Modern Vespa

Question for the people ride motorcycles as well as vespas, or who have switched from mc to vespa/scooters in general.
-
Has anyone gotten a vespa/scooter (above 50cc) as their first bike - and then later thought it would have been better to learn on a motorcycle first?
-

Taking the mfs next weekend - with intention to purchase gts 300. I never learned to drive a standard transmission car - so successfully learning to use the clutch/shifting gears is my biggest concern. Provided I pass, my next concern will be immediately forgetting how to shift gears. Like most things - without practice new skills/knowledge will be lost.

I've never had any real desire to get a mc, but I've also only ever ridden 50cc rental scooters (yes the revels) so its fair to say this may change.

Have to asnwer no to your actual question.

Still, personally, I've found it relatively easy to switch, gradually from a geared bike to automatic and vice versa. The same with cars.

Again, personally, I perform poorly if I have to continuously switch between a vehicle with gears and one with automatic transmission. I know that is not a big issue for many, perhaps I'm just slow to adapt.

To me, not having break pedal in Vespa was the hardest thing to come over - even harder than having hand levers at the 'wrong side'

As a summary, I don't think you'll 'miss much' by starting with an automatic transmission scoot. Learning gears later is not that difficult. Also, please note that many, many modern bikes have ultra light clutch levers, easy to use and precise gearboxes, various anti-stall systems.. .. so if your driving school has.. umm... bikes from a more traditional brand around there , this may not give the right implication on how easy many bikes are today.

Have never really had a problem switching between manual and auto drove manual and auto when younger for work in early years then just manual for years as auto vehicles in the uk used to command a premium over manual had a lambrettas for years then nothing scooterwise for 20 years, during that time we stated buying automatic cars but I had a manual van for work so switched easily. Now we just have autos but am perfectly happy to drive manual.

I switch between my auto and manual regularly. It won't be an issue as changing gears is something that resides in muscle memory. The only thing I tend to do in an emergency kind of stop situation on my GTS is try and foot brake but it is not a big deal as I am still front braking and pulling the back brake thinking it was a clutch. The end product is still the same

I don't think knowing how to drive a manual car helped me for more than maybe 5 minutes in the MSI course on the motorcycle. (I happen to own a manual car, and have been driving stick since before I could drive legally.) And it's extremely easy to transition from the motorcycle's pedals/shifter to the scooter's no pedals/no shifter.

I haven't ridden a motorcycle since the MSI course. Would it be difficult to transition back? I don't know but am thinking 15-30 minutes in an empty parking lot will be a good start if that time ever comes.

I don't think learning to drive a manual shift car carries over much to motorcycles because your hand and foot actions are reversed. And though you may not use clutching and shifting on a scooter, the other aspects of training on two wheels sure do make you a safer scooter rider. The MSF course gives you plenty of time to learn shifting so it isn't too hard. I didn't ever feel I had to "un-learn" it.

Good luck & have fun! 8)

As I think it is a matter of mind ... Just getting used to it a little bit at first and then it becomes habitual.

My first set of wheels was a 180cc scooter. My second set was a 450cc motorcycle.

In some ways, having an automatic as my first bike was easier because I was more focused on traffic and learning the ways of the roads. Although, I'm sure it would have been OK on a motorcycle first with a bit of parking lot practice, which you will get plenty of in MSF course.

I think after you finish the MSF, you will be OK. There is a lot of shifting/clutch play in that class.

Normally I'd be a proponent of telling people to take the msf using motorcycle so you get the experience even if you plan on using a scooter first. But your apprehension and lack of manual anything skills, i would suggest just doing the msf course on a provided scooter as it's an auto scooter and you can solely focus on getting used to balance and the road and all other things going on with more weight and speed. Especially cause you don't seem to want to ever make that motorcycle transition.

You can always learn to ride and shift a motorcycle after more experience on the road in traffic in nyc. But if you already signed up for msf with motorcycle and not a scooter then don't worry cause you will be in parking lots the whole time. The provided motorcycles are base model Harley's so they are not small but not too large. Definitely more weight than your vespa plans.

Half the people in my msf class dumped their bikes at least once, so you have room for mistakes in the class. Surprisingly there were at least two who passed their tests almost dumping their bike. I was amazed and shocked!

I took my MSF course on a motorcycle and bought a MC as my first bike. As a lifelong manual-transmission car driver, I figured it would be NBD to transition to a MC. I didn't have many problems shifting in the controlled environment of the MSF course, but I bought myself a reasonable starter bike (Kawasaki Vulcan 500) and I found the shifting in real-world conditions to be unnecessarily stressful. Having to quickly turn onto roads with heavy traffic, starting on hills into tricky intersections, etc., just proved to be more stress than I cared to deal with. So I sold the Vulcan and bought a Fly 150 and I could not be happier with my decision.

So much so that I recently added a 2016 Vespa GTV300 to my collection, lol!

Anyway, I'm really glad I did take the MSF on a motorcycle; if you can do it on a MC, you can do it on anything and I think it's always better to learn on the harder thing first if you can.

I suspect that most new riders think using a clutch is much more difficult than it really is. Yeah, you'll stall the bike a few times at first. But you'll get the hang of it. Perhaps not a bad thing that you need to pay attention to the engine, and shift to keep it happy.

Certainly if you were just learning, a 500-size bike was maybe more than you needed. In the old days, we learned on 125's, but I suspect the smallest (lightest) bikes commonly available these days are 250's.

If you are serious about learning to ride motorcycles (as opposed to scooters) I'd suggest you try to find someone who has dirtbikes and a place to ride them, and spend some time on a dirtbike. You'll learn all the technical skills, get some practice operating at (and beyond) the limits of traction, all away from cars. And, of course, shifting.

Once you have the operating skills, much easier to learn the skills of negotiating traffic safely.

I cut my teeth on a small (50cc) motorcycle. 40 years later got my first scooter, but took the MSF course on their MC. Shifting was pretty seamless (thank you, muscle memory!). Been on automatics ever since. I feel that I could hop on and shift without much trouble anytime I needed to.

It's nice to have the flexibility, but if all you ever intend to do is ride automatics, it's not important. If you think you might be moving on at some point, the MSF is a great way to learn.....

I took the MSF without ever having ridden a motorcycle or scooter, just bicycles haha. I did learn to drive on a manual and still do, but that wasn't a direct transfer to riding motorcycles.

The best advice I can give is listen to your ridercoach and be safe, they will walk you through everything. The class I was in everyone passed. Not the case with another class that was running that day.

yeah signed up w the mc. seemed like kinda a waste not to learn to shift while i was there. at least i'd have a starting point if i want a mc later.

i've also heard it's expected to drop yr bike at the msf at some point.

My 5'1 wife with no shifting experience took the MSF class and passed it on one of their Suzuki Marauder 250's. Instructors were real patient and she said she enjoyed the challenge.

I went in with shifting experience and could only tell you to A. Find the lightest motorcycle they have (there were some dirt bikes in my class) and B. to talk yourself through the shifting process. In your head calmly say the steps that you've been taught and slowly execute them. Each time getting quicker and quicker. If you rush it and stall, slow the process down. Repeat again and then keep building up your confidence.

Between now and the class, go waste some time on YouTube watching basic motorcycle shifting videos. That way you'll know it inside and out when the class finally happens.

thanks for everyones advice.

I have watch a number of videos about shifting gear. I know the steps, but kinda like counter steering, You quickly hit a limit to how much you can learn with out actual practice/time on a bike.

I know its not impossible - and many people go int o the class without any experience w manual gears.

Shifting isn't hard, you'll get it. Helps if you play an instrument or something like that where you can use your hands and feet independently at the same time. I played drums growing up and first few cars were all manual so it was like zero curve when i got to my msf class. Hopefully you don't drop it. I never had that problem but many in my class did. They aren't gonna charge you for dings!

Just remember, when you panic or don't know what to do, always the best thing to do is pull the clutch to remove power. You get into risky situation, always use the clutch to remove power.

Beyond that, don't clamp down on front brake with a death grip. That's where you are going to lose control the quickest. Rear brake is safer and easier to slowly apply.

I thought it was just me. After 45 years of riding motorcycles, we switched to scooters 8 years ago. I grabbed a whole handful of rear brake a time or twelve, after all those years of using a clutch.

I have let some of my motorcycling friends ride my scooter, and I remind them that the left lever is NOT a clutch... they still try pulling that all the way to the handgrip when they first come to a stop.

After 6 years of only riding scooters, the first time I got back on a motorcycle was absolutely no transition. I've ridden a few since then... fun as a change, but certainly not as practical and fun as my Vespa. For full disclosure, I did look at a Honda Rebel 1100 DCT a couple weeks ago. Nice bike with an automatic transmission (paddle shifters if you want to use it in manual)... but the underseat storage (you have to remove the seat) might hold a pair of gloves. I still have a couple nice leather riding jackets... just in case. Space is an issue - we have been quite content for years now with one bike each. For me, that means the Vespa.

For the OP, it isn't a big deal (for most) to switch back and forth between scooters and motorcycles. Just learn each to proficiency.

I've driven an 18 wheeler and many standard autos. I got tired of shifting so much I gave up motorcycles(only about 150,000 MC miles). Then I bought the Honda SH150i. I enjoy riding Twist-N-Go so much that I'll be riding scoots until I am unable to. IMHO I've got more important things to think about when I'm riding than what gear I'm in.

Great advice from MJ. I regularly go from 821 cc Ducati to GTS to Zero Electric with no issues whatsoever. the MSF courses are usually staffed by excellent instructors and volunteers to help every0one through the process. Good luck, and let us know how the course turns out for you.