@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
dsnyder586 wrote:
I *think* I have the answer for posterity:

1. Flywheel side seal- Bearing in first, then two seals (inner and outer) seal with spring side (both) facing the inside of the engine.
2. Clutch side seal- SEAL in first, spring side facing the inside of the motor- then the bearing install from the outside on top of the bearing


Correct?
Is this different on the VSC than rotary bikes?

On those, I've always seen the bearings go in, then the seals.
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
hjo wrote:
Is this different on the VSC than rotary bikes?

On those, I've always seen the bearings go in, then the seals.
It *looks* like it can only go in one way, there is a shoulder the fits from the outside in, same as the bearing. (Clutch side)

I found what I was looking for here:

http://online.fliphtml5.com/qtjt/rbak/#p=217
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Here are some shots from today- I put in the clutch side crank bearing and seal and the rear axle bearing-

Note the only orientation that would work for the clutch side crank seal is from the outside towards the inside, as it has a shoulder that fits exactly in the hole depth and width wise below the bearing.

Should I put the rear axle bearing seal in BEFORE or AFTER putting the axle in?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Inside Crank seal (ignore the shadow, they are in straight)
Inside Crank seal (ignore the shadow, they are in straight)
Inside rear axle bearing
Inside rear axle bearing
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9926
Location: Nashville

69 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9926
Location: Nashville

69 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
I'd put the seal in before the axle, then grease the lip before you install the axle.
@geeklion avatar
UTC

The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1724
Location: PNW from LBC
 
The Dude
@geeklion avatar
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1724
Location: PNW from LBC
UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
I'd put the seal in before the axle, then grease the lip before you install the axle.
Yup. Much more difficult to try and get the seal in straight with the axle in the way
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9926
Location: Nashville

69 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9926
Location: Nashville

69 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
As a general rule, even if you don't have the factory tooln for a task, see what it looks like and you can infer what the state of things should be when that tool is used.

I'm guessing the seal punch for that seal looks like a nipple, which then implies that the axle is not there when the tool is used to install it.
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Thanks, just finished putting the seal in.

I have to say, I am used to throwing engines together quickly so that I can drive to work, or take them for a drive but I am really enjoying taking my time with this motor, adding a couple pieces at a time and doing it methodically. Very Zen. I've put Vespa motors (not to mention Jaguar or Alfa) together in a couple hours, this one will be two weeks.

Thanks for all your help NSM, I am really enjoying the community. Those of you who have gone the extra mile to help me, thanks X1000.

Tomorrow starts the dry fit build- the last step before scratch coat and paint. Pics for progress.

The screw for the brake backing plate at 1 o'clock is not coming out- how do you all get snapped screws out?
Rails! (I did the last one too, but didnt snap a pic.)
Rails! (I did the last one too, but didnt snap a pic.)
Bearings in. Next stop, the gearbox.
Bearings in. Next stop, the gearbox.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4283
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4283
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
dsnyder586 wrote:
The screw for the brake backing plate at 1 o'clock is not coming out- how do you all get snapped screws out?
Bummer. I've used vice grips and heat around the area. Also a dremel wheel to cut a new screw slot. Not much area to work with though. If all else fails you could drill and use a very small easy-out....
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9926
Location: Nashville

69 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9926
Location: Nashville

69 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
What QA said. If there's enough sticking out you can cut a slot in it, that plus some PB Blaster and/or heat is going to be your best bet. If there's not, you're looking at drilling it out, but that's going to be tricking getting a steel screw out of aluminum. Any chance you have access to a drill press for that?

Also, the frame looks amazing. Do the rails on the SS not have endcaps on them?

Lastly your cases are so clean! Did you do that yourself or have them blasted?
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Its recessed ugh. I'll see about a press.

The rails are just a dry fit to let them "settle" into place. This way when I pull them off and paint, they will go back on without much tweaking and paint damage. (fingers crossed)

I had it vapor and dry ice blasted. If I had to do again, I would just vapor blast, it leaves a nice shiny finish.

About $200 for vapor blasting and well worth it. Gonna do the same for the VBA.
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Ok- so I have the crank puller tool, but the attachemnts do not fit the 180 crankshaft- what are all yalls methods to pull it through without harming it?
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9618
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9618
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
dsnyder586 wrote:
Its recessed ugh. I'll see about a press.

....
You could try dropping a nut over it and plug welding the nut to the screw stub. The heat will help loosen it and if you get a good weld, just add some penetrant now and gently back it all out. If that fails, grind the end of the screw as smooth as you can to centerpunch it accurately in the middle, then drill out and retap. Those screws are kinda small for an EZ-out to work well.
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9926
Location: Nashville

69 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9926
Location: Nashville

69 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
dsnyder586 wrote:
Ok- so I have the crank puller tool, but the attachemnts do not fit the 180 crankshaft- what are all yalls methods to pull it through without harming it?
My SIP crank puller has about ten different ends for different threads and stub sizes. I use it for cranks, axles, and all sorts of stuff.

Does yours not?
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
I got 3 ends with mine
@geeklion avatar
UTC

The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1724
Location: PNW from LBC
 
The Dude
@geeklion avatar
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1724
Location: PNW from LBC
UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
My SIP crank puller has about ten different ends for different threads and stub sizes. I use it for cranks, axles, and all sorts of stuff.

Does yours not?
same for me with my SIP puller. Got a variety of threaded ends. Def more than 3 less than 20
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2537
Location: Siam
 
Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2537
Location: Siam
UTC quote
The SIP tool is good as it has every possible fitting needed.

Without the right tool, you can cut a piece of pipe to length and use various large washers on top of it. Then use the crank nut to tighten down over the washers to pull the crank flush.
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
So.... I bought a 12/13 kickstarter gear.... wouldn't engage but only took me about 30 minutes to figure out my mistake.

More waiting, but only an extra day. THEN I can put her together.

For the record, SS takes a 12/12 (12 teeth inside, 12 teeth outside)
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Kickstarter gear received, bottom end is COMPLETE!

Tomorrow, top end and then pop it in the frame- then build her up. Gimme a couple days...maybe even start it?

Also. Kinda leaning back to white. I think it might nag me to know it is SUPPOSED to be white and its red.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Nearly there....
Nearly there....
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
Looks fantastic.

This project is so inspiring. So fast, and improbable. Starting with just a frame.
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Couple fast questions-

1. Does anybody have a pic of the Shield that goes on the back of the motor, using the clutch cover bolts? I need to massage it and want to make sure I get the right bends.

2. What was the original color of the cylider shroud? I am leaning towards painting it black, but wanted some input as it looks like it was originally a greenish hue.

Thanks!
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2537
Location: Siam
 
Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2537
Location: Siam
UTC quote
The original cylinder shrouds I’ve seen are either black wrinkle paint or the weird greenish color. I did mine with black wrinkle paint.
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Ok- torque settings.

How do you convert something like this:

1,5÷1,8 to foot lbs???????

I have found many torque settings for the head, just want the right one.
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
The original cylinder shrouds I’ve seen are either black wrinkle paint or the weird greenish color. I did mine with black wrinkle paint.
Gonna go with steel grey I think. Someone gave me the paint code for white, but now I can't find it!!!! UGGGHHHHHH.

Paint guy was like "Maxmeyer who?" "Cant get PPG colors" Thanks for the help pal.
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Just humming along at a snails pace- company this weekend, so not sure I can get her together BUT I am gonna try.

Engine is pretty much assembled, but I am waiting on period correct wires to complete the stator...may just bite the bullet and use whatever wire....my patience is getting the better of me and the VBA is calling..... Ate least I can now dry fit the entire scooter, even if it doesn't fire up.

Here are some pics to keep you interested.
Closer
Closer
Closerer
Closerer
Closererer
Closererer
BOOM. Settled for steel grey engine paint color for the shroud. The smaller shroud that bolts to the clutch cover will be black I think (or maybe same grey?
BOOM. Settled for steel grey engine paint color for the shroud. The smaller shroud that bolts to the clutch cover will be black I think (or maybe same grey?
With clutch cover dry fitted. Need to finish fine tuning the shield before torqueing the clutch cover.
With clutch cover dry fitted. Need to finish fine tuning the shield before torqueing the clutch cover.
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Also, I cant find the post where someone gave me the white color code in an obtainable brand- if that person would be so kind as to post it here I would be very grateful. I am going with original white, but paint boys cant seem to figure it out from ppg or Maxmeyer codes.
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Also, also I torqued the head bolts to 16 ft lbs, hopefully thats correct.
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
Max Meyer Paint Code: "Hawthorn" 1.298.1715 to frame number VSC1T*0036700* (from Scooter Help)

Or Piaggio 715 in Glasurit paint.

Do I have that right?
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Here is an excerpt from a post I found to be helpful: "I called Kristian at Bar Italia.

He told me they had their Rally matched with a contact at PPG, who gave them Western RV White, PPG DAR 91841. This was a goldmine of a find and I can't thank Kristian enough for sharing the paint code."
@geeklion avatar
UTC

The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1724
Location: PNW from LBC
 
The Dude
@geeklion avatar
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1724
Location: PNW from LBC
UTC quote
dsnyder586 wrote:
Here is an excerpt from a post I found to be helpful: "I called Kristian at Bar Italia.

He told me they had their Rally matched with a contact at PPG, who gave them Western RV White, PPG DAR 91841. This was a goldmine of a find and I can't thank Kristian enough for sharing the paint code."
Rally White and SS Hawthorne White are very different shades of white
@birdsnest avatar
UTC

Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vbc vmb
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8305
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
@birdsnest avatar
VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vbc vmb
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8305
Location: Hustletown, TX
UTC quote
If your PPG dealer cant/wont accommodate try BASF.

See here:
Ghost Stories... A White P200 bit

You want Glasurite PIA 715
Langolson was even kind enough to post the mix label!
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
I pulled the trigger on a white. Hopefully a good white that I matched to the best of my ability.

I'll be spraying a piece of metal before to check.
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Seat upholstery-

Where can I find a good quality seat cover and belt?

I see one at SIP, whats the shipping time from them?
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Ok, most parts dry fitted, found I was missing some stuff so a few more items on the shopping list.
Sporty!
Sporty!
Fun!
Fun!
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9926
Location: Nashville

69 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9926
Location: Nashville

69 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
How long is your rear shock spacer? You look like you're low ridin' a little bit in the back.
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
How long is your rear shock spacer? You look like you're low ridin' a little bit in the back.
Hmm. I used the one already in the frame, may be tired. I'll take measurements before I take it apart.

Let me know if you see anything else, I am making my to do list before paint.
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7155
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7155
Location: So Cal
UTC quote
You might wanna double check the location of the badges

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9926
Location: Nashville

69 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9926
Location: Nashville

69 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
If it's the original spacer, it should be correct unless the new shock is shorter.

It's tough to get things like that right, because even the "Grade A - Perfect repair" stuff is often only approximately correct.

For example, the "correct" replacement spring for my GL wasn't even close. Waaaay too short. I wound up refinishing the original spring to get it right.
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
It might be the angle of the photo, but looks like the bottom of the left side cowl is bowing out just a bit.

The engine side one looks right, though. Might be the perspective.

It's looking so complete!
OP
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 703
Location: OC
UTC quote
Ok, Tail is 9 inches off the ground as per spec
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2537
Location: Siam
 
Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2537
Location: Siam
UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
How long is your rear shock spacer? You look like you're low ridin' a little bit in the back.
This is really important to figure out, especially with an SS or GS. I found out the hard way. If it’s too low, the air box will hit the inside of the cowl over a nice pot hole and you will a nice new outward facing dent in the cowl.
If you go too high with a spacer, then the center stand and front wheel clearance with the ground could become an issue. Have fun with that.
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.1027s ][ Queries: 5 (0.0872s) ][ live ][ 313 ][ ThingOne ]