Modern Vespa

I would like some advise about plugging a tire. I know that some of you don't ever recommend doing that, but I personally am fine with the risk. What I want to know is what I an doing wrong getting my kits to work. I made an attempt with two kits this weekends and couldn't do it.

I tried first with the mini pocket plug n go kit that uses mushroom plugs. It seemed to working fine until the part where I needed to turn the handle on the part that inserts the plug into the tire. I got it about half way and then it wouldn't move.

Then I bought a sticky string kit from the auto store. The reamer was much better. I couldn't get the screwdriver-handle-thing with the sticky string into the tire. There was a more expensive kit at the auto parts store with a larger handle that fits into your whole hand, and I am thinking that that I should have bought that instead. I have seen the guy where I take my car tires to plug my car tire with one of those. It might have been bigger and more heavy duty though.

While I was sitting and staring at the tire I noticed some small weather cracks on it and just replaced it for safety reasons.

Ryan F9 has illustrated this very helpfully.

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm6fTWaj3QE"

I do all of my own tire work--fixing flats and changing tires. I have spent a good amount of money on the various kits and techniques out there.

Installing mushroom plugs with the tire on the wheel are hit or miss. They are not a consistent repair.

Using sticky strings are a little better than plugs and the best professional kit I have found is called Safety Seal--available direct or on Amazon.com. They are difficult to shove in the puncture hole and you wind up widening it to get the strings in there. That weakens the repair.

A more permanent repair is to take the tire off the wheel and use glue and a tubeless patch. Those are only available at professional tire supply stores, located in big cities, where ever you are. All the tire repair shops get their supplies from somewhere and you have to find out where. They will sell to the public.

Despite the nonsense you hear, it is not dangerous to repair a tubeless tire. The worst that will happen is the tire will lose air in hours, not split seconds. You will not suffer a blowout, going down the road at 70 mph, and kill yourself. Doesn't happen because the tires are tubeless.

Old tubed tires are the ones that can be dangerous because if the tire splits open, the tube will explode and lose all of its air in a second. You have no reason to be riding around on old tubed or tubeless tires to begin with.

I have come to regard all tire repairs as temporary. They hold me over until I can get a new tire. I have had my share of doing the same repair, at the same place, on the same tire, a few times. It's just not worth it to me.

To be safe you have to pull the tire and plug it from the inside out.

As joehuston says the best thing is to remove the tire and use an interior patch; the quick repair kit is suitable for when you are out and about and cannot disassemble the wheel, it is for emergencies.
Regarding the tube tires, Joe .... I (many years ago) with the PX I fell due to punctures precisely because the rapid escape of air makes you lose control of the scooter.
Today they sell rims with the same design as the vintage ones but which can fit tubeless tires, at vintage Vespa rallies I have seen many installed.

I've used the mushroom tire plugs successfully, not sure what the controversy refers to there. They do work, but not if they're done wrong, and the instructions are pretty clear, so

I've used the string type kits...kept a year old pair of City Grips running until they needed replacement due to normal wear. It's been years now since I did it, but I recall thinking "I'm truly killing this tire, but WTF...I'm stuck unless this thing works". I felt like I was ripping the hole too large, but it was fine.

Eric

Tires only two really safe ways. #1 replace tire #2 Repair tire from inside.

And to think Vespas (German scooters, too) used to have spares....and Vespa easy to remove rear wheels. Wonderful in my book.

I've used the sticky string on tires for decades. The only secret is to use a good dose of rubber cement to lube it so that it's easier to insert. Tread patch only, never sidewalls. I once had 3 plugs in a very worn out tire on my CBR1100XX. While waiting my turn at the shop I decided to do some burnouts to use it up. Finally wore thru the tread and it popped. All 3 of the plugs were still good! I've never had a plug come out or leak.

Experience limited but recent. Agree regarding the mushroom plugs. i've used them 3 times in my motorcycling career and they have only held for the remaining life of the tyre once. in all the situations though they held enough for me to get back on the road to my destination which is the main thing though! looking to get some silly string and try that instead to see if i have any more success.

My last flat which i got a week ago i bought a few of those internal mushrooms which you have to take the tyre off the rim to apply. seems to be holding great so far. should get another 8k miles on the tyre wear wise so fingers crossed. Your obviously limited to the diameter of the plug though. anything bigger it wouldn't be suitable.

Trying to find a tyre shop locally to me that will repair like this is challenging. cursing with the tyre spoons it is!

i remember if my early days with the LX and not knowing any better, i got a flat on the rear and with the tyre being so small and the sidewall so strong rode it another 5 miles to work with it flat. handled it like a champ!

I'd personally replace the tyre and install Ultraseal. It's widely used and is very safe and works well if used properly. I've used it in the Military and in all my bikes. The US marine corp uses it as does Military, many Police forces and truck companies around the world. My GTS300 has to date had 1 front puncture and 2 rear punctures, all sealed straight away with the product. And it's permanent, safe and cost effective, unlike plugs and some patches. It also helps prevent blow outs.

The problem with plugs is that bike tyres get very hot, even hotter than car tyres. Add to that the smaller circumference of the wheel and it's a recipe for disaster. Heat alters pressures and loosens vulcanised plugs. Also, plug a tyre and you instantly have a speed restriction placed on the tyre to prevent even more heat causing the plug or patch to come undone. What generally can happen, and it's happened to me on one occasion when I used a plug, is that the heat over time causes the plug to come undone and either blow out, or release air slowly as you ride. This last situation occurred to me. I was ridding on a motorway for several miles at a steady 65mph in a straight line. I came to turn off the motorway, entering a slip road and as I did so the back end of the bike went crazy with a near flat back tyre. I nearly high sided the bike at 55mph. Heart in mouth. I had lost most of my air but in a straight line I was unable to detect any noticeable difference in the handling. Once you deviate from the straight line you can lose the bike, and maybe your life! Reputable professionals won't normally fit plugs or even repair many bike tyres because of these dangers. They are not covered by their insurance if an accident happens due to any repair they carry out.

Over here plugs are not legal for a permanent repair or even to use in some countries of the EU. This is quite right as testing by several governmental organisations has shown them to be unstable and dangerous. Insurance companies don't like them either. And to those of you who say you've used them for years and never had any trouble, you've been lucky! It's dicing with death and it's not just your life that could be affected.

There are modern tire plugs and old tire plugs, and I wonder upon which those studies were done. Newer tire plugs vulcanize with the tire's rubber, which makes those suckers really work. The plug, with heat, essentially becomes part of the tire wall itself. I don't see them as unsafe, and the numbers of us who have safely used them is cumulative evidence that they're safer than many people think.

I, for one, will continue to keep a string repair kit in every 2 wheeler I own in case I get a flat.

Eric

[quote="Stromrider"] UK transportation laws and German TUV etc are notoriously strict, perhaps unnecessarily so in some aspects. However tire plugs have worked successfully for decades. It's not particle physics. You simply have to perform the repair properly. It is an unfortunate fact of life that some people just don't have "craft", ie couldn't nail two pieces of wood together correctly. People like this do exist, and they will screw anything and everything up because they can't help it. These are the types of people who really should not be performing maintenance or repair of any sort on their cars or bikes. These people should just go to a shop.

I don't have that problem. It's not a matter of luck it's a matter of doing it right.

Or to put it a little vulgarly as one of my bosses said about one of his in-laws: "He couldn't pour pi$$ out of a boot if the instructions were on the bottom of the heel!"

I've used my Stop & Go plug kit successfully several different times - although never on my own scoot. Always somebody else in need.

My kit cam with mushroom plugs and I've added sticky string to the kit, so I have those if needed.

Plenty of good videos on the net. You should clean up the hole with a reamer tool, that will help to seat your plug more cleanly and result in a better seal.

With problem with repairing tires is the inability to know if the puncture did structural damage to the belts in the tread area. The plug can repair the rubber, but not the belt.

Having said that, I've never had a plugged tire fail, although a few have had very slow leaks (fill it once a week).

I figure if I need to take it someplace to have the tire taken off the rim to repair, it, may as well put on a new tire. Especially for a rear tire, where getting them on and off the scooter can be a major hassle.

Yes, however a nail-in-tire scenario which is the prevailing cause of flat tires will generally not involve the destruction of internal belting to the point the tire cannot be plugged well enough to get you to the shop.

Having said what I said, I should probably also say that in the event I get a flat tire, I will plug it and park it until I can get some new rubber on the wheel. Plugs, for me, are an emergency thing not a permanent thing. I'm a motorcyclist with a scooter hobby not the other way around. I'm leaned over in corners more often than not and I want my tires to be on point 100% of the time no compromises.

But plugs will get you down the road a piece until you can appropriate a better solution.

And you are completely correct Booger. They are intended to be a temporary get you home fix only. Even the manufacturers tell you NOT to use them as a permanent repair.

Over here in the EU zone, that thankfully the UK is no longer a part of, we test everything to a far greater standard than you US guys. Standards are much higher for most things on bikes and cars including emissions. In testing nearly all tyre temporary plugs eventually fail in normal riding at some point. How the bike is ridden also affects the outcome too.

Over here tyre repair places will refuse to fit a plug to any tyre as they know the very high failure rate can cause them a massive problem. And of course it's illegal over here. Even a fully vulcanised mushroom plug fitted from the inside of the tyre is truly a gamble on motorcycles due to the high heat bikes generate, unless it's a very low speed machine like a 50cc moped. The inside fit vulcanised mushroom plugs are not illegal over here but they still fail because bikers don't remember there is a compulsory speed limit over here on tyres repaired in that way. There have been cases over the years of bikers actually dying because a mushroom plug has come unglued at speed. And surprisingly it's a slow puncture that normally kills the rider, not a blowout! And it was this very thing that I experienced, but lived to ride another day.

PS. a nail in the tyre can also rip the tyre carcass belt. I've had that too on my Burgman. The nail went in at an angle ripping the internal belt. Thankfully I had Ultraseal in the tyre and it sealed the whole lot up as I was riding, preventing a blowout. I had no idea I had picked up the nail as I was cruising at 60mph on the dual carriageway. I still had 60 miles to go to get home but it was ok. When I removed the tyre the damage was severe, but as I say, saved by Ultraseal. In that instance the tyre of course needed replacing. I posted a photo of the damage somewhere on here a few years back.

I have a quibble with the test methodology. It's not simulating running over a rock, it's simulating running over a bolt sticking out of a plate at 90 degrees. A rock with that small of a contact surface isn't going to be terribly tall, and probably wouldn't push through the depth of the tire carcass.

That said, since the "mushroom plug" appears to rely only on friction, internal pressure, and centrifugal force* rather than a chemical bond with the tire, this could be problematic regardless.



*Yeah, I know it's just centripetal force with a delusional frame of reference, but whatever.

That's for the replies. I figured out that I didn't push the mushroom plug down into the other half of the plug inserter tool after after watching this video.
By the way, you need to carry a pair of pliers with you or in your kit to pull the nail out and to pull on the plug getting it to seat right. I think that while your are stretching the plug would be the perfect time to to apply some vulcanizing cement for an even better seal. I could have done the plug and go had I known this. The reamer that comes with the mini kits is too small bty.

For the sticky string plug to work you have to buy an inserter tool with a full handle to fit the entire palm of your hand so that you can get enough torch on it to push it through the tire. The kind with just a screw driver handle are too small to be able to work. I think that I could have done this if I had the right tools.

I've plugged a few car tires and always had good results with the gummy twisted rope stuff. True that a good tool really helps. I haven't fixed many motorcycle tires with them but it's tougher with the re-enforcing layers on the speed rated tires so you need a good tool to ream the hole larger. I do not recall if I did any tire repairs on my scooters had a silver wing and a reflex back in the day.

Plug + Slime will make it til your next tire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLG_tq0x8Mc