be close.

I also fabricated a bracket for rear turn signals for a couple of bullet lights I already had. I ran the wires and hooked up the switch, but couldn't quite bring myself to drill the headset yet, but it's all wired up and blinks like it's supposed to.

I don't have a sheet metal bender, so it could be a little straighter, but it gets there job done and I'm happy with it for now.




There's a couple washers under the bracket to protect the wires and the paint.

Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:43 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:43 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
I went back to the 120AC/BE3 with a 125 main and it was MUCH better. Ran nice n' cool, revved cleanly up past 7,000 RPM's, and was pulling through 60 mph in 4th when I ran out of road and had to shut it down.
Almost all jetting issues (won't pull, won't rev, gets hot, stutters, misfires etc.), are because it is too lean. When its really too rich its so obvious that it can't be anything else.

AC120 BE3 MJ125 sounds like correct. MJ might be a bit small....... but its a 57mm on a 57mm with a Sito. 52/140 pilot is the correct region but might need more rides to confirm.
Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:08 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3177
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3177
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:08 am linkquote
Hey Chandlerman, just curious what the squish and timing is set to on this?
Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:44 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:44 am linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
Hey Chandlerman, just curious what the squish and timing is set to on this?
Squish is 1.15mm and timing is 18 BTDC at 7,000 RPM's.

Jack, I'll confirm the 125 and try a 128 (or whatever is one jet up from where I'm at now) just to be on the safe side.

The idle is a little boggy, but that'll come with time, as you said.

I declared victory on the gas tank, cleaned it out, and put a new fast flow tap in it.

Now I'm getting to "fun" stuff like discovering the pin that holds the cable clamp to the rear brake pedal is too short, so I get to deal with that now.

And the oil tank for the cowl arrived, so that can go in and then I'm getting really close to swapping in the motor.


Fuel tank is good enough for me.

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