OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Advertised max speed: 49.7 mph
Max speed w/ tailwind (GPS): 47 mph (speedo pegged to 80 kph)
Max speed w/ headwind (GPS): 38 mph

1'st gear has almost no torque.
2'nd gear has slightly more but not by much.
3'rd gear is only usable gear.

Throttle tube and shifter are very stiff, and gears are extremely clunky when shifting!

Kinda loving this smallframe size. Now if only it had more torque and an extra gear!
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
I would say you are correct about needing two regulators. I've been eyeing two regulators for my Allstate. I figure if they are ever actually activated it should help save my bulbs, otherwise their just hanging out doing nothing.

Can you measure what you're getting for AC voltage output? You might be able to use one of these if the AC voltage is between 10-18 VAC. Who knows these draw so little current .10 amps or about 1 watt, you may need a 12 volt regulator because of a lack of load.

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-and-subminiature-bulbs/1156-boat-and-rv-led-light-bulb-18-smd-led-tower-ba15s-retrofit-base-325-lumens/2337/720/
I had some time yesterday to take a voltage reading on my brake and plate running light sockets. This is a 6v system so i was not expecting the 10-14vac. Brake light when pedal pressed gets 5.8v idling and about 8 under full throttle. And even after cleaning all the contacts in the brake light circuit, it still won't turn on. I'm gonna have to spend some time debugging this one.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Turn signals fixed with prior disassembly, cleaning of contacts and most importantly a new 6v flasher for scooter works.

Also found a convenient metal tab on inside of seat tunnel for holding the flasher unit. I'm sure it was intentional for that purpose, but still cool to discover instead of the way it was when i got it. Just sitting on the tunnel floor below the carb where oil was covering it.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Got an SHB 19/19 jetting/setting issue that someone may know what is going on.

I'm assuming it might be air leak at the carb to engine?

I am trying to set the air mix screw and tickover screw to have the engine settle to idle fast after applying the clutch lever and removing throttle, but no matter what I do it either settles to idle in a long drawn out downward curve, or hangs at really high idle for a while then comes down quick.

I've tried setting the air mix screw all over the place to see if I could solve it and neither over 1.5 turns out or under 1.5 turns out seems to solve it. In fact, what I would expect to be the symptom for leaner air mix setting is what happens when its set to less than 1.5 turns out.

- When I set to 1.5 turns air mix screw the idle settles down very slowly over about 30 seconds to a minute.

- When I set air mix screw to over 1.5 turns out, it idles extremely high (like under full throttle) for a while then randomly comes down fast to a normal idle.

- When I set to less than 1.5 turns out, it still takes forever to slowly settle to idle, but just seems weaker idle.

sound file of me driving on back roads then occasionally coming to a stop sign and waiting for the idle to settle down:
https://soundcloud.com/sean-simpson-231097141/v100-idle-slow-settle-issue

Like I said, I'm guessing it might be carb to engine air leak because I have the carb mounting bracket that tightens down and holds it onto the engine manifold tight, but my carb still can rotate around on the manifold. It can't be pulled off the manifold with the mounting bracket tightened down, but it definitely rotates around easily on that manifold.
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9629
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9629
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
Classic air leak after the carb. Pack the carb slots w/ silicon and make sure that felt ring is in place which is just before the carb goes on, and freshly greased, then push the carb back against it TIGHT before you tighten the clamp screw. Also make sure the manifold is tight to the cylinder w/ a good gasket and flat manifold flange. How to have fun in small places! Clown emoticon

Good Luck!
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
Classic air leak after the carb. Pack the carb slots w/ silicon and make sure that felt ring is in place which is just before the carb goes on, and freshly greased, then push the carb back against it TIGHT before you tighten the clamp screw. Also make sure the manifold is tight to the cylinder w/ a good gasket and flat manifold flange. How to have fun in small places! Clown emoticon

Good Luck!
Thanks Terry, that's what I feared. I did put a brand new felt ring in with fresh grease and tried to push tight before tightening the clamp screw, but I have not done the silicone on carb slots? I'm guessing you mean the slots on the manifold that go lengthwise where the carb slides in? To get rid of the gaps between the slots? Do you do this before you mount the carb and let it dry? then make sure the manifold ID is clear of silicone for the carb to slide in cleanly before sticking the carb in and tightening the bracket. Or do you just mount the carb tightly against the felt ring with bracket and once it is on, just apply a healthy coating of silicone around the manifold over the slots?
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Pulled everything out and i forgot there were slits on the carb body to manifold, was thinking there was just slits on the manifold.

I need to silicone the slits on the carb body output right?

Also took a video of the manifold play in the frame. Should it have this much play or do i need to tighten that as well to prevent air leaks? The manifold itself is tight, it's just the outer tube that clamps to the carb output.

Edit: looking at the parts diagram to try to figure out how to tighten or remove the through frame manifold, i see that outer tube that clamps to the carb is held in place by a circlip so i guess the free play wiggle is normal. On inspection i do have a small tear in the rubber bellows that looks like an inflated tube that goes over that whole section. Wondering if that is related to any carb air leaks or if it's just a cosmetic bellows to prevent dirt oil and large air flow into the tunnel and carb area?

best I got:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1CEQPsPdmVwQdsYm9

http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Bellow/71813

Simple job siliconing those slits shut.
Silicone these slits
Silicone these slits
Not these
Not these
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Return to idle is much better but still slower than my stella. Guessing its a heavier flywheel thing and not a carb setting thing.

But on to electrical. Got my replacement bulbs in the mail today and with a new headlight, plate light and the original brake light bulb in, both the headlight and plate light work great. Turn signals work great now. But the damn brake light still doesn't work when brake pedal pressed. I even tried a 10w bulb which seems all other similar models call for instead of the 15w bulb this one calls for. Still no work.

I'm going to have to spend some time in the morning with a multimeter and the schematic to see if I can figure this out. I was getting 6v at the socket for that bulb and continuity when disconnected at all the right places.. but now I'm thinking continuity might not have been where it needed to be going through, but possibly shorted wires that are skipping the brake light route. No clue.

Just spent a few hours combing through really old MV posts regarding 6v brake like circuit issues and I've come out with possibly a check to see if the coil is providing the right current by checking at the junction what the voltage is between the blue and yellow wires (suggested on old thread for slightly different wiring) with brake switch open and closed. Reading my schematic I really don't think the blue and yellow wires share a circuit, but instead the blue and green wires do. I believe the green wire feeds the handlebar switch that powers both the headlight and horn at the front of the bike, and also connect to the brake/plate light in the back. The turn signals are on their own circuit with the yellow wire and share a connection to the ignition coil/red wire. So I think this 6v check would need to be between the blue and green wires.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

The only other thing I can think of is I'd have to remove the whole wiring harness and check it for similar decaying issues to the stator plate.. which is not far fetched.

I did take it for a ride around back streets tonight after dark and the plate light is bright! Headlight also works fine enough. Turn signals very visible at night.. not visible at all during the daylight. Just can't get it registered or really use it beyond these back streets until I get that brake light sorted.
UTC

Addicted
PK50XL, PK100S, ET3, Matchless G80S, Honda CBR400RR, Ducati ST4S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 617
Location: UK
 
Addicted
PK50XL, PK100S, ET3, Matchless G80S, Honda CBR400RR, Ducati ST4S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 617
Location: UK
UTC quote
Have you checked out the switch at the brake pedal end? I've managed to unplug a cable when putting the brake pedal back in, so it could be something as simple as that.
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Matchlessman wrote:
Have you checked out the switch at the brake pedal end? I've managed to unplug a cable when putting the brake pedal back in, so it could be something as simple as that.
Yes I cleaned it and reconnected it and confirmed it had continuity. That is not it.

But I did have an idea from your suggestion.. its a brake switch that turns the brake light on when the circuit is broken as the switch opens.. so all I needed to do to test the switch was disconnect it while the bike is running and the light should just be on all the time. Unfortunately when I just tested this theory by disconnecting the brake switch and leaving the ends of the switch cables dangling away from everything, the brake light did not come on.

So this means one of two things.. there is an issue with the wiring inside the frame, maybe a short that is grounding the brake switch wiring to the same circuit, so that no matter what I do with the brake switch, the wiring always has continuity with itself as if the switch is in it's default state even when it isn't, so that the brake light can never get energy, or the stator plate is not set up to correctly feed the power to the brake light. The stator plate I highly doubt has issues as I sent it into Scooter Mercato and they know what they are doing, so i'm left with the realization that I probably need to rip the wiring harness out of this frame. ugh!

Either way, I did some multimeter tests on the junction box while engine was running to see what kind of voltage I was getting based on bridging different wire combinations.

Pictures and values below:
Blue to Yellow: 16.34v AC.  These two circuits should not be connected.. Blue is the brake light switch circuit.  Yellow powers the turn signals.
Blue to Yellow: 16.34v AC. These two circuits should not be connected.. Blue is the brake light switch circuit. Yellow powers the turn signals.
Blue to Green: 0.79v AC.  This should be connected I believe.  Green powers headlights and horn and is bridged to the blue at tail light to share voltage when brake light is on.
Blue to Green: 0.79v AC. This should be connected I believe. Green powers headlights and horn and is bridged to the blue at tail light to share voltage when brake light is on.
Black Ground to Blue: 0.00v AC.  This has continuity so I'm not sure what the reading is supposed to be.
Black Ground to Blue: 0.00v AC. This has continuity so I'm not sure what the reading is supposed to be.
Black ground to Yellow turn signals: 16.18v ac.  This should not have continuity in this default state.. turn signals are off.
Black ground to Yellow turn signals: 16.18v ac. This should not have continuity in this default state.. turn signals are off.
Black ground to Green: 0.81v ac.  This should also not have continuity right now as I had the headlight power switch turned off.
Black ground to Green: 0.81v ac. This should also not have continuity right now as I had the headlight power switch turned off.
@lynnb avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2543
 
Ossessionato
@lynnb avatar
1963 VBB2T
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2543
UTC quote
Following and learning.

Can it be a wire in your bar switch or up at your headlite? But then again if it's the rear brake lite circuit, those wires don't come close to headlite.
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Lynnb wrote:
Following and learning.

Can it be a wire in your bar switch or up at your headlite? But then again if it's the rear brake lite circuit, those wires don't come close to headlite.
I highly doubt it's anything related to wiring in the headset or switches as the brake switch wiring and tail light wiring are independent of anything up in the handlebars. There is only one white wire that connects from headlight switch to tail plate light to turn that on with the lights. This shares a ground in series with the brake light at the tail, but the functionality of the brake light is solely dependent upon this circuit from brake switch to stator plate which skips the brake light until that circuit is broken, in which case the power has no where to go but through the brake light bulb. All of that is not connected in any way to the front of the bike.
@rowdyc avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1346
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
 
Molto Verboso
@rowdyc avatar
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1346
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
UTC quote
Just for giggles clean up the grounds at the rear light. All areas around the rear light and frame where the mounting screws touch metal should be clean.

You can test the light with the stator by running a long wire with alligator clips from stator 's blue wire to the brake bulb wire connection.
A test light works great, too. Just ground it and stick it in the bulb socket to see if it lights up.
UTC

Addicted
PK50XL, PK100S, ET3, Matchless G80S, Honda CBR400RR, Ducati ST4S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 617
Location: UK
 
Addicted
PK50XL, PK100S, ET3, Matchless G80S, Honda CBR400RR, Ducati ST4S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 617
Location: UK
UTC quote
I'm not sure if i have this correct but Black to Blue should always have connectivity.

1. Brake light off - connectivity through brake light switch (and brake light but path of least resistance is through switch?)

2. Brake light on - connectivity through brake light.


Can you separate the 2 blue wires at the junction box. If you isolate the switch side from the brake light side then it might make troubleshooting easier.
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Frustratingly stumped. I removed the tail light fixture from frame and the connections looked fine, but I still disconnected them and cut my own jumper wires. Disconnected the blue and yellow at junction box and then jumped the blue from stator to the tail light fixture brake contact. No work. Cut my own ground wire and connected to the tail light fixture brake ground contact and held against the engine other end. Still no work. Removed the bulb from fixture and just held jumpers to the bulb housing in correct spots. No work with the original 6v 15w bulb. So I tried same with a brand new 6v 10w bulb. Still no work. This is stator blue directly to the bulb itself. So I hooked up the multimeter and checked the blue stator to ground disconnected from everything else. Got a reading of 10v. its generating power, but the bulbs wont light up for some reason. I also tried connecting the yellow to bulb instead of blue.. still no work.

I even reconnected the blue and yellow wires back at the junction box and hooked up the multimeter to the original tail light wires disconnected from the tail light housing. This gave the same 10v power on blue to ground.

So I have no idea what is going on.. the wiring harness wires at the tail light work fine. the lighting fixture works fine. brand new bulbs have continuity when connected to multimeter.. and the stator plate is generating voltage.

I'm gonna try calling Matt at mercato to see if he has any thoughts or suggestions.
blue to black wiring harness disconnected from tail light housing.  10.5v generated with the brake switch removed from the equation.
blue to black wiring harness disconnected from tail light housing. 10.5v generated with the brake switch removed from the equation.
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Replaced the tail light housing and reconnected everything except brake switch i left disconnected, and now i noticed the brake light works but only when the turn signals are on!

This was after i removed the tank to fix a small leak in the fuel tap. While i had the tank out, i tried to see how much slack was in the wiring harness in the tunnel to see if i could find the junction point where the wiring splits off to the brake switch. I'm thinking there is a short in the harness somewhere around this point where the wiring splits off to the headset and brake pedal. It's probably working when turn signals on now because i moved things around when tugging wires and possibly the shorts have made contact with the yellow wire for the turn signals.

Still haven't talked to Matt@mercato but I'm gonna try calling tomorrow to see if it's something just hooked up wrong or if not, what wiring harness they have that will be a direct swap.

Unrelated, I'm still contemplating the level of modification it would require to make a 90ss replica from this frame. I was operating on the assumption this frame length is 1665mm as the smallframes.com page for 100 says it's length is that, and i was going through my technica and other books to figure out which smallframe would be the closest to start from for minimal modifications. I figured a v90 from the technica specs is the closest in terms of measurements cause the overall length is the same as a 90ss at 1650mm.

This got me questioning the smallframe website measurement for this frame length as my v100 came with the original manual which is a v90 manual with printed addendum inserts for v100 unique changes to the specs in the v90 manual. Now it doesn't mention the overall length measurement in the manual, so it got me thinking.. What if smallframe website is wrong, and this is the same exact frame as the v90 given the inclusion of this manual suggests as much.

So I got the tape measure out and measured the overall length using the technica diagram for exact points to measure from. Turns out this frame is exactly the same overall length as both the v90 and 90ss. Also comparing the images of the fenders and engine door, etc it appears everything is exactly the same. Front fender looks to be exact, and the engine door is the same size as the v90 and 90ss engine door, which differs from the 50 engine door size, and also differs from the 100 sport in that this frame does not have a door for battery on the other side cowl, exactly the same as the 90ss.

This makes me think it could be within my capabilities to try to seriously create a replica 90ss as i ideally wouldn't have to cut the frame down to length at the tunnel. Hopefully this means the most frame modifications that would be needed are leg shield cut down to shape for the narrow 90ss leg shield, and i think the 90ss handlebar is narrower and more drop style than the v90 or v100. So I would need to swap the handlebar and speedo for replica 90ss versions. Other than that it's the addition of the glove box fuel tank and the spare tire holder and cover to go under the glove box tank.

Anyone here have a 90ss frame that i could get some measurements off of? Or have done a replica of the 90ss before?

The only other thing related to if the frame doesn't need to be shortened at all is what the measurement of distance from fork tunnel at top of leg shield to front of frame below the front of the seat is?


I found this photo of measurements of the leg shield profile on smallframe message board. So I think this is close enough to get idea of that work now.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@rowdyc avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1346
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
 
Molto Verboso
@rowdyc avatar
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1346
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
UTC quote
The frame needs shortening at the tunnel for the gas tank/glove box to fit correctly or there is noticeable gap. I've seen pictures with it done wrong and pics where done correctly. A guy on Facebook from England does all types of SS90 conversions.

The smallframe bluebadge is a perfect start for a ss90 replica and along with most smallframe with large doors from the early 60's. I can't recall when the length was added but I think somewhere in the late 60's.

There's a lot of info out there.

Good luck!
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
rowdyc wrote:
The frame needs shortening at the tunnel for the gas tank/glove box to fit correctly or there is noticeable gap. I've seen pictures with it done wrong and pics where done correctly.
This was my understanding also, but given the overall length is exactly the same, I'm hoping the frame doesn't need to be shortened with this specific model. If i can find an exact measurement of that gap where the tank mounts then i can know for sure if this frame needs shortening or is good as is.

Essentially my decision on converting this to a 90ss replica depends on if the frame needs to be shortened or not. I'm not confident in cutting the frame and getting it back together and structurally sound by myself. (At least for my first body modification project). But if it's good to go with no gaps as is, and it's just a matter of cutting and shaping the leg shields and swapping a headset, then I'm game!
UTC

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1996
Location: Philadelphia
 
Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1996
Location: Philadelphia
UTC quote
I skipped page 2 so I may have missed the transition, but I love how you went from "this is staying bone stock" to "I could make a 90ss replica" in less than 3 months!
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
FridayMatinee wrote:
I skipped page 2 so I may have missed the transition, but I love how you went from "this is staying bone stock" to "I could make a 90ss replica" in less than 3 months!
Well it was always on my mind from the beginning, buy i never gave it serious thought as every time i researched measurements, i came away with the thought that i would need to cut and shorten the frame. This is not something i want to tackle at the moment or anytime in the near future.

But I kept coming back to the idea and the other night i read up Patrick's unstealth build thread and saw that he either used a 90ss or made a 90ss replica. It got me thinking again, so this time i said f it, I'll go take measurements myself and what do you know.. Overall frame length as far as i can tell is exactly the same!

But yeah, I'm constantly oscillating between leave it bone stock, or tune the crap out of it.

Honestly though, i think if i do end up trying to make a 90ss replica, the engine wouldn't get touched until after the body is complete. I'm looking for a body project that is worth it to attempt instead of just trying to revive the rusty crap p frame i have sitting unused in my garage.
@rowdyc avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1346
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
 
Molto Verboso
@rowdyc avatar
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1346
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
UTC quote
You'll need to cut it. Overall length is not the problem it is tunnel length. Went from short frame to long frame in 69 (giggity) for large door smallframes. Like curve tail to flat tail with largeframes. Don't think they reused the tooling again.

No need to measure. Just stick a tire in it and see if your gap matches this one.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

If it's tight like this, no need to cut.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
rowdyc wrote:
You'll need to cut it. Overall length is not the problem it is tunnel length. Went from short frame to long frame in 69 (giggity) for large door smallframes. Like curve tail to flat tail with largeframes. Don't think they reused the tooling again.

No need to measure. Just stick a tire in it and see if your gap matches this one.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

If it's tight like this, no need to cut.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Ok I'm understanding now, they added tunnel length and shortened the tail or something in transition from 60s to 70s.. Which would keep the overall length the same, but change the gap at the legs. So shortening the tunnel on one of these would also result in a too short overall length replica.

I'm sticking my spare tire in the gap now to confirm.
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Oh well. No easy path with this frame. *Puts idea back on the table for now*

Maybe I should practice cutting a tunnel open and welding it back closed with my crap rusty p125 frame.. Just to get practice and see if i would feel confident in doing a legit replica.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4331
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4331
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
Lengthen the dummy tank, job done!
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
Lengthen the dummy tank, job done!
This is a valid option, but I think I'll leave this as is and if I ever come across a more suitable frame I'll revisit it. But it doesn't sound like this is likely either given suitable replica frames are not widely available either!

Also just spoke to gmontag who gave me the measurement I was seeking and he also mentioned the 66 bluebadge is the closest matching frame to start from.

I found this thread on the vespa smallframe board which suggests the V100 is not a great foundation for an exact replica.
https://vespasmallframeforum.proboards.com/thread/12367/ss90-start
@gmontag avatar
UTC

Addicted
Joined: UTC
Posts: 501
 
Addicted
@gmontag avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 501
UTC quote
The repro 90ss tanks have elongated holes on the bracket part that mounts to the seat area. They would easily fit on a longer frame. It's only 2cm difference.

I think you have a pretty unique bike there and should leave it stock. Old school 4 lug hubs, no ugly USA turn signals or taillight. It's cool.
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
gmontag wrote:
I think you have a pretty unique bike there and should leave it stock. Old school 4 lug hubs, no ugly USA turn signals or taillight. It's cool.
I do quite like it for a slow scooter!

Speaking of, i finally checked ignition with a strobe gun and it was set really low with the marks i made for the original position. I'm sure it's probably my points set wrong or maybe the last owner changed it.

I've got it now set close to the correct 17 degrees.. Probably 18 degrees as i was using a sharpie for my marks. The plate indents are maxed out to get to 18 degrees. I would need to Dremel the plate to allow for it to be set further if for some reason i was trying to go more advanced.

Also took a few pictures of the rewired stator from matt@mercato.

Bike runs much better with the drastically advanced timing... I'm talking it was like 5-10 degrees retarded from 17.

It idles stronger now and has some more torque in first and second. Plug also no longer looks wet and rich, but correct.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Still unable to get the brake light to work. It had some quirky action where it was only working when turn signals on or something.

I said F it and bought a new SIP wiring harness for 6v smallframe with turn signals. Just pulled the headset off and tore the harness out along with all the control cables. Still trying to get the new harness back in with the twine guides I tied to the ends to go through appropriate passages.

Wasn't happening without removing the control cables which were all old and cracked anyways. So to save time I just pulled them without worrying about getting the new ones back in until I'm done with the wiring harness.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
old wires out!
old wires out!
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4300
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4300
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
You're a wild man...
⚠️ Last edited by qascooter on UTC; edited 1 time
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Not that bad of a job in a small frame. But not sure this will solve the problem. Wiring that came out didn't see any obvious shorts anywhere. Either way. New wiring should last a long time now and no longer need to question the validity of what is in there.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Replaced all control cables and wiring through frame.

Swapped the older style rear brake cable with no loop on pedal end, just cable clamp, with the newer p series brake cable with loop end. All i did was remove the cable clamp attached to the locator pin on the brake pedal and the new cable with loop end swaps into the original locator pin.

I'm gonna have to replace some connectors currently on this wiring harness. First, i need to get the flat tabs onto the brake light switch wiring instead of standard female connectors. Brake switch has two flat plate tabs instead. I just ripped them off the original wiring and need to figure out how to get them into the new wires without breaking those tabs. Also the female connectors for the horn on the new harness are too big for the original horn. I'll have to swap those out for smaller. Then it's just working down the line of reconnecting everything and praying for the best!

One other issue i noticed while replacing speedo cable is the fork tube has damage at the indentation for the headset bolt. It's got the start of a hole or stress fracture from the bolt. Not sure how that could happen as i thought this metal tube was thicker than that. I'll leave it for now as i think it's fine as it's not a structural thing, just helps to hold the headset on. But in the future if it gets worse i could see the headset breaking off. So i may need to start keeping an eye out for a smallframe front fork.
New rear brake cable connected to the locator pin instead of the clamp
New rear brake cable connected to the locator pin instead of the clamp
Stress fracture on the indentation for headset bolt.
Stress fracture on the indentation for headset bolt.
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4331
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4331
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
Grease that bearing. Looks really dry…
@christopher_55934 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3547
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
@christopher_55934 avatar
2007 Stella 225
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3547
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
UTC quote
Is that cracked area just a really thin spot, due to the bolt that is there? Looks like the real holding power is the edges where the tubing is full thickness.
⚠️ Last edited by Christopher_55934 on UTC; edited 1 time
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Yes it needs to be greased, and yes i believe it's only the thinnest area from being milled to have the indent for the headset bolt. I agree that it's probably fine as the strength is all in the outer tube area. Sure, if bike was dropped on the handlebars, or if head on collision, then it would probably break, but for normal uses it's probably fine.
@hibbert avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1758
Location: California
 
Molto Verboso
@hibbert avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1758
Location: California
UTC quote
looking good Swiss
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
Because I find this stuff really interesting and this model appears to be an obscurity, at least with specific details available online, I figured I'd throw up scans of the documents I have here. Especially because pretty much all information available online just lumps this model in with the 100 Sport and the wiring diagrams are all wrong between the two. I've scanned the two addendums to the Vespa 90 owners manual that came with this Vespa 100.

The Operation and Maintenance manual that came with the non-sport V100's out of Canada was the Vespa 90 manual document number (V9A1 - Dis. 99748 - 5a. Ed.)

The first addendum details the engine size, ignition, fuel economy and top speed differences, along with wiring diagram for 6v stator with no turn signals or battery which has a document number (Dis. 171723).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GTbteHUye4HJlnZaf75YDQlzGpG6xK6X/

The second addendum details changes to the wiring diagram in the previous addendum.. specifically because the Canadian model had turn signals. This document number is (Dis. 171724).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_Sadr-I7v2bRk-ThlCspsXTTselOFOAB/
Vespa 90 Operation and Maintenance manual (Cover)
Vespa 90 Operation and Maintenance manual (Cover)
Vespa 100 addendum (no turn signal wiring).
Vespa 100 addendum (no turn signal wiring).
Vespa 100 addendum (no turn signal wiring).
Vespa 100 addendum (no turn signal wiring).
Vespa 100 addendum (no turn signal wiring).
Vespa 100 addendum (no turn signal wiring).
Vespa 100 addendum (no turn signal wiring).
Vespa 100 addendum (no turn signal wiring).
Vespa 100 addendum for bikes with turn signals.
Vespa 100 addendum for bikes with turn signals.
Vespa 100 addendum for bikes with turn signals.
Vespa 100 addendum for bikes with turn signals.
Vespa 100 addendum for bikes with turn signals.
Vespa 100 addendum for bikes with turn signals.
Vespa 100 addendum for bikes with turn signals.
Vespa 100 addendum for bikes with turn signals.
⬆️    About 9 months elapsed    ⬇️
OP
@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
@swiss1939 avatar
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
A year and 23 days after picking this up....finally got it running back to completely original!!

Spent the last 6 months tracking down the correct lighting coils to match the original wiring diagram to finally get the bar end signals and brake light working completely stock.

I spent way too much money on the task of getting it fully back to original but I'm glad I did it. OCD wouldn't let me leave it with a working patch.

I bought a SIP 6v stator with wiring for bar end signals and that worked as well, but their stator is using a slightly different wiring design with different coils. The turn signal coil on the SIP one requires a 6v-10w festoon bulb for the bar end signals. But the original diagram/wiring and what was installed on my bike were 6v-18w bulbs. So this meant with the SIP stator, turn signals were way too bright and stayed on instead of flashing. Constant usage would have blown the bulbs and started blowing other bulbs. Simpler solution would have been to go find 6v-10w bulbs for the turn signals, but as I mentioned, my OCD needed to get the original stator working as designed!

First attempt, I tried to find lighting coils that I thought would match by using the wiring diagram and searching for coils that I thought would match to the diagram. This got me part way there, but one of the lighting coils was still wrong and the stator wouldn't get the bike started in that config. I got the correct yellow lighting coil which powers the turn signal lights:
https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Stator-Coils/91414

but the other coil which has green and blue and yellow wires on it I got the wrong one..
https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Stator-Coils/91492

cause I didn't notice that in my photos of the original one, there was a 4th connector on this coil; a bare wire just going to screw ground contact. The original coil has yellow bridging to the ignition coil which then feeds into the points. But because this wasn't the correct coil with yellow to ground, but had continuity with either blue or green (i forget which)... the bike wouldn't start cause the ignition and the lighting coils were all connected instead of being separate circuits.

Next I tried to scour the CEAB website for this damn lighting coil with yellow, blue, green and the extra bare screw ground contact, and even emailed them about it. They referred me to the same coil that I had bought but didn't work, which I think was this CEAB coil: (LU 134/A).

So... going off of many photos I took of the original stator coils which were posted in this thread. I spent a few hours over many separate days across a few different months whenever the urge struck me... searching the internet for this one elusive coil that visually matched the coil in my photos that I could not find. I think I was just randomly searching all spare parts for V9A on the scooter west website when I finally saw the same exact coil right down to the pink paint spot they put on it at the factory. ha! I emailed Scooter West to ask about it and sent photos I had of the original coil and Kevin said it looks to be the same, and that it was NOS (part no. 157445), not a repro.

https://www.scooterwest.com/coil-no-2-v5ss2-up-to-10205-v9a1t-up-to-120489-v9ss1-2-one-ground-green-blue-yellow-pigtails.html

It wasn't too expensive and I'm already couple hundred deep into this damn ocd urge, so I figure what the hell its another 30 bucks, lets just take a chance cause this is literally the only coil I can find online that looks exactly the same.

Finally got the time today to rewire the stator with this coil and lo and behold damn thing started up first kick! Quick check of all the lights and everything worked perfectly!

Lights are so dim but I do not care. I love everything about this scooter exactly the way it is in all its slow, clunky shifting and throttling glory!

And now that I have the correct coil which appears to be not in production anymore, I took resistance measurements and measured the thickness of the magnetic wires with the intention of trying to replicate this coil using a donor coil core.

I can finally put this project to bed, register it and just enjoy it around the back streets at snails pace!

And yes, its idling a little high cause I haven't checked timing yet to set it correctly. It's still running with the f'd up crankshaft keyway and totally destroyed woodruff key that wouldnt come out and was chewed up so much its basically a useless key. So when I put the flywheel on it, I have the key notch marked so I can see it from above and make sure I put the flywheel on in the correct spot. So the flywheel is basically on without a woodruff key.
Here is the elusive coil that has one circuit for head/tail/brake/horn lights (blue/green), and one circuit that bridges to the ignition coil (yellow/bare ground).
Here is the elusive coil that has one circuit for head/tail/brake/horn lights (blue/green), and one circuit that bridges to the ignition coil (yellow/bare ground).
Who knows how long this thing has been in original packaging and sitting on the shelf in San Diego.
Who knows how long this thing has been in original packaging and sitting on the shelf in San Diego.
part no 157445
part no 157445
⚠️ Last edited by swiss1939 on UTC; edited 2 times
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
Brilliant! I love the turn signals.
@hibbert avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1758
Location: California
 
Molto Verboso
@hibbert avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1758
Location: California
UTC quote
Yippee
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1182
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1182
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Congrats on running that down. Dig the bar-end blinkers! Clap emoticon
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0638s ][ Queries: 4 (0.0409s) ][ live ][ 313 ][ ThingOne ]