Hi again - should I buy an HPE? Too many cons?
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X10 350, Forza 300, GTS300, Majesty 400, TMax 530, Super Cub 125
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 33
Location: Malta
Sun May 02, 2021 2:21 pm quote
Hi all

It's been quite a few years since I sold my GTS300 - I (kinda) fell in love with a Sei Giorni but I'm coming across many complaints on the Italian and German forums about HPE engines burning ridiculous amounts of oil. A few people claimed that their sump was close to empty after just a thousand kilometres!! Has this problem been resolved or is it something HPE owners need to accept and live with?

One German Vespa owner claimed (on YouTube) that he fixed the problem by using 15/50 oil. I'm not too sure about that even though he managed to do 7000kms across Europe with just one 300ml top-up. Has anyone else done this? I'd like to have a relatively problem-free scooter that can do an occasional long trip across Europe every now and then.

Thanks
Hooked
2020 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: 27 Sep 2019
Posts: 414
Location: San Francisco
Sun May 02, 2021 2:58 pm quote
Seems to correlate with how fast you're riding. If you're spending a fair amount of time on the freeway, expect to top up appx. every 1000 miles.

I am in the habit of checking my fluids whenever I wash the Vespa. I keep a bottle of oil with a pump top at home to top up as needed.

The Vespa HPE is the only motorcycle I've owned, but it's a fantastic machine. I wouldn't let fluid keep me from buying one. It does, however, have a significant maintenance cost if you're riding often and paying the dealership for service. Oil and belt get changed every 10,000 km.
Hooked
Supertech 2019 (EURO3/APAC)
Joined: 17 Nov 2020
Posts: 192
Location: Australia
Sun May 02, 2021 4:04 pm quote
significant oil consumption is common on HPE and not a problem as long as you pay attention.

I think mayorofnow is correct in that it relates to driving speed/style

Get an HPE, way better than previous GTS
Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 5635
Location: Latina (Italy)
Mon May 03, 2021 12:59 am quote
mayorofnow wrote:
Oil and belt get changed every 10,000 km.
More or less the same as other scooters of that displacement or less ...
On my previous scooter (Yamaha X Max 250 with engine derived from the old Majesty 250) it was necessary to add 300 grams of oil every 2,000 km. and it was normal, indeed ... I was worried if it didn't consume them.
Simply make a paper with the distances controls and an X to check on those performed (engine oil level, coolant) and hang it on a garage wall; you buy a liter of oil and a liter of coolant and put them on a shelf in view as a souvenir.
Part of the fun is taking care of your vehicle ... it's like having a pet that doesn't piss on the floors.
Hooked
Supertech 2019 (EURO3/APAC)
Joined: 17 Nov 2020
Posts: 192
Location: Australia
Mon May 03, 2021 1:29 am quote
Attila wrote:
it's like having a pet that doesn't piss on the floors.
unless you get an oil or coolant leak etc 🙁
Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 5635
Location: Latina (Italy)
Mon May 03, 2021 2:59 am quote
steelbytes wrote:
Attila wrote:
it's like having a pet that doesn't piss on the floors.
unless you get an oil or coolant leak etc 🙁
It happened to me when I didn't tighten the oil cap tightly but it was my fault.
Enthusiast
2020 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: 20 Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Location: Ventura, CA
Mon May 03, 2021 7:07 am quote
HPE Oil burning
Well, I bought a 2020 HPE in June-July 2020. 1.8K miles. I had an oil change at 600 mi (no excessive burning of oil). I recently checked the Scooter West Robot videos and realized I should check oil (I'm mechanical but a first time scooterist so no perspective). I was a little low after another 1.2K miles and added a little oil to fill (still within limits but on the lower side). I'm not an around town rider -- I've been doing our canyons - not high speed but 45 mph - 65 mph (although for me 45 mph is the sweet spot).

I haven't seen excessive oil burning but again, no perspective.
Ossessionato
2014 Commuter BV350(45,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(11,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(30,000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2584
Location: Orange Park Florida
Mon May 03, 2021 8:31 am quote
I have to add about 2 oz. of oil to both of my BV's every 1,000 miles. I put about 1 oz. of oil in my Honda SH every 200 miles. I carry oil in all my bikes in used weed eater size bottles.
It's probably because I ride them like scalded dogs
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3308
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Wed May 05, 2021 6:57 am quote
High oil use can also be a indication of how someone has 'run-in' the bike, or indeed, not run it in! Riders who ride wide open throttle from new, ignoring the run-in instructions often end up with bikes that use a lot of oil, that is, over and above the normal oil use that virtually all engines consume. Of course this also has the effect of shortening the engines life.

Not saying the OP has done that. But how the bike is treated in the first few hundred miles is crucial in governing how much oil the motor will use or not use as time goes by. One of my riding buddies has the new HPE and he meticulously ran the motor in according to the manufacturers instructions. He now has over 12k miles on the clock and it uses virtually no oil whatsoever. He does a lot of motorway work too, running at 65-70mph for over half of his commute. The motor is quiet and performs really well. It's faster than my GTS300 euro3 bike in acceleration but not top speed. It's a great bike!

I do sometimes marvel at folks who seem surprised when they check their oil only to find it's got almost nothing showing on the dip stick. It isn't the bike that's at fault, it's the owner. All new bikes use more oil than usual for the first few thousands of miles because it takes 5k plus for the GTS motors to fully bed in (conform, wear in, get proper piston ring seal to cylinder). So they use more oil to start with and need more checking to make sure you don't run low of that wonderful oil! If you have an HPE bike that uses some oil (maybe more than you think it should use) and it's still low miles, don't worry. It will most likely improve as long as you ran it in ok. Just check the oil level more often and you'll soon get a feel for how well the conforming process is going. Oil use should get less and less over time. However, if you didn't run it in, or you used a fast run-in technique, the engine will not conform any further and you'll be stuck with a high oil user!

REGARDING OIL: Would strongly advise sticking with the manufacturers recommendation on oil type and grade ie: 5-40 fully synthetic motorcycle oil. Using thicker oil should not be necessary and is detrimental to engine lubrication performance especially at higher revs and during cold starts. Thicker oil reduces flow rate and increases wear if the motor is not designed for it. That would apply particularly to a 15/50. Even in very high temps 5-40 oil will normally be perfectly ok but some owners panic and put in thicker oils. Under extreme hot and arduous conditions (carrying a passenger and luggage in high heat) you could go to 10/40 fully synthetic motorcycle oil. That is ok and will have no or little effect on engine wear. Enjoy!
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Mar 2018
Posts: 1018
Location: Phoenix, AZ.
Wed May 05, 2021 7:15 am quote
I know this is going to sound odd, but is it possible that a number of the HPEs were shipped with a lower oil volume than normal? It is somewhat common among other Piaggio brands to hear of low fluids at the time of purchase. I know the dealers are supposed to check but I doubt most do as they assume, like most of us, that all should be perfect on a newly manufactured moto.
Addicted
2020 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: 24 Mar 2018
Posts: 893
Location: south Texas
Wed May 05, 2021 9:10 am quote
A 2020 HPE owner here. I check oil at least once a week. Right at 1400 miles currently, have added about an ounce since doing the break-in service. I wasn't aware of an oil container with a pump top, as that would make adding small amounts easier with the position of the oil filler opening on the new Vespa compared to my 2009 GTS, which wasn't a pain in the butt to get at (compared to the HPE).
Hooked
Supertech 2019 (EURO3/APAC)
Joined: 17 Nov 2020
Posts: 192
Location: Australia
Wed May 05, 2021 1:16 pm quote
Guzzi Gal wrote:
I know this is going to sound odd, but is it possible that a number of the HPEs were shipped with a lower oil volume than normal? It is somewhat common among other Piaggio brands to hear of low fluids at the time of purchase. I know the dealers are supposed to check but I doubt most do as they assume, like most of us, that all should be perfect on a newly manufactured moto.
In a word: nope.

After 18 months and 13,000km i know how much oil it uses.

Edit: not sure that it is still drinking heavily for last couple of thousand ... definitely was plenty when in the several thousand km range.

PS, yes I did break it in gently, I want my bike to last
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