Modern Vespa

Does anyone have a view on or experience with both brands? I'm finishing off my '87 PX200E restoration, and whilst keeping it 95% factory, I have made a few sympathetic improvements for safely, handling and comfort purposes:

- PX Disc headset (original EFL speedo and grips, Grimeca MC)
- Late EFL/T5 mirrors (Piaggio black & square type)
- Front disc brake (traditional hub style in place of Disc star hub)
- PX 2011+ seat (comfort trumps all in this case)
- YSS shocks (I really wanted to keep the front P shock with the grey casing, but it didn't work well with the disc setup)

I'm happy to use either BGM or SIP TL rims for the added safety aspect. I've used SIP rims many times before, but never the BGM ones (made by FA Italia). Are they just as good and will one fit ok as a spare? Aesthetically, they both come in a silver option to match the fork and hubs, and they are both relatively 'plain' in line with the original split rims, unlike the Pinasco rims which are a little 'fancy' for my liking.

Sorry to not answer the question I've only used SIP but I think I'd go split rim next time because of the tire fitting difficulty... I have a question for you though, can you explain a bit more about the traditional front wheel on disc forks? My understanding is that some LMLs came with this set up but I haven't been able to find one..

I bought a complete set of LML disc forks last year. They came with the traditional style hub, like the Grimeca NT style, but without all the fancy criss cross design. When I stripped the original PX200E forks, I realised they were in great condition, stops and all. They also belonged to the scooter from factory, so I decided to refurb them, then transfer over the caliper carrier, disc, caliper and hub from the LML forks.

I only use SIP. I've seen some F.A. tubeless and quality / finish was terrible. Don't know how much better the BGM are. About tyres, Pirelli Angels are the best ones I have tried on our roads. Maybe they're crap on other countries, can't really say. Our roads are abused, mirror like and super slippery...

FYI, LML and Grimeca front disc parts (carrier, hub) are not compatible, so for anyone thinking on upgrading to a disc brake, choose one or the other...

Thanks SaFiS, only the master cylinder is Grimeca in my case, so there is nothing to worry about. Everything at the front wheel (hub, carrier and caliper) is LML because I wanted the traditional hub

So what all makes them not compatible? I had a LML hub on a Grimeca carrier, and I didn't come across any perceivable differences. I know that the carrier is cast a little different where the shock and the speedo cable go, but everything else lined up just fine.

Hi SWA,
My feedback from experience.
Dont buy the SIP Tyres, I bought a pair of 3.50 x 10 Sport tyres and they were made so tight that they couldnt be fitted to a normal split pX rim. Even with tyre /rim fitting lube.
Sent them back and they gave me a refund. They said it was a manufacturing issue???
Shows the quality checks after production....I believe the tyres are made in Asia. If I remember correctly Thailand.
Apart from this mistake, Ive always bought German tyres. Heidenau to be exact and never had any issues.
They have a high speed rating and ride really well in wet and dry conditions.
I run Pinasco tubeless Split Alloy rims as I dont want to have to rely on someone fitting the tyres on a machine.
Never tried the SIP rims but wont do after the tyres experience.

Cheers Robbie

I wouldn't buy non-split rims again. It costs $$for the local shop to mount them, and they aren't always careful to avoid messing up the rims.

I use a local motorcycle specialist to mount tyres onto a SIP (or BGM) rim. He charges £5 for each wheel ($7 US) and never scratches/damages the wheel rim. So far I have not had a single puncture nor had to change them due to wear, in four years of running these wheels, so the fitting cost is just a rounding error compared to other Vespa stuff I spend my money on. Piaggio split rims just corrode in no time at all (and I don't like inner tubes), and Pinasco split rims are much more expensive than the SIP/BGM alloys. For me it's a no brainer

Thanks Robbie. SIP rims are very good in my opinion. However, since we left the EU, Scooter Center is so much easier to deal with and delivery time is much quicker. That's why I'm willing to try the BGM rims, if the quality is as good as SIP

Pros for SIP tubeless rims:
- look mint, good quality
- heaps of size/finish options
- heard they will mount tyres on them if bought at the same time (like other than what is listed)
- mine don't lose pressure over time (like hardly ever have had to top them up)

Cons
- fragile in that they get marked up easily
- mine needed balancing (despite what is said). Need to take a hub to someone somewhere who can balance using spindles (or learn to do it yourself but f-that)
- tricky to mount tyres: need someone who will mount manually using protective clamps, the secret is lots of lube
- some sizes severely limit tyre options

Oh and the old style Grimeca disc hubs are available on SIP, SC and elsewhere. Often sold out tho. Better quality version is at Scooter and Service (but more pricey).

Thanks Pheas. I decided to buy the LML forks because I thought I needed a complete unit, but as it turned out, my PX steering column/fork just needed a refurb. I prefer the LML hub to the Grimeca one, but only time will tell quality wise. It's the caliper that may end up disappointing me, although the engine is a sub 20hp build. I replaced the crappy LML yellowy gold coloured hardware with A4 marine stainless.

I think the suspension cover would look way better in black since you have other black accents on the scooter. I know it's correct to be silver...

I reckon the scooter and service hubs are LML that have had the face machined anyway. Looks mint. Nothing wrong with the Grimeca caliper setup - the master cylinder suit the pistons in them. Reckon the radial calipers are more for show and personally don't believe the hype. Easy enough to upgrade that caliper for a sip one and heard they are decent quality. Looking sweet.

I think either choice will be a good one, here's my 2 cents.

I have the SIP rims on my PX150 in the US and the Pinasco (similar to the BGM) rims on my PX150 in Italy.

I chose the SIP rims because the shop I had in Texas had a tire changing machine so installation was a no brainer. I went with the Pinascos because the workspace I have in Italy was limited and it would be easier to work with a split rim design with the modest amount of equipment I have there.

All that being said I've been happier with the SIP setup. From a strictly ascetic view they look better to me and from a practical view they seat the bead of the tire better than the Pinasco.

If you do go with a split rim be sure you use a waterproof grease on the large o ring and on the valve. You will get some condensation inside the tire from everyday use and the grease will keep the water from seeping out.