Looking for advice - transmission cover removal - GTS 250ie
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Member
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 44
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:42 am quote
I decided to bite the bullet and replace my 2005 GTS 250ie's belt and rollers. I watched the YouTube videos and armed with my trusty Haynes shop manual I forged ahead. I followed the instructions but am now stuck as the transmission cover will not come off. I checked, and I rechecked. All the bolts are off and I loosened the air filter cover so I can push it up and out of the way. I removed the oil dipstick.

I started by pulling on the cover by hand but it would not budge so I sprayed P-Blaster on the transmission shaft in case it was rusted and left it overnight. No joy.

I tried using a screwdriver with a thin flat blade but I couldn't get between the rear of the cover and the engine. I went ahead and bought a sliding dent-puller and tried it on the front and rear tabs. That loosened the cover ever so slightly so I can barely get a flat screwdriver blade at the back. I also tried using a thin, flat pry bar but I am worried about breaking something.

Now I can get the cover to "wobble" slightly up and down by hand. I am worried about damaging the edge of the cover if I keep jamming the pry bar back there.

I can barely see the rear metal dowel when I pry out the back of the cover and it just seems like the dowels are holding the cover in place.

I read the MV thread that talks about this problem but nothing seems to work for me. Should I just keep working the pry bar at the back of the cover? There is no way to get at the front to and pry it out.

I can also keep using the sliding hammer tool but I really don't want to damage anything. Can the dowels get stuck like that? I'm running out of options...
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 39540
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:19 am quote
It is usually the dowels that are stuck (spray some PB onto them) - but can be the driven axle as well - does that move in the bearing?
Member
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 44
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:37 am quote
Shaft seems to move with the cover but the whole thing moves so little it's hard to tell. I sprayed some PB in the crack around the dowel locations but difficult to tell how it will make its way in there. It's especially hard to tell with the front one. Will let it sit for a few hours and then take another stab at it.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 39540
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:27 am quote
Have you tried using a piece of wood to go through the wheel area and a rubber hammer to hit the tabs? You might have better luck than with a slide hammer.

You can also use wooden wedges beside the tabs. With the cover wedged, tap the axle shaft in a bit. Rinse, repeat.
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3309
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:57 pm quote
In the workshop we just used to use a heat gun. Apply the heat to the area directly where the dowels are. Do not use a flame of any kind, just the heat gun. Do not use a hair dryer, they heat the area too slowly. You want just the area around the dowel to heat up quickly. It will then just slip off. Guaranteed to work everytime if you do it right.
Member
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 44
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:40 am quote
Thanks for all the advice. It's been very useful.

I have made some progress using small plastic wedges (like the ones used to install ceramic floor tiles). I tapped in multiple wedges around the rear end of the transmission and went as far as I could. Can't fit them under the air filter housing) but it helped loosen the cover up a bit more. It looks like the transmission shaft might be what's holding in the cover. I can wiggle the cover back and forth, or up and down slightly (1/8" or so)but the shaft follows. It does not move in and out at all.

I bought a puller but it uses long bolts. The bolts fit in the slots but there's nothing to hold them in. I have been spraying PB on the shaft and will keep pulling on the cover and see where it goes. It has to give at some point.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 39540
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:02 am quote
Moxie wrote:
Thanks for all the advice. It's been very useful.

I have made some progress using small plastic wedges (like the ones used to install ceramic floor tiles). I tapped in multiple wedges around the rear end of the transmission and went as far as I could. Can't fit them under the air filter housing) but it helped loosen the cover up a bit more. It looks like the transmission shaft might be what's holding in the cover. I can wiggle the cover back and forth, or up and down slightly (1/8" or so)but the shaft follows. It does not move in and out at all.

I bought a puller but it uses long bolts. The bolts fit in the slots but there's nothing to hold them in. I have been spraying PB on the shaft and will keep pulling on the cover and see where it goes. It has to give at some point.
With the cover wedged, give the shaft a 'surprise' with a rubber hammer.
Ossessionato
Blue GTS300 Super 2015, White GTS300 Super 2018
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2832
Location: Sydney, Australia
Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:58 pm quote
jimc wrote:
With the cover wedged, give the shaft a 'surprise' with a rubber hammer.
Another way is to fit a nut (preferably an old used one) on the end of the shaft to protect the end of the shaft, and then give the nut a few hard taps with a steel hammer.
Addicted
GTS 250ie Super, Italjet Velocifero, Scarabeo 150, S50, ET4, ET2
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 649
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Sat May 01, 2021 1:40 pm quote
I'm following this because my ET4 cover is stuck and I have tried everything you listed except hitting it through the wheel.

I will assume that you did remove the nut from the clutch shaft because that will hold the cover on.
Member
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 44
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Sun May 02, 2021 8:37 am quote
Well, I finally got the cover off.

I started by tapping the end of the shaft with a rubber mallet with some wedges inserted near the back of the cover and kept spraying penetrating oil on the shaft but the cover would not budge. Then, I switched to the sliding hammer, inserting the hook in one of the slots next to the shaft and gave it a few good "whacks". The cover eventually popped off.

Looking at the shaft now, I can see there's some rust so that's what was holding it back. I can finally proceed with the belt and roller job.

Thanks everyone for the advice!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 11693
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sun May 02, 2021 10:05 am quote
Moxie wrote:
Well, I finally got the cover off.
Success! Thanks for posting the resolution to your story.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 21794
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Mon May 03, 2021 1:55 pm quote
you need to replace that shaft, pitted rusted shaft will cause this issue again and probably worse next time.
Addicted
GTS 300ie Touring - Signora D'argento
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 779
Location: Limassol, Cyprus
Mon May 03, 2021 7:39 pm quote
old as dirt wrote:
you need to replace that shaft, pitted rusted shaft will cause this issue again and probably worse next time.
Just curious, but wouldn't cleaning the end of the shaft with wire wool to remove traces of rust and then lubricating it not solve the issue?
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3309
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Tue May 04, 2021 12:38 am quote
Yes, you are right Andrew. To the OP, there is no need to replace the shaft. Rust on the shaft end is a common issue and it's not a problem if you just use some wire wool on the shaft and smear a little lithium grease on the shaft. Make sure the inner surface of the bearing in the transmission cover is clean with a tiny smear of lithium grease too. That's all you need to do and is the tech way of doing it. It won't stick again even if you don't take it off for a few years.
Member
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 44
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Tue May 04, 2021 7:29 am quote
Thanks for the tip. I just ordered a new set of cover bolts (plus some other stuff) from Scooterwest so I will take your advice and put some lithium grease on the shaft.

Funny thing, not only was the bearing stuck. The clutch bell and the clutch assembly were also stuck. It was a PITA but I got them all off.

I had already cleaned out the rust off the shaft using steel wool but I will make sure I add some grease before I put everything back together.

Now I must wait for the postman to deliver my package... I just love cross-border shopping.
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3309
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Wed May 05, 2021 6:20 am quote
Well done!
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