P200 upgrades and pairing
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Lurker
64' VMA1T 79' P200E
Joined: 21 Apr 2021
Posts: 3
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:27 am quote
Hello!
I am looking for some advice on tuning and upgrading a 79' p200E. It currently is original, with the addition of a SITO + exhaust pipe and it run's great but I'd love to up the acceleration and the top speed. I possibly have a compression issue, because Iíve been having issues with my top speed being a bit limited. I've been looking around online and the price for a 26/26 and the low end massoli 210 kit isn't horrendous. Would that be an okay pairing? What sort of modifications would you recommend? Lastly, how in depth would this be? (for context, I'm pretty good at wrenching, but this would be my first actual engine upgrade by myself.)
Thanks in advance!!!!
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1683
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:43 am quote
I hadn't worked on a two stroke motor and replacing my first top end wasn't bad, as long as you limit yourself to the task at hand, don't allow scope creep. I would change the top end first and keep the 24/24 if you have one. Also hopefully someone here will chime in that has a 210 kit and can help with a good baseline for jetting a 210 with your carburetor and pipe. Getting jetting dialed in is actually the hardest part. The rest can be bolt on as long as you limit yourself to that from the beginning and make changes as you get more comfortable with what you're doing.
Lurker
64' VMA1T 79' P200E
Joined: 21 Apr 2021
Posts: 3
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:01 am quote
Unfortunately I have one of the weird American 24/24 carbs that was originally jetted to 120/be4/109
It has been described to be as a
"later model P motor with the squared nozzle in the venturi, and airbox spacer."
and pretty much every scooter head has recommended replacing it
Addicted
Stella 2T, P200, Rally 180 Euro
Joined: 06 Jan 2014
Posts: 584
Location: Camden, ME
Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:02 am quote
I would trash the Sito and get a sip road instead. Also like stated above, donít bother with the 26/26. As for upgrading, takes about 30-45mins to swap the cylinder. Extremely easy!

A little more work is tuning with the right jets. You can NOT leave the jets stocks.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1683
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:15 am quote
I bet if you do some looking on here you can find a recipe for the following with jetting.

Malossi 210 Sport
24/24 Carburetor
Sip Road 2
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 995
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:21 am quote
phardie wrote:
Unfortunately I have one of the weird American 24/24 carbs that was originally jetted to 120/be4/109
It has been described to be as a
"later model P motor with the squared nozzle in the venturi, and airbox spacer."
and pretty much every scooter head has recommended replacing it
I would change the carb first and go from there before throwing money at something else. That carb setup is more like gas coming out of a 20/20. Even with the old Sito pipe you will notice a increase in acceleration and the top speed. Open up the carb box inlet to match the carb and maybe drill out float bowl hole to max out the benefits of the real 24/24.

You can always make changes after you have the baseline of how the bike should run without the restrictions of the old carb and stock pipe.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1683
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:18 am quote
rowdyc wrote:
phardie wrote:
Unfortunately I have one of the weird American 24/24 carbs that was originally jetted to 120/be4/109
It has been described to be as a
"later model P motor with the squared nozzle in the venturi, and airbox spacer."
and pretty much every scooter head has recommended replacing it
I would change the carb first and go from there before throwing money at something else. That carb setup is more like gas coming out of a 20/20. Even with the old Sito pipe you will notice a increase in acceleration and the top speed. Open up the carb box inlet to match the carb and maybe drill out float bowl hole to max out the benefits of the real 24/24.

You can always make changes after you have the baseline of how the bike should run without the restrictions of the old carb and stock pipe.
If your going to get a new 24/24 carburetor, get that on and working first, small bites. Then when you switch to a 210 you'll know the carburetor setup is working properly and you'll just need jetting.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1683
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:45 pm quote
https://www.scootering.com/the-vespa-big-box-exhaust-test/

Take a look at this test also, the Sito+ isn't even graphed to 6500 while others are getting closer or past 7000 rpm.

O-tuning in case you haven't seen it.

https://www.scootering.com/scootering-classics-vespa-tuning-upgrades-mega-feature-part-8/

Last edited by Christopher_55934 on Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:24 pm; edited 3 times in total
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2990
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:55 pm quote
They need to update that test as its now 5 years old!
Lurker
64' VMA1T 79' P200E
Joined: 21 Apr 2021
Posts: 3
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:59 pm quote
okay, you guys are the bomb. I'm gonna order or otherwise try and source a 24/24 with proper jetting and go from there! If I decide I need more oomph I'll take your advice and match a 24/24, 210 sport, SIP road. Thanks so much for taking the time to help out!
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1683
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:56 am quote
phardie wrote:
okay, you guys are the bomb. I'm gonna order or otherwise try and source a 24/24 with proper jetting and go from there! If I decide I need more oomph I'll take your advice and match a 24/24, 210 sport, SIP road. Thanks so much for taking the time to help out!
If you need more I would put a SIP 2.0 road on next, it will be a step towards what you want, and help get you setup for the 210.
Hooked
PX
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 131
Location: Bognor Regis
Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:15 am quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
phardie wrote:
okay, you guys are the bomb. I'm gonna order or otherwise try and source a 24/24 with proper jetting and go from there! If I decide I need more oomph I'll take your advice and match a 24/24, 210 sport, SIP road. Thanks so much for taking the time to help out!
If you need more I would put a SIP 2.0 road on next, it will be a step towards what you want, and help get you setup for the 210.
I totally agree, the road 2.0 is the quickest cheapest bang for buck you can fit, IMO.
Addicted
'79 P200, '74 VBC Super, '80 100 Sport (sold to new home!)
Joined: 23 Jan 2012
Posts: 752
Location: 32į 37' 40" N, 117į 2' 53" W
Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:36 am quote
ferriswolf wrote:
Christopher_55934 wrote:
phardie wrote:
okay, you guys are the bomb. I'm gonna order or otherwise try and source a 24/24 with proper jetting and go from there! If I decide I need more oomph I'll take your advice and match a 24/24, 210 sport, SIP road. Thanks so much for taking the time to help out!
If you need more I would put a SIP 2.0 road on next, it will be a step towards what you want, and help get you setup for the 210.
I totally agree, the road 2.0 is the quickest cheapest bang for buck you can fit, IMO.
Road 2 and drill the air filter -- the heart shaped area, if it isn't already. some of the new filters come with that area already opened up. The easiest beginning mod with no consequences if jetted correctly.

Or check The Road XL, its only about 50 bucks more and is the next gen from the 2.0 and if you go to 210 you are also stoked.

There are other exhaust choices out there as well.

Good start, have fun!
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2755
Location: London UK
Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:07 am quote
phardie wrote:
okay, you guys are the bomb. I'm gonna order or otherwise try and source a 24/24 with proper jetting and go from there! If I decide I need more oomph I'll take your advice and match a 24/24, 210 sport, SIP road. Thanks so much for taking the time to help out!
With the euro carb and jetting it will go better. However, unlikely to satisfy. I would get an autolube 26/26E, which will be better suited to what may very well happen next.
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3201
Location: Nashville
Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:31 pm quote
Phardie, the one thing you didn't tell us going into this is what your ability level is.

Are you comfortable splitting cases and opening up ports, or are you wondering how to do an exhaust swap?

And how much more performance are you looking for, and how much reduced reliability/increased maintenance are you willing to sign up for?

If you have the skills and don't mind using them a lot more than on a stock bike, then by all means get the 26/26, the 210, and a SIP Road, then bust out your dremel to open up the ports. It'll give you a lot of performance, but still be damn near as reliable as stock. If you don't introduce air leaks or mess up your jetting.

Also, if you're going to put on a new top end, make sure your get your squish and port timings right would you're at it.

Lastly, welcome to the NSM Dark Side! Share some pictures of your bike!
Enthusiast
Several but down to one 80 P200e
Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 95
Location: Northwest PA
Tue May 04, 2021 6:11 am quote
phardie wrote:
Unfortunately I have one of the weird American 24/24 carbs that was originally jetted to 120/be4/109
It has been described to be as a
"later model P motor with the squared nozzle in the venturi, and airbox spacer."
and pretty much every scooter head has recommended replacing it
Can this be clarified some more or some kind of post or article about it? It has peak my curiousity as I hadn't heard about it. I know some P200's come with the jetting but I was not aware that the 24/24 carb was any different than "normal" 24/24 carb. This is a first seeing someone saying the carb was physically different so I am genuinely curious.
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