Keep blowing bulbs 6v system
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern
Author Message
Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:42 pm quote
So the 6v with its inherent flaws of having no rectifier/regulator and blowing bulbs left and right especially when the wiring and equipment are new an correctly installed. So I went and bought a 6v regulator but has only 2 wires, one ground the other for what ever is being regulated. Thing is it seems like the whole system needs to regulated? What gives and how do i stop burning through bulbs and riding home with no headlight thanks yall



Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1683
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:08 am quote
You are correct in thinking about the entire system. I'm going to be looking into this on a Allstate I'm getting. If your keeping the factory stator, I think you would need to put a regulator on each coil supply line. This device is diverting any voltage over say 7.3 volts ac to ground. So if you put it on the wire connected to the headlight anytime voltage gets over 7.3 volts it will clip the top of the AC signal off.

When looking at a 1958 Allstate it has two wires yellow and a green wire coming from two separate coils. I'm thinking a regulator at the junction box of those wires should reduce voltage spikes and over volt issues. You could attach the lead under the screws for the wiring that is there. In theory this should work, as I said I haven't tried it yet.

https://www.scooterhelp.com/electrics/wiring/VNA1.pdf



http://gpzweb.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/RegRec/GPZacRegulator.html
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 995
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:28 am quote
To use that regulator, power from the stator wires goes to yellow and power out to the switches comes from the yellow wire, too. Black wire is ground to the frame. You could use a two to one connector on the yellow wire of the regulator like the picture. Extra wires are needed from junction box to regulator and regulator back to the junction box.


The correct way to stop the bulbs from blowing is to have a proper stator with the correct wattage 6v bulbs so the system can balance itself. In theory, the bulbs would balance the electrical system if the stator is working correctly. Check the bulbs with the diagram Chris posted above. Also with a multimeter check the power wires from the stator while the motor is running and revving. If you're seeing high voltage (way above 7 volts) there maybe a problem with the stator.

Sometimes adding a 6v regulator just hides another problem.
Enthusiast
PK50XL,PK100S,ET3
Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 55
Location: UK
Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:36 am quote
Does your speedo bulb work?

We went through a few backlight bulbs before i realised that the speedo bulb was blown.

We changed that and touch wood its been ok since.
Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:19 am quote
Yah it started with my tail lights blowing then it seemed like the headlight was good but that went last night. So in theory how many wires can I run to the regulator if need be? Can the regulator take more than 14v (wire one 7v wire two 7v) I'll do the test here in a moment to see what's coming out of the state. Lastly if need be I spend $45 on a huge selection of bulbs and pray everything will do its job. https://www.scooterwest.com/complete-6v-bulb-set-for-vintage-vespa.html
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1683
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:44 am quote
areabaylove wrote:
Yah it started with my tail lights blowing then it seemed like the headlight was good but that went last night. So in theory how many wires can I run to the regulator if need be? Can the regulator take more than 14v (wire one 7v wire two 7v) I'll do the test here in a moment to see what's coming out of the state. Lastly if need be I spend $45 on a huge selection of bulbs and pray everything will do its job. https://www.scooterwest.com/complete-6v-bulb-set-for-vintage-vespa.html
I would use two separate regulators and not connect the two circuits. With AC you have to worry about the phase of each sine wave.
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 995
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:49 am quote
areabaylove wrote:
Yah it started with my tail lights blowing then it seemed like the headlight was good but that went last night. So in theory how many wires can I run to the regulator if need be? Can the regulator take more than 14v (wire one 7v wire two 7v) I'll do the test here in a moment to see what's coming out of the state. Lastly if need be I spend $45 on a huge selection of bulbs and pray everything will do its job. https://www.scooterwest.com/complete-6v-bulb-set-for-vintage-vespa.html
I maybe wrong but I would connect all stator power wires to one screw at the junction box and run a larger quage wire from there to the regulator. From the regulator I'll run a larger guage wire to a screw in junction box and connect all harness wires that powers your horn and lights. Electricity should take the path of less resistance and allow stator power to flow like water and regulate the flow back to the component.

But you'll prob don't need to do any of that if your bulbs gets sorted out correctly. Regarding the $45 for bulbs, it maybe cheaper to order each bulb individually from Mercato but will need to look at a diagram for your specific scooter. BTW, what year and model are you trying to fix?
Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1226
Location: Racing Capital of the World
Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:34 pm quote
Your lighting coil most likely has a floating ground. Putting a regulator on it is not going to help. The light bulbs regulate the wattage; when one goes, they all go. a possible work around is increasing the wattage at the rear running light.

Now that is all hypothetical until we see what stator you are running, but that is my guess anyways.

Last edited by GickSpeed on Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1683
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:40 pm quote
I was thinking about these and converting to 12 vdc, using a regulator and very small battery. Probably a lithium motorcycle battery, small easy to hide and lite.

Then wire for dc every where and be done with it.

https://www.scooterwest.com/high-output-ac-coils-pair-vintage-vespa.html
Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:56 pm quote
rowdyc wrote:
areabaylove wrote:
Yah it started with my tail lights blowing then it seemed like the headlight was good but that went last night. So in theory how many wires can I run to the regulator if need be? Can the regulator take more than 14v (wire one 7v wire two 7v) I'll do the test here in a moment to see what's coming out of the state. Lastly if need be I spend $45 on a huge selection of bulbs and pray everything will do its job. https://www.scooterwest.com/complete-6v-bulb-set-for-vintage-vespa.html
I maybe wrong but I would connect all stator power wires to one screw at the junction box and run a larger quage wire from there to the regulator. From the regulator I'll run a larger guage wire to a screw in junction box and connect all harness wires that powers your horn and lights. Electricity should take the path of less resistance and allow stator power to flow like water and regulate the flow back to the component.

But you'll prob don't need to do any of that if your bulbs gets sorted out correctly. Regarding the $45 for bulbs, it maybe cheaper to order each bulb individually from Mercato but will need to look at a diagram for your specific scooter. BTW, what year and model are you trying to fix?
I like what ur thinking. The only problem I see is that to replace the wire coming out of the regulator I would have to dig into the regulator which doesn't sound good! It's a mid 60's vespa super 150. Also I did the volt test and at idle I get a good seven across-the-board easily. When I rev it up the volts definitely picked up significantly. I think up to 15 volts is what I read!



Addicted
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 995
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:02 pm quote
I take back everything I said. I have no idea what you should do to solve blowing bulbs.
I hope you don't have bigger problems.
I'm out and good luck!
Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1226
Location: Racing Capital of the World
Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:17 pm quote
Wow. No one will know what you have in that thing until you pull the stator. That being said, Iím out.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1683
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:10 pm quote
Did someone convert to 12 volts already?
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1695
Location: Siam
Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:32 pm quote
I have three bikes that run on stock 6 volt systems. There is no regulator on any of the them, and I believe Piaggio never intended any of them to have one. Like someone has already said, if the wiring and stator coils are correct and in good condition and all the bulb wattages are correct, then it works as it should without a regulator.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1683
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:13 am quote
areabaylove wrote:
rowdyc wrote:
areabaylove wrote:
Yah it started with my tail lights blowing then it seemed like the headlight was good but that went last night. So in theory how many wires can I run to the regulator if need be? Can the regulator take more than 14v (wire one 7v wire two 7v) I'll do the test here in a moment to see what's coming out of the state. Lastly if need be I spend $45 on a huge selection of bulbs and pray everything will do its job. https://www.scooterwest.com/complete-6v-bulb-set-for-vintage-vespa.html
I maybe wrong but I would connect all stator power wires to one screw at the junction box and run a larger quage wire from there to the regulator. From the regulator I'll run a larger guage wire to a screw in junction box and connect all harness wires that powers your horn and lights. Electricity should take the path of less resistance and allow stator power to flow like water and regulate the flow back to the component.

But you'll prob don't need to do any of that if your bulbs gets sorted out correctly. Regarding the $45 for bulbs, it maybe cheaper to order each bulb individually from Mercato but will need to look at a diagram for your specific scooter. BTW, what year and model are you trying to fix?
I like what ur thinking. The only problem I see is that to replace the wire coming out of the regulator I would have to dig into the regulator which doesn't sound good! It's a mid 60's vespa super 150. Also I did the volt test and at idle I get a good seven across-the-board easily. When I rev it up the volts definitely picked up significantly. I think up to 15 volts is what I read!
What regulator are you talking about? Are you referring to the stator?

Do you have good bulbs installed again? If you don't and are measuring unloaded AC voltage your output will be wrong. Unloaded as in no headlight to make the system work. This system is a very simplistic and relies on the correct bulbs to load the system.

If your measuring 15 volts with a loaded system I would say you have been converted to 12 volt AC coils at some point.

If you have been converted to 12 volts, you will need to track down correct 12 volt bulbs.
Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:02 pm quote
Its definitely a 6v stator, I just double checked my order! The 15v is from an unloaded test so maybe I just buy a bunch of bulbs of higher v's and see what happens?
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1683
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:46 am quote
areabaylove wrote:
Its definitely a 6v stator, I just double checked my order! The 15v is from an unloaded test so maybe I just buy a bunch of bulbs of higher v's and see what happens?
I would put the proper bulb in and check the AC voltage again, and see what you are getting. Putting in an oversized bulb may draw to much current and melt other components such as a switch terminal, wiring or light coil in the stator if they can't handle the extra current.
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4028
Location: That bushfire place
Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:15 pm quote
In the end, I found 24v bulbs sorted the issue with Speedy
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4028
Location: That bushfire place
Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:05 pm quote
Ohh dear, you may have far BIGGER problems than first anticipated... dat a bodgy bodge for sure!
I suspect the only "Super" bit may be the poorly placed "Super" badge... please read "Bodgespotting" post for further advice
Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

Mon May 10, 2021 8:35 am quote
SubEtherBASS wrote:
In the end, I found 24v bulbs sorted the issue with Speedy
Explain further. An yes I'm aware the bike might be a fake but I still fixed it and life moves on...
  DoubleGood Vespa T-Shirts  
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern
[ Time: 0.0342s ][ Queries: 25 (0.0150s) ][ Debug on ][ Thing Two ]