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Molto Verboso
2003 ET4, 2005 LX 150, 1964 GS 160
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I want to show some photos where rust is... is it bad idea to buy it?
I am planning to strip it down, sand blasting, cut out rust, weld new metal sheet, I have all access to that... been there with my 1967 VW bus full restoration...
I know the frame is one piece... so what do you think? I don't want to make a huge mistake by purchase it
Thanks
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Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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woo... just off the pix that looks rough.

with out a full tear down and blast you really won't know the extent of the damage.

if it's cheap, i'd say go for it. OTOH, you could use the damage as a bargaining chip to get the price down.

either way, just by them pix there's gonna be some major repairs.

-g
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GS deal or no deal
Price and completeness. That will determine whether or not to say, yes. How much is this project GS? I too have owned many (over 100) early V.W. busses and am very familiar with rust and how it can hide. I can tell just from the photos you have of this GS that the floors are shot. Look to strip the floors from the lower legshield, all the way back, off the frame and replace. You most likely also have some structural issues in the lower rear frame. While none of this is irreparable, it may not be worth the effort, and cost. Again, how much money are we talking? You did notice the bondo in floorboards, right?
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Molto Verboso
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talked down to $1,750... it was restored 10 years ago and motor is not running right now
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Molto Verboso
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It's definitely worth $1700. It's very complete, and beautiful.

The frame, though, is in bad shape. It looks like it might not be safe to ride like that.

All the metal pieces are still available, but would take some master metal work to repair. Looks like it needs the wheel arch and new floorboard, at least, and possibly some patching or fabrication where the center channel meets the rear of the frame.
In this one, the frame channel is all eaten away. This provides the stability to the bike.
In this one, the frame channel is all eaten away. This provides the stability to the bike.
This area, too. This is where the spot welds hold on the whole rear of the bike. Looks like there's a lot of body filler here, but the inside part suggests there's rust here.
This area, too. This is where the spot welds hold on the whole rear of the bike. Looks like there's a lot of body filler here, but the inside part suggests there's rust here.
You can still buy all these pieces restamped. Even the frame channel. But very skilled work
You can still buy all these pieces restamped. Even the frame channel. But very skilled work
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Molto Verboso
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Thank you so much for the comment!

Wow I didn't even know there are new metal made!! Just same like VW bus, that's great... I have 1967 vw bus full restoration, I went through with all kind of metal work, cutting, drilling, cleaning and more, so I am not nervous to do that, also that would be fun project

Can you drop a link here where I can look at metal pieces?

Thanks!!
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micbergsma wrote:
it was restored 10 years ago and motor is not running right now
If it was "Restored" 10 years ago? Facepalm emoticon Facepalm emoticon

I'm by no means an expert but holy cow, that's a lot of rust in the tunnel, and the floorboards are bondo city - no metal crease.

You might want to check out this thread to see a bit of what you're up for. Meet "Buffy"

Maybe not as extreme, but there is major work to be done to "Restore" and get rid of that rust. All of this is way out of my skillset....

I usually keep my mouth shut when I see dubious things and people are excited about them. But I've watched a bunch of your maintenance vids on the GTS-250 from back in the day and I loved them all. You do a fantastic job of videoing stuff. I'd hate to see you jump into this and be disappointed....

Either way, I'll be watching this thread to see what comes of it Popcorn emoticon
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It's a GS, mate. If it has the original ULMA chrome, that alone would cover the $1700 price tag. But it's probably not original based on the other incorrect bits I can spot.

Is it safe to ride? I agree with the previous replies.

I would buy it.
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Like some have said, it's a GS160. All the parts, aside from the frame which can be repaired, are easily worth the price it's at.
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Hi mic.

Reality check.

There's a ton of rust on that frame. Deep, serious rust. 10x more rust than you can even see. In hard to repair places. And bondo everywhere. Lots and lots of bondo. Once it's blasted it'll look like Swiss cheese.

This is particularly bad:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

This too, down there at the centerstand bolts:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

I don't think the trim is stainless ULMA. If it is, that's a big plus, but it's more likely regular chrome.

All that said, if you love it and are committed to doing the work, get it. Have fun making it beautiful again. Sounds like you know what you're getting into.
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Molto Verboso
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micbergsma wrote:
Thank you so much for the comment!

Wow I didn't even know there are new metal made!! Just same like VW bus, that's great... I have 1967 vw bus full restoration, I went through with all kind of metal work, cutting, drilling, cleaning and more, so I am not nervous to do that, also that would be fun project

Can you drop a link here where I can look at metal pieces?

Thanks!!
Sure. There are lots of places that sell these. Mostly in Europe. Scooter Center and SIP are good ones. searching "vespa repair sheet" finds a lot.

https://www.scooter-center.com/en/
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en

Just found this in a search:

GS 160 floorboard (yours is pretty gone). Might still need to do fabrication work toward the front. The GS160 has a unique legshield, and those don't appear to be reproduced.
https://www.lambretta-teile.de/Repair-metal-sheet-500x475mm-Vespa-GS160

This is the metal where the rear frame meets the main tunnel.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/repair-sheet-tunnel_PV1539?q=repair%20sheet%20gs

This is the inner fender part of the frame. This is for a Rally, so might be different.
https://www.lambretta-teile.de/Repair-sheet-frame-above-rear-wheel-Vespa-Rally-Sprint-TS-GT-GTR-Super

Your frame tunnel might be ok. I looked closer at the photo, and looks like the metal is there. That's the most crucial part. It provides all the stability.


There are several threads here. This one is good. If you cut away metal where the tunnel meets the frame, it needs to be braced, like this one.
New Floor Install

Here's a blog post about replacing a floorboard.
http://www.vespa-50.com/Chassis/floorboard.html

Here's a video
Bracing the frame
Bracing the frame
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at 1700 i'd snatch that up. the parts alone are worth that.

as noted, all the metal is available it's just a whole ass ton of work.

i'd buy it, blow it apart and blast it and see where i was at. make the decision to abandon ship to go for the glory after seeing the aftermath.

-g
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It's funny how location, scarcity, and demand causes a wide range of values and attitude towards motivation to repair.
Where I am located, that model in that condition would be jumped on immediately at twice that price. The thing is, it would cost a lot less in labor costs here than in the West to properly restore it.
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Molto Verboso
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nomadinsiam wrote:
It's funny how location, scarcity, and demand causes a wide range of values and attitude towards motivation to repair.
Where I am located, that model in that condition would be jumped on immediately at twice that price. The thing is, it would cost a lot less in labor costs here than in the West to properly restore it.
It's amazing to me, too. All these restamped body parts, and re-manufactured pieces. It's fairly new.

20 years ago, there were just a million scooter shops with a salvage yard worth of parts. Need a new Rally frame? We have a couple in the back.

But it's definitely an art, when you can save a rusted frame. It makes me want to learn welding.
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Is it still a gs160 when you have to replace that much metal?
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Good question. I guess as long as it still has the same VIN, then it is.
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Molto Verboso
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I will reply back to y'all but what's big deal about GS 160? I am still learning about old vespas
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Molto Verboso
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The Mk 1 had the sexiest frame of all Vespas and was a revolutionary model. Read here : http://scooterlounge.com/vespa/buyers-guide/vespa-gs-160.shtml
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Molto Verboso
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Ahh yes I noticed that after looking at many models... love fat smooth round body haha...
Moto64 wrote:
The Mk 1 had the sexiest frame of all Vespas and was a revolutionary model. Read here : http://scooterlounge.com/vespa/buyers-guide/vespa-gs-160.shtml
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In the UK for us 50 plus year olds the GS is somewhat an icon as we all got into scooters in the early 80s due to the mod movement. What started it was the film quadrophenia and the album of the same name made by the band The Who. In the album, artwork the main character Jimmy drives a GS scooter. In the film its not actually as GS scooter but badged as one driven by Sting and then driven off beachy head in east Sussex just 25 miles from where I live. There's a great line in the album where Pete Townshend sings I ride my gs scooter with my hair cut neat. Its sort of a cult to want a GS as its where we all started in the UK with the mod scooter revival. Is it the best looking, sure. Is it the best engine, nope.Idtake a rally 200 all day long as that to me is beautiful too with one hell of an engine in its day. If you haven't seen quadrophenia you haven't been born. Try downloading it from somewhere and enlighten yourself.
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ferriswolf wrote:
In the UK for us 50 plus year olds the GS is somewhat an icon as we all got into scooters in the early 80s due to the mod movement. What started it was the film quadrophenia and the album of the same name made by the band The Who. In the album, artwork the main character Jimmy drives a GS scooter. In the film its not actually as GS scooter but badged as one driven by Sting and then driven off beachy head in east Sussex just 25 miles from where I live. There's a great line in the album where Pete Townshend sings I ride my gs scooter with my hair cut neat. Its sort of a cult to want a GS as its where we all started in the UK with the mod scooter revival. Is it the best looking, sure. Is it the best engine, nope.Idtake a rally 200 all day long as that to me is beautiful too with one hell of an engine in its day. If you haven't seen quadrophenia you haven't been born. Try downloading it from somewhere and enlighten yourself.
Some fair points here fella. I think the scooters that went over the cliffs were in fact Rallies badged up as GS's

But then again I maybe wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've read that somewhere, tis a classic British youth culture film + the album of the same name is pure class.

Cgt75b 😎
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Cgt75b wrote:
ferriswolf wrote:
In the UK for us 50 plus year olds the GS is somewhat an icon as we all got into scooters in the early 80s due to the mod movement. What started it was the film quadrophenia and the album of the same name made by the band The Who. In the album, artwork the main character Jimmy drives a GS scooter. In the film its not actually as GS scooter but badged as one driven by Sting and then driven off beachy head in east Sussex just 25 miles from where I live. There's a great line in the album where Pete Townshend sings I ride my gs scooter with my hair cut neat. Its sort of a cult to want a GS as its where we all started in the UK with the mod scooter revival. Is it the best looking, sure. Is it the best engine, nope.Idtake a rally 200 all day long as that to me is beautiful too with one hell of an engine in its day. If you haven't seen quadrophenia you haven't been born. Try downloading it from somewhere and enlighten yourself.
Some fair points here fella. I think the scooters that went over the cliffs were in fact Rallies badged up as GS's

But then again I maybe wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've read that somewhere, tis a classic British youth culture film + the album of the same name is pure class.

Cgt75b 😎
Yes I think you are right . They ended up driving several off the cliff as couldn't get the shot right which was filmed by helicopter. You will see another moment at end end which is quickly cut where Jimmy clearly has an off when he drives over a dip along the cliff approach. This is the actual scooter in film badged as gs.
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swiss1939 wrote:
Is it still a gs160 when you have to replace that much metal?
History's greatest philosophers can't agree on the answer to this question.

It's like, "Is The Who still The Who in 2021?"
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gmontag wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
Is it still a gs160 when you have to replace that much metal?
History's greatest philosophers can't agree on the answer to this question.

It's like, "Is The Who still The Who in 2021?"
Well its a bit like triggers broom in only fools and horses . Get to the end of clip for the parallel connection.
https://youtu.be/LAh8HryVaeY
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Molto Verboso
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[quote="micbergsma"]Ahh yes I noticed that after looking at many models... love fat smooth round body haha...


For me, it is how the curve of the leg shield rolls down through the floor. The only one that did that.
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micbergsma wrote:
I will reply back to y'all but what's big deal about GS 160? I am still learning about old vespas
Haha! Now we understand why you are hesitant to buy it. You don't know what it is. That makes sense now. If the engine alone has all or mostly original parts, it's worth $1,600 to many people. It's just a fairly rare, sought after Vespa model because it looks different and has a unique motor. A problem with you buying it is that the parts are expensive (original parts).
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GS deal or no deal
This GS is a parts scooter at best. I have owned quite a few of these over the years and can assure that this Mark 2 is not worth effort, and cost to do so. Can it be done? Sure, but the metal parts required are not made so modification and fabrication are needed to get you home. As for the value of what is there, that is still hard to guess at as the work on this GS is so bad. A complete, not bodged motor could be worth the price of admission, and if the fork is straight, and not damaged, you could come out ahead on this one, just off of those two components alone. If you want to make a few bucks and get some people some of the parts they are looking for, go for it. But if you have dreams of this GS being a runner that you could safely ride, just say, No.
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I bought it and my friend went to pick it up today
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micbergsma wrote:
I bought it and my friend went to pick it up today
Congratulations! I can't wait to see the progress.
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micbergsma wrote:
I bought it and my friend went to pick it up today
Good man. For fuck sakes, Mr Ebeth would tell all of you naysayers on the frame that it's totally doable. The engine, fork, cowls, mudguard, headset, seat frame, tank, brake drums and glove box if original will add up to a lot more than what you paid for it. I mean shit, the front suspension swing arm is worth a bloody fortune if it's in decent condition. There's a guy here who would probably pay $500 for it.

I'm no expert on these, but I've gone through the process with one. If you need advice, there's a lot of people here who know these bike pretty good. Carry on with it.
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Quote:
love fat smooth round body haha...
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Good luck with the strip n rebuild 😀
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Looking forward to the progress!!
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You made the right move.
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Thank you!! And thanks for your time to list parts and repair links! Putting together a list to order🤙🏼🤙🏼
hjo wrote:
micbergsma wrote:
I bought it and my friend went to pick it up today
Congratulations! I can't wait to see the progress.
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Sorry guys, quick question..

Someone mentioned above the frame being full of "bondo"

Would that be the equivalent of what we call here "bog" or "nicky" (body filler)?
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Burt37 wrote:
Sorry guys, quick question..

Someone mentioned above the frame being full of "bondo"

Would that be the equivalent of what we call here "bog" or "nicky" (body filler)?
You got it! Bondo is brand name for a popularized cheap plastic body filler.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14963
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14963
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
Personally, I'd buzz the paint to attach struts and brace it up, then take it and have it blasted before ordering anything.

That way you know what you're working with.

Hell, the frame could be taco'd with all that rust.

Then you're stuck with a bent rotted out useless frame and a pile of parts you just dropped a grip of coin on.

Brace it. Blast it. Ascertain the situation. *THEN* go from there.

But if you want to reinvent the wheel, by all means my man, forge your own road.
@geeklion avatar
UTC

The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1726
Location: PNW from LBC
 
The Dude
@geeklion avatar
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1726
Location: PNW from LBC
UTC quote
greasy125 wrote:
Personally, I'd buzz the paint to attach struts and brace it up, then take it and have it blasted before ordering anything.

That way you know what you're working with.

Hell, the frame could be taco'd with all that rust.

Then you're stuck with a bent rotted out useless frame and a pile of parts you just dropped a grip of coin on.

Brace it. Blast it. Ascertain the situation. *THEN* go from there.

But if you want to reinvent the wheel, by all means my man, forge your own road.
Solid Advice as always G
@jess avatar
UTC

Petty Tyrant
0:7 And counting
Joined: UTC
Posts: 37329
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
@jess avatar
0:7 And counting
Joined: UTC
Posts: 37329
Location: Bay Area, California
UTC quote
Hey Mitch! I don't have anything to add to this thread, but it's good to see you around. I see you pop up on YouTube now and again, always a treat.
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