OP
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
UTC

MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4797
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
 
MV Santa
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4797
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
UTC quote
Red Cross BMW.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
I don't mean nonsense but the engine doesn't look like BMW to me, it looks like a russian replica...(Dnepr K 750)

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dnepr_K-750_7719.jpg
@dooglas avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
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Posts: 13411
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@dooglas avatar
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
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Posts: 13411
Location: Oregon City, OR
UTC quote
I'm with John. Looks like a Russian flat head copy of a prewar BMW R-12. A number of people have put BMW emblems on these bikes for the heck of it.
OP
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
UTC

MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4797
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
 
MV Santa
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4797
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
UTC quote
Dooglas wrote:
I'm with John. Looks like a Russian flat head copy of a prewar BMW R-12. A number of people have put BMW emblems on these bikes for the heck of it.
I'm sure you're right. I'm not the one you should ask.
@motovista avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9026
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@motovista avatar
GT 2.4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9026
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
UTC quote
I was thinking it looks like one of the Chinese versions of the same bike. Uncle Joe gave the Chairman the dies for the bike after the war, and they cranked out a few in the PRC.
@caschnd1 avatar
UTC

Grumpy Biker
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5443
Location: Sparks, Nevada, USA
 
Grumpy Biker
@caschnd1 avatar
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5443
Location: Sparks, Nevada, USA
UTC quote
Looks like an authentic 1938 BMW R71 to me. Nothing makes me think it's Russian or Chinese (although they did make some copies).

-Craig
@fudmucker avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
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Posts: 2070
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
 
Ossessionato
@fudmucker avatar
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2070
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
UTC quote
The resolution is not high enough for me to read the maker's plates.
Considering that the Russian and Chinese copies are of a genuine BMW design and there were unauthorised East German copies made from genuine BMW parts after the war, more detail investigation is called for before going out on a limb.
The only obvious thing that looks dodgy to me is that the BMW roundel is rivetted on.
The genuine ones are fitted with brass screws for that era.
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
BMW military motorcycles did not have rear shock absorbers.
OP
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
UTC

MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4797
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
 
MV Santa
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4797
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
UTC quote
This should help.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@nightwing avatar
UTC

Contributor
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8568
Location: New Hampshire
 
Contributor
@nightwing avatar
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8568
Location: New Hampshire
UTC quote
So how much did you end up paying for it? Razz emoticon
OP
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
UTC

MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4797
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
 
MV Santa
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4797
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
UTC quote
NightWing wrote:
So how much did you end up paying for it? Razz emoticon
All of my extra cash is tied up in this.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@nightwing avatar
UTC

Contributor
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8568
Location: New Hampshire
 
Contributor
@nightwing avatar
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8568
Location: New Hampshire
UTC quote
Nice Looking '56 Stovebolt.
@tor2ga avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Looking for the next one, probably electric
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Posts: 3654
Location: Babcock Ranch, Florida
 
Ossessionato
@tor2ga avatar
Looking for the next one, probably electric
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3654
Location: Babcock Ranch, Florida
UTC quote
vintage red matthew wrote:
This should help.
Pop rivets aren't exactly period correct.
@burt37 avatar
UTC

Addicted
GTS 300 SS BB
Joined: UTC
Posts: 617
Location: QLD AUS
 
Addicted
@burt37 avatar
GTS 300 SS BB
Joined: UTC
Posts: 617
Location: QLD AUS
UTC quote
NightWing wrote:
So how much did you end up paying for it? Razz emoticon
Not much, considering that the sign clearly state that the bike is NOT for sale...

Display ONLY...
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
Tor2ga wrote:
vintage red matthew wrote:
This should help.
Pop rivets aren't exactly period correct.
Are the rivets the same as those of the BMW brand? You can dress a pig like a king but it will always remain a pig.
@fritz_katzenjammer avatar
UTC

Addicted
'07 GTS250ie "Mechanical Squirrel", '66 Honda Benly, '19 Suzuki 250 cafe "Mouse", '42 Henschel PzKw VI Tiger
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@fritz_katzenjammer avatar
'07 GTS250ie "Mechanical Squirrel", '66 Honda Benly, '19 Suzuki 250 cafe "Mouse", '42 Henschel PzKw VI Tiger
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Location: somewhere deep in the back of the garage...Burlington ONT.
UTC quote
I hate to admit to it but I drove one of those damn things for a few years, it got worse gas mileage than my wife's Ford LTD.

Without being able to crawl over it a bit I'd say it was a Dnepr.... perhaps doing under cover work for the GRU... later the KGB.

That petcock isn't German, the ID plate belongs on the headstock, not the forkleg, which can be changed out, loosing the plate in the process. Those seats aren't Denfields, no self respecting German would ever make a shifter that looks like that, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera....

My own lovely piece of Soviet poo had many nice details.
Like the piece of welding rod sticking out of the back of the frame or the casting sand stick stuck all over the inside of the crankcase or the fuses that automatically blew...regularly... all of them at once!

It was fun though... you just didn't want to depend on it to get you anywhere.

And you always had a pocket full of fuses! At least until I rewired the bitch.
OP
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
UTC

MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4797
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
 
MV Santa
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4797
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
UTC quote
Fritz Katzenjammer wrote:
I hate to admit to it but I drove one of those damn things for a few years, it got worse gas mileage than my wife's Ford LTD.

Without being able to crawl over it a bit I'd say it was a Dnepr.... perhaps doing under cover work for the GRU... later the KGB.

That petcock isn't German, the ID plate belongs on the headstock, not the forkleg, which can be changed out, loosing the plate in the process. Those seats aren't Denfields, no self respecting German would ever make a shifter that looks like that, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera....

My own lovely piece of Soviet poo had many nice details.
Like the piece of welding rod sticking out of the back of the frame or the casting sand stick stuck all over the inside of the crankcase or the fuses that automatically blew...regularly... all of them at once!

It was fun though... you just didn't want to depend on it to get you anywhere.

And you always had a pocket full of fuses! At least until I rewired the bitch.
I know where you are coming from. Everybody thinks a side car is cool until they drive one. I say "drive" because that's what you do. When you put a side car on a motorcycle it is no longer a motorcycle. It's a three wheeled car that you sit on.

I had a vintage Vespa with a side car and it was awful. It pulled one way when accelerating and the other way when braking. It reduced the speed by 20% and it increased the fuel consumption by 50%. It ate rear tires and clutches at a prodigious rate. If the car was empty you were in danger of falling over on a right turn so I carried a 50lb bucket of sand in the car when I went out alone. It was work to drive and my whole upper body would be sore after an hour of driving.

In case you didn't get it I don't care much for side cars but the modern Urals might be a little better because the car wheel has brakes and you can get it where the car wheel is driven.
@fritz_katzenjammer avatar
UTC

Addicted
'07 GTS250ie "Mechanical Squirrel", '66 Honda Benly, '19 Suzuki 250 cafe "Mouse", '42 Henschel PzKw VI Tiger
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@fritz_katzenjammer avatar
'07 GTS250ie "Mechanical Squirrel", '66 Honda Benly, '19 Suzuki 250 cafe "Mouse", '42 Henschel PzKw VI Tiger
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UTC quote
As these thing don't have a differential in the side car drive, you can't use the two wheel drive on the street as it will just push the front wheel straight ahead rather than turning. You don't so much turn these things off road as drift them around a corner, scrubbing off speed and rubber the whole time.

As for side car brakes, they do help it stop straight and hard but the don't really overcome the fact that a sidecar is best described as a deathwish with an axel. They still handle like a drunken pig.

They are just a stupid idea. Yeah, Perhaps I'm a biased but they are just stoopid... with two 'O's!!!
@tor2ga avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Looking for the next one, probably electric
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3654
Location: Babcock Ranch, Florida
 
Ossessionato
@tor2ga avatar
Looking for the next one, probably electric
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3654
Location: Babcock Ranch, Florida
UTC quote
Waiting to hear from Harbinger.
@dooglas avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 13411
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@dooglas avatar
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 13411
Location: Oregon City, OR
UTC quote
Fritz Katzenjammer wrote:
As these thing don't have a differential in the side car drive, you can't use the two wheel drive on the street as it will just push the front wheel straight ahead rather than turning. You don't so much turn these things off road as drift them around a corner, scrubbing off speed and rubber the whole time.

As for side car brakes, they do help it stop straight and hard but the don't really overcome the fact that a sidecar is best described as a deathwish with an axel. They still handle like a drunken pig.

They are just a stupid idea. Yeah, Perhaps I'm a biased but they are just stoopid... with two 'O's!!!
I owned and rode a Ural for a number of years. I have also owned a GTS with Texas sidecar. I think you are being a little hard on them. They are fun IF you know how to ride them. There is, of course, a bit of truth buried in much of what you say.
@dooglas avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 13411
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@dooglas avatar
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 13411
Location: Oregon City, OR
UTC quote
And BTW, you will notice that the fuel tanks on these Russian military rigs looks much like the one in the original photo above, and somewhat different than an R-71.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@fritz_katzenjammer avatar
UTC

Addicted
'07 GTS250ie "Mechanical Squirrel", '66 Honda Benly, '19 Suzuki 250 cafe "Mouse", '42 Henschel PzKw VI Tiger
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@fritz_katzenjammer avatar
'07 GTS250ie "Mechanical Squirrel", '66 Honda Benly, '19 Suzuki 250 cafe "Mouse", '42 Henschel PzKw VI Tiger
Joined: UTC
Posts: 896
Location: somewhere deep in the back of the garage...Burlington ONT.
UTC quote
Dooglas wrote:
Fritz Katzenjammer wrote:
As these thing don't have a differential in the side car drive, you can't use the two wheel drive on the street as it will just push the front wheel straight ahead rather than turning. You don't so much turn these things off road as drift them around a corner, scrubbing off speed and rubber the whole time.

As for side car brakes, they do help it stop straight and hard but the don't really overcome the fact that a sidecar is best described as a deathwish with an axel. They still handle like a drunken pig.

They are just a stupid idea. Yeah, Perhaps I'm a biased but they are just stoopid... with two 'O's!!!
I owned and rode a Ural for a number of years. I have also owned a GTS with Texas sidecar. I think you are being a little hard on them. They are fun IF you know how to ride them. There is, of course, a bit of truth buried in much of what you say.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I like three wheels and learned to powerslide my Jawa/Velorex outfit like a proper fiend... but the damn things are so very unforgiving if you make an error. Hiccup, SNAP, oh my, why am I sitting in this hedge?

Maybe if I wasn't riding the Jawa outfit one day, the solo Jawa the next day then the ex military Triumph and then a cafe racer Gilera on the weekend I wouldn't have kept making those mistakes. One had a left shifter, one had a right, one shift up for up, one shift down for up... confuse your controls for two seconds on the sidecar and you've lost it.
@maggiegirl avatar
UTC

Addicted
2021 Primavera 150 touring, 2016 LXV 150 ie, 1978 Vespa P125, 2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
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Posts: 814
Location: central Illinois USA
 
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@maggiegirl avatar
2021 Primavera 150 touring, 2016 LXV 150 ie, 1978 Vespa P125, 2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 814
Location: central Illinois USA
UTC quote
My first thought was URAL, and the next was wondering if the guy at the plant with 1 ever got all the issues resolved with it....
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
30 years ago I bought, restored and rode a Moto Guzzi Sport 14 with a sidecar from the year 1929.
I went from my city to Siena, in Tuscany for a vintage rally (about 300 km) at a speed of 60 km / h; on more than one occasion I would have liked to bring spare clean underwear.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MG500Sport14_1929R01.JPG
@fudmucker avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2070
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
 
Ossessionato
@fudmucker avatar
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2070
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
UTC quote
Further browsing leads me to the conclusion that the motorcycle is a lkely a Chinese copy of the BMW R71 machine that was NOT produced for military use.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

The Wehrmacht used R12 machines with sidevalve engine and the later R75 with newer OHV engines. In typical BMW philosophy, many components were interchangable between models and cannibalising on the battlefield was common.

They did not have rear shocks - as Attila pointed out.
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
Did the soldiers eat motorcycles?
(joke).
The Italian military motorcycles were anything but interchangeable with each other, the usual individualistic Italians ...
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