Smallframe battery door (US market?)
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Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1677
Location: UK (South East)
Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:10 am quote
I keep reading that these things are hard to come by. There is a NOS item on UK eBay at the moment. Nothing to do with me, but worthy of a mention

Expensive + shipping
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1691
Location: Siam
Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:21 am quote
Got an eBay link? Maybe Iíll buy it now, and then sell it ten years from now for ten times what I pay for it now.
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 628
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:01 am quote
Thanks for sharing. May we please see a link?

The issue with the battery door is this. It was primarily, although not exclusively; a US market product. It did show up in other markets, but mostly the US. On every smallie, both doors are known to rattle loose and can fall off while riding. Since the engine door(small & large) is shared by all smallies, it is easier to find an original; and they are available from aftermarket suppliers as well.

The battery door had limited distribution, when comparing to the worldwide market as a whole; and so has not been supported by the aftermarket parts manufacturers. The original doors are falling off more and more as the years go by....and there are less in the market as spares; because they are being bought by the ones who lost their doors on the road!! This is why the left side batter door is hard to find, and value has gone up. it is a vicious cycle! haha.
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1677
Location: UK (South East)
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 628
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:18 am quote
This is not a great example for NOS, But hey, a doors a door. And when you need a door, ya need a door
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8701
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:44 am quote
mannn... i just keep seeing this and thinking: well, that's not outrageous. but what if i bought that and took it over to valley machine and stamp and just had them bang out a bunch. Or, ORRR, i just bucked one and made them in 'glass or fibre?

what's that market like? is there that much of a need?

thoughts?

-g
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8156
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:11 pm quote
Used and a bit scruffy, it just sold for 70 pounds or about $97.50.

I have one NOS that I am looking into using to make tooling so these can be cast up in aluminum. I know stamping them out would be more 'authentic', but have assumed the die cost would be too painful for the small quantity to support. Fiberglass is a problem for anybody who wants to use a good expansion pipe because it's not METAL, which I'd prefer anyway. I'd just get it set up then hook things up with probably Mercato or somebody (maybe Greasy!) I hope then I want to just back out of it, assuming a price point of ~ $100 to the user would work? I imagine the small foundry* I'm talking to could knock out five or ten at a time and make a little money and still leave enough for whoever has to sell them on to us for some kind of an affordable price.

But Greasy, if you have a stamping hookup, I'll send you mine, no need to source offshore!

Any encouragement out there? The door I got from Safis, who's father had a Vespa shop and it is mint.


??????
FOR SALE $100
sturdy cast aluminum
SOME FITTING REQUIRED
guaranteed fireroof



*not my old workplace, this job is to dinky for them
Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 & 96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3944
Location: Oceanside, CA
Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:29 pm quote
Iíll throw some shekels into the collective pot for a decent reproduction. My only bitch would be to make sure the hinges are perfect.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8156
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:42 pm quote
If cast, there would be two ways to do it. Either cast lugs that would be notched in a mill or easier, a raised boss to screw a thick steel tab to which could be bent same as stock. There would be a drilled hole where you'd install the latch.

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5821
Location: So Cal
Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:19 pm quote
Great idea. While weíre at it, letís develop a better latch mechanism. Something with a positive click. The factory latch lets go when it vibrates ... itís whatís responsible for thousands of doors flying off.
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 628
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:25 pm quote
I third, or Third-thousanth getting a replacement door of some kind in the market. The possiblity, and necessity has been discussed at length; for ages both here and other interwebshangsoutsplaces.

There is definitley a need..... how great, hard to say. It depends on what the actual end product is. There are a few ways it could play out. We've thought about it, we've talked bout it, we've even sketched it out.... now which one of us is going to make this happen. Or is this a Captain Planet situation

A few options to make the repops pop:
fiberglass - crappy flimsy garbage: why bother
--- low investment for materials and time, to make cheap trash

fiberglass - high quality with proper fit, strong hinges, latch etc.
*can also do carbon, kevlar, etc.
--- higher investment in materials, even more so in time.

stamped steel - as original: as close to original as possible
*even if slighly lighter gauge steel, these will still sell
--- high upfront cost, but easily reproducable.
------Where is the break even point?

cast aluminum: I'll buy 5 right now. take my money
--- high upfront cost, strong!! and cool and unique.
------How how big is the market for such a custom product?

Other??
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8701
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:34 pm quote
In stamping, biggest upfront is the dies. Problem is, dies start to wear and get sloppy. So you can only knock out so many. But, thinner gauge or even aluminum... little longer life cycle. But then: cost of aluminum v steel, the thinner gauge steel repop? Does it sell at a price point?

The attachment is going to have to be added after the fact. Secondary die or a jig, couple of spot/tack welds or drilled and riveting. There again, more labor invested.

Some type of Ďglass or fiber layup would be fine for about 99% of folks, but for those with a pipe? Not so much.

Latch. I was thinking of some type of ball detent. Like pop two tiny holes in the frame attach mechanism, door holds the lever and positive attachment. Or possibly, some type of magnetic connection along with the standard.

I donít know. Just spitballing. And I havenít been drinking yet so those *good* ideas arenít bubbling up yet.

Also I donít have one sitting right here on my rack to ponder over. But my lizard brain was just rolling it all around.

-g
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5821
Location: So Cal
Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:18 pm quote
Latch: Iím thinking a Dzus fastener

https://southco.com/en_us_int/fasteners/emdzusemreg-quarter-turn-fasteners?p=4

Or maybe a VW glovebox latch



Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8701
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:48 pm quote
That was my immediate. But the pearl clutching from traditionalists...

But F (and thatís a CAPITAL F) that noise. Itís a door, and they donít make them no more. If you donít haves, kajiit house of wares does! You get what you get and you donít get upset.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5821
Location: So Cal
Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:58 pm quote
Yeah, latch can be an option. Better yet, keep the original latch - itíll mean more door sales.
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8701
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:30 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Yeah, latch can be an option. Better yet, keep the original latch - itíll mean more door sales.
Your honor, out of an abundance of caution we here to fore created these ďreplicatedĒ pieces in the original style to exacting specific standards.

So... sucks to be you bro when that shit falls off.

The defense rests.

(also HMU if ya need another)
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 628
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:50 pm quote
greasy125 wrote:
SoCalGuy wrote:
Yeah, latch can be an option. Better yet, keep the original latch - itíll mean more door sales.
Your honor, out of an abundance of caution we here to fore created these ďreplicatedĒ pieces in the original style to exacting specific standards.

So... sucks to be you bro when that shit falls off.

The defense rests.

(also HMU if ya need another)
See, thats where the profit lies. You make it the same so that it falls off, where are they going find another?! It's back to knocking on the old doormans door step!!! Who's laughing now doorstop!

I recommend a locking latch, like this one I got from McMastercarr-


Slightly larger than the original latch. Mounting hole must be enlarged. Available with a regular key, or this security key. This lock is smaller than the ones sold by the scooter shops.


I bent the latch so that it would engage the original detent in the frame. It was a little tricky to get it just right, thankfully the lock came with a spare latch plate ;)

Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 628
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:56 pm quote
I recommend these locks for either door, engine or battery side.

MINIATURE Keyed Cam Lock, Keyed Alike
https://www.mcmaster.com/11125A13/

MINIATURE Circular-keyway Cam Lock, Keyed Alike
https://www.mcmaster.com/13515A64/
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5821
Location: So Cal
Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:31 am quote
Nice find ^
Member
1974 Primavera
Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 14
Location: St george ut
Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:23 am quote
i want one
Hooked
AmeriBodge
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 266
Location: Undisclosed
Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:36 pm quote
I'm having repros stamped. See my thread! metal smallframe / elestart "left" / battery door

Voodoo do you want to loan me yours to make the tooling?
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8156
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:49 pm quote
saturn wrote:
I'm having repros stamped. See my thread! metal smallframe / elestart "left" / battery door

Voodoo do you want to loan me yours to make the tooling?
Aw HELL yeah! It's about time and casting them looks like would likely be more dough anyway in small lots and minimal tooling.

Pm me your phone number, Ace!
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