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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
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UTC quote
Must be feelig good to ride now. 24 mpg says there is a rich issue and that's probably still the pilot jet. How many turn s on the airscrew? And does it idle immediately after one of these highway runs?
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@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
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I should have specified that the 24 MPG was from my Parthenon run, which was with the too-rich needle. I'll see how it does with the current changes.

The 52 is about as lean as I think the pilot wants to go. It returned to idle pretty well with the CHT at 305f. It dropped to about 1,800 RPM's, then drifted down from there over maybe five seconds.

Some audio/video would probably be helpful. I'll see what I can gather next time I'm out and about.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
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Not a lot of riding, but the State of Tennessee issued me the new title for the original VIN on my GL, so it's now both fully legal and officially mine.

Other than that, between being under the weather, busy, and hot out, not a lot of activity on the scooter front for me the past week or so.
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Lucky
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Lucky
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So after several jetting and needle changes, I finally have at least one setup for highway work that seems to be stable and good on temps. I'm running a 55 Idle, 168 main, and KLK, 3rd clip for the jetting. Timing is still 18 BTDC at 7k RPM's

I had to run down to South Nashville today and took the highway the whole way. 55-65 MPH, so 1/2 to 3/4 throttle mostly, with a little bit of WOT. Temps settled in at 299 fully heat soaked and the max temp was 305. I hit 75 MPH, but only briefly and was still climbing, albeit slowly, when I got to my exit.

There's still a little bit of a soft spot at 1/4 throttle, but I have a whole bunch of J taper needles that I haven't tried yet (because I didn't have them marked on my needle chart, so I forgot I had them Facepalm emoticon). I'm not sure they're going to get me what I need, but they're worth a shot.
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Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
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UTC quote
Nice temps! Lets see vid of it at full speed. I'm sure it sounds awesome.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
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I haven't actually gotten to full speed yet, but 75 was getting pretty close, I think.

I'll have to figure out something that captures sound. My super-old freebie goPro always sounds like nothin' but wind noise at speed, at that's with the "100 MPH+" enclosure on it.

What's amazing is how well it tracks. I know that part of it is the 11" wheels, but it really feels amazingly stable, even at those speeds. The BGM shocks are a quality product, too.
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Ossessionato
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
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Ossessionato
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
I haven't actually gotten to full speed yet, but 75 was getting pretty close, I think.

I'll have to figure out something that captures sound. My super-old freebie goPro always sounds like nothin' but wind noise at speed, at that's with the "100 MPH+" enclosure on it.

What's amazing is how well it tracks. I know that part of it is the 11" wheels, but it really feels amazingly stable, even at those speeds. The BGM shocks are a quality product, too.
Tape a cotton ball over the mic. I used to do this when video taping bands playing. Really helps cut the highs out of the recording. Wind noise would be considered a high noise here. Should work out for you.
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
I record audio with cell phone inside a sock which is then inside my jacket pocket. Sync it up in edit with the crappy camera audio then re-export with the better audio.
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@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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swiss1939 wrote:
I record audio with cell phone inside a sock which is then inside my jacket pocket. Sync it up in edit with the crappy camera audio then re-export with the better audio.
I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to give it a shot
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Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Ossessionato
@christopher_55934 avatar
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UTC quote
You could get a lapel microphone, and move it down lower out of the wind. I imagine you have the camera up high in the wind.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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I've tried clamping it to both the legshield and handlebars, neither of which seems to work well. I have a helmet mount somewhere, but don't really see that helping the situation.
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Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
I've tried clamping it to both the legshield and handlebars, neither of which seems to work well. I have a helmet mount somewhere, but don't really see that helping the situation.
I have an older gopro also and it has a plug for a standard microphone. I plug in a lapel microphone as the factory microphone doesn't work well. The lapel microphone is on a wire and you can move it wherever you want out of the wind.
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Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Nedminder
@charlieman22 avatar
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UTC quote
tape a cotton ball or pull an old sock over it or what ever - and then attach it to a sidecar.

🙂
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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No idea where I'd find an old sock, but I can probably track down a sidecar
@swiss1939 avatar
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Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
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UTC quote
I would have suggested a dead cat instead of the sock . But i figured you guys would assume the wrong thing...
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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I made a cover out of some foam I had in the workshop and took it out on the road. Wind noise is better and aesthetics are a lot worse, but sound is still just Not Good, which I think is the function of it being a freebie almost ten year old GoPro.

Here's a snippet with the home-made cover. Next, I guess I'll make a foam sleeve for my phone (I have lots of foam ) and try getting the sound that way and sync'ing to the video in post-production. That'll be a new one for me, but I'm always up for a challenge.

This was uphill for a mile at 73-75 MPH. The motor heated up and was hitting 350, so I jumped off at the first exit, but it was also 95 degrees out, whereas yesterday it was only about 80 and temps were fine then.

UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
73mph uphill is not so bad for a box pipe. Sounds like the timing is too much though. Where did the jetting end up?
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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That was with the PM Tuning exhaust, Jack, but the funny thing is that yesterday afternoon I pulled it off and installed a SIP RoadXL I had on the bike prior to the PM. I just couldn't handle the noise any longer.

Jetting on the video clip above was 55 Idle, 168 Main, KLK needle on the 3rd clip.

When you say "too much" timing, I assume you mean too advanced, right?

I also felt like something was "off," with my setup, which certainly could have been (and thus still is) the timing, and I was trying to jet around (i.e. over-richen) the problem rather than fix it.

I started walking the main down with the RoadXL and it's going to end up at a 155 or 152, I'm guessing. I got down as far as 158 last night before I packed it in for the evening and it's still not quite wanting to rev out cleanly. It got to 8,500 RPM's in 3rd, though, which isn't too shabby and about in line with what I was expecting.

I had forgotten how much I like the broad power band of a good box pipe, though. Definitely a lot less downshifting to stay in power on the hills around here, so I'll trade of a horse or two for a setup that's both a little quieter and a better fit with the terrain I ride on.

On the bright side, I put some of that foam on my phone and took a couple recordings and that solved my audio quality problems, so I've got that going for me, at least.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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Today was dialing in the SIP RoadXL. Since it had a bung for an AFR meter, I wired that up and immediately discovered that the stator alone didn't have enough power to drive it. So I added a battery to the bike for the purposes of the test.

I started where I left the jetting last night, 55-152-KLK-3rd clip. And other than the idle, it was just a big "R" on the AFR. At a couple couple points, it got as lean as 10:1 (remember, we're looking for 12.7:1 as peak power and 14.7:1 as Stoichiometric Ideal.

So I figure that I need to lean things out on the needle and main both by 20-25%. Wowza. Fire up Kyajet, play with some settings and determine that what I want is 55-140-KLK-2nd. I started at a 168 Main with the PM Tuning exhaust, if you recall.

Naturally, the only jet I'm missing from like 115-170 is 140, so I tried both the 142 and the 138 and wound up settling on the 138.

And what a difference. The idle was already solid and other than tweaking the air screw an eighth of a turn, I didn't touch it. Ticks along at 12-13:1 at everything from dead cold to 300F. The mix at half throttle was 14:1 at lower RPM's and dropped down to 12-13:1 when cruising at higher RPM's. WOT was 12:1 pretty steady up through 8,000 RPM's in 3rd gear, which had me into the mid-60's MPH-wise. Cylinder temps never got above 290F through any of that, which was pretty good considering it was 95F out, so it had to be over 100 on the pavement.

Thumbs up to the KyaJet tool for being pretty much spot-on with its predictions on how the jetting changes would work, too.

Now, though, I'm wondering...how off was my jetting of the PM Tuning? I'm thinking it had to have been a decent amount, even though I was getting some pretty crazy performance out of it.

Now here's hitch. The RoadXL won't fit with the center stand, and while the side stand works just fine, I just don't like it. I don't trust it to keep the thing wheels-side-down when I park it, especially on a slope, of which there are no shortage here. Not to mention that the tilt made getting gas a real PITA.

As crazy as this is going to sound, I'm contemplating a swap back the the pipe and taking a run at dialing it in with the AFR Meter. I have a bolt-on bung for the PM Tuning pipe, I just need to install it, and If I don't want to listen to the noise, I can always ride the Sprint, which is no slouch in its own right and can actually haul a little bit of stuff to boot with a milk crate on the cargo seat.

Finally, as I said, I gassed up and mileage looks to be about 45 MPG, which seems not outrageous for a bike with a 168 MJ that I've been running up and down highways a lot on that tank.
Relying on a higher power
Relying on a higher power
Predicted change
Predicted change
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Banned
3:5
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UTC quote
is that an O2 sensor?

If so they don't read well on the rich side of things (where 2T almost always are) as there should not be much oxygen. Any oxygen you do read will be from short circuiting or mixing of the fresh charge with the exhaust.

If it's a CO sensor, then all good.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
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It's a Koso, which uses a wideband Bosch O2 sensor with a two stroke adapter. It's officially supported for two strokes and seems pretty accurate from what I can tell. I'll put it in to do tuning, then remove it once things are set up.

I've never seized a motor I set up with it (I find new and different ways to blow up my motors Facepalm emoticon ), so I tend to trust it maybe more than I should.
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Lucky
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Lucky
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Because I'm a masochist and have too much time on my hands, I swapped my exhaust back to the PM Tuning, but added an AFR bung to see how my tuning looked on it. I was quite pleased to discover that my setup exactly matched what the AFR pointed me to.

I may still have a little bit of timing to work through, but the carb is good-to-go.

Oh, and I made a video about out. A long video. With copyright issues that may even keep youtube from putting ads on it, so win-win.

UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
I don't think it sounds that loud. Thought it was a box pipe. Probably just the mic.

Never been a big fan of the AFR meter but definitely the tool for roughing out. If you focus on getting the whole rev range to 12, the rest can be done by feel.

As it is now it sounds good and rich riding around. Take the 11 up to 12 and it will feel really close. And be going faster too.
The very slow running and idle sound awful. Way too lean. 55 is pretty big so probably just the airscrew, although might need less diameter.
The trickiest part is keeping 1/4 and 3/4 linear. Sounds easy but expect you'll be at it a while.
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Hey, nice video!
Offhand I'd say you could REALLY use a welder. My fear is that you'll buy a crappy one and get frustrated, or worse, not know better and make a bunch of awful welds.
The stuff you're spraying requires eye protection. If that gets in your eyes you will maybe spend an afternoon in urgent care like me.
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Addicted
1968 VBB150
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Addicted
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UTC quote
That video was fantastic. Keep em coming
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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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bodgemaster
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UTC quote
Nicely filmed, Chandler. Informative and action-packed. Two thumbs up.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Thanks, everyone!

The video wound up being longer than I was expecting (like...twice as long...), but I couldn't really decide what to cut out, so I may make a couple of excerpts for those who just want to see how stuff is done, not hear me blather on about how to go about it.

While I have my glasses which, if they had side shields would *technically* be considered safety glasses according to OSHA, my proper safety glasses are so scratched up and fogged I can't see through them and I keep forgetting to buy a new pair or two, so I do without. Ospho is good stuff, but definitely *acid* and needs to be handled accordingly.

And I *know* I need a welder, I'm just not quite at a point to pull the trigger on one yet. It'll happen soon enough, though. I'm going to need it when I rebuild the VBB--yeah, that's a thing that's going to happen.

Back on the tuning front, I dropped the jetting down from a 168 to a 165 and went one clip leaner on the needle, then cleaned the idle jet out since I hadn't changed it but something changed there. I haven't had a chance to get it out and ride this week to test it out, though.
Plus it's been pretty hot around here and I'm not a huge fan of the heat. When it's over 100 on the pavement and blazing sun, that's not fun for anyone.

I think that I'm about to hit the sweet spot for the carb and will retard the timing a degree next if the temps are too high on the highway, since being highway-capable is really a requirement for me here. As Jack said, the goal right now is to get the full rev range to 12-13 on the AFR, then I can tweak from there as I see fit.
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Ossessionato
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
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Ossessionato
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
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UTC quote
The sound of that PM pipe takes me right back to the 1980's, and that's a good thing!!
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Well, this thread has been quiet for a while because I was recovering from trying to kill myself getting on they highway.

Today, I finally got back out in the workshop. I installed the nipple for the fuel pump, which was a lot more work than our would seem, because I had to pull the reed block off to drill and tap into it.

The worst part was that I thought I'd dropped one of the washers into the crankcase--while reviving them so they wouldn't fall in the crankcase. After a few minutes of looking for it in the crankcase, I found it on the floor, but that was an experience I could have done without.

I'll pull the tank and finish up the fuel pump at the same time as I pull the glovebox cowl off to fix it, possibly even tomorrow. Speaking of which...

I also took a look at the crash damage. Dents and scratches on the glovebox cowl, a crease and dents in the legshield, scratches on the mudguard.

The glovebox will get hammered out, skimmed, and painted. The legshield I'll hammer or as best I can, along with taking another run at the tree damage on the other side, then repainted. They mudguard I can flex back into shape, then sand and re-shoot the clear coat and it'll be fine.

My biggest obstacle at this point is that I get irritated with myself whenever I think about it, but in a few more weeks, all will be good to go.
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Lucky
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Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
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Oh, yeah...forgot pictures...
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
Full respray or localized repairs, what's the strategy? I'm not totally clear from your explanation…
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Lucky
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Lucky
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I'm going to do just the legshield of the frame, I think, then sand and re-shoot clear coat on the mudguard, which has superficial scratches. I'll put some more effort into the right-hand side of the legshield where I didn't work the tree damage as much as I could have, too.

Then, I'm going to do a full respray of the glovebox cowl. I hammered the dents out today and it's going to be fine. I surprised myself a little bit with how well it turned out.

I'm going to drop the fork, but leave the motor in the bike and the floor rails on.

And I finished up the fuel pump install whose need I was verifying when this whole mess began since I had the tank out to pull the cowl off.
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Johnny Two Tone
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
Take lots of pics along the way
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10489
Location: Nashville

180 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10489
Location: Nashville

180 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Way ahead of you

Like a B Movie, I'm going straight to video...

@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8875
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8875
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
Ay, we have a budding restolad!!

can't wait to see the legshield video!
OP
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10489
Location: Nashville

180 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10489
Location: Nashville

180 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Part Two is up!

Lots more hammering, and the results are pretty impressive to me, at least.

Next up, I'll be prepping for the re-paint. No stripping to bare metal this time, but probably pretty close since there are some deep scratches in there.
@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8875
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8875
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
we need a split screen for the front and rear of the legshield to figure out where your dolly is vs your hammer . nice work, I swear I'd consider watching the full length version, it's fascinating to watch the dents come undone.
OP
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10489
Location: Nashville

180 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10489
Location: Nashville

180 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
I should probably go back and re-cut that last video. Something got seriously off with it around the 4:30 mark.

And if you want to watch half an hour of me hammering dents, I'll upload it for you in the morning, along with another twelve minutes of my hamming the cowl.
@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8875
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8875
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
so it looks like you primarily are using the comma dolly, the square and round hammer, and then you have one that has a pick sort of end. not too much outlay required by the looks of it, I'm thinking to visit Harbor Freight before I try my hand at the floor on this PX.
OP
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10489
Location: Nashville

180 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10489
Location: Nashville

180 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Yeah, I mostly use the heavy hammer because it gets the energy into the legshield, which tends to want to bounce and dissipate the force.

According to multiple Youtubers (the source of all my bodywork wisdom), you should avoid the cheap-o Harbor Freight tools and buy something decent. My set is from Eastwood and is only $70. It shipped fast, too.
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