What colour is this?
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2755
Location: London UK
Mon May 03, 2021 1:39 pm quote
I need to do some painting (get someone else to do some painting). What colour code is this? 2003 PX original metallic gunmetal grey colour.



Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2261
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon May 03, 2021 1:44 pm quote
Jack, it looks like "Grigio Smoky 731/A". I had the same on my old X9 EVO. Do you have the silver sticker near the VIN?? It will be on it...
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2755
Location: London UK
Mon May 03, 2021 2:50 pm quote
Cheers safis. When the sticker wasn't under the seat, I gave up. I'll look tomorrow.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2755
Location: London UK
Tue May 04, 2021 10:49 am quote
You're good. 731/A it is.



Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2261
Location: Veria, Greece
Tue May 04, 2021 11:43 am quote
Thanks! FYI it's a bitch of a colour to match. And "Grigio Excalibur 738/A" is even worse...
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2755
Location: London UK
Wed May 05, 2021 12:36 am quote
To do a rattle can patch up Piaggio sell A solvent basecoat, Water based top coat and gloss laquer. Do all these go together?
Edit : They may not be atctual Piaggio manufactured paints
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5830
Location: So Cal
Wed May 05, 2021 5:56 am quote
What you have is a 2 stage paint job, namely a base coat (the color, in your case metallic grey) and a clear gloss topcoat (the shiny protective part).

Not all base coats are compatible with all topcoats. Normally you wouldn’t use a solvent-borne topcoat over a water-borne base coat. The manufacturer will tell you which top coat to use over which base. Your painter will know. Always read the technical data sheets.

Side note: Gloss topcoats are sometimes generically referred to as “lacquer” when the product actually used is polyurethane, a very different animal.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2755
Location: London UK
Wed May 05, 2021 6:47 am quote
Sure its obvious but still not a great deal clearer for me. The solvent base coat has the grey colour and the water based topcoat has the grey colour. The clear is called 1K.

So I either need the topcoat on its own? Or the base coat and clear? Obviously either option over primer of some rattle can type.

What would the factory have used?
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5830
Location: So Cal
Wed May 05, 2021 7:35 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Still not a great deal clearer. The solvent base coat has the grey colour and the water based topcoat has the grey colour. The clear is called 1K.

So I either need the topcoat on its own. Or the base coat and clear? Obviously either option over primer of some rattle can type.

What would the factory have used?
Yes, it gets confusing.

Paint jobs are single stage or 2-stage. “Single stage” means the color and the gloss are all in the same coat. 2-stage means a base of color is applied first, then a coat of clear gloss is applied.

“1K” and “2K” refer to whether the coating is one-component (uncatalyzed) or whether it has two-parts (a catalyst/hardener added to it). Most rattle cans are 1K. There is an excellent product called Spray Max that offers catalyzed (2K) paint in a can.

2K coatings are superior - more durable and more resistant to chemicals. Also quite toxic.

In your case, the factory would have used either a 1K or 2K metallic basecoat followed by a 2K clear topcoat. Metallics are difficult to apply as a single-stage (but not impossible) because they require a “misting” to get the particles to disperse evenly and tend to stripe or blotch if applied too heavily.

Let’s see some pics of what you’re touching up. Your best bet may be to just get some Spray Max in your color.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
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Location: London UK
Wed May 05, 2021 1:49 pm quote
Thanks for taking the time. I think I get it now. What needs painting is a side panel and mudguard. Don't need to be perfect, just be not obviously crap. Both originals are banged up beyond repair. I have a decent mudguard but no replacement panel yet.
Anything good I should look for on rattle can primer?
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5830
Location: So Cal
Wed May 05, 2021 3:59 pm quote
If it’s bare metal get a “direct to metal” (DTM) or “self-etching” primer. If you’re trying to hide surface imperfections use a “filler primer” or “hi-build primer” that can be sanded. Read the label and follow the instructions and you’ll be fine.
Enthusiast
1959 Allstate w P125x Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 74
Location: Los Angeles
Wed May 05, 2021 7:22 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
If it’s bare metal get a “direct to metal” (DTM) or “self-etching” primer. If you’re trying to hide surface imperfections use a “filler primer” or “hi-build primer” that can be sanded. Read the label and follow the instructions and you’ll be fine.
Just wanted to 2nd SoCal's advice, especially the 2k SprayMax rattle can he recommends. It's a godsend for small jobs like yours. Hope it's available there.
Something else to consider is a glossy topcoat will amplify ANY imperfections in your primer/color coat. Glazing putty helps a lot in that regard.
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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Location: UK (South East)
Wed May 05, 2021 9:48 pm quote
Jack, is this the PX125 that has appeared in your signature bike list? What are your plans for it?
Enthusiast
Piaggio P125X
Joined: 05 Jul 2017
Posts: 60
Location: Finland
Thu May 06, 2021 1:47 am quote
A couple things I learned when painting a VW Beetle in my slightly younger days:

- Any old paint, filler and primer needs to go, you need to get down to bare metal. If you use paint stripper it's a lot less work later compared to grinding it off. If you go with the grinder, use a scotchbrite wheel for the angle grinder, it removes paint faster but doesn't grind down the metal. Only exception is if you have a panel that's perfect but just not the right colour, then you can key it with sandpaper and spray primer, colour and top coat over it as is.
- Treat all metal with self-etching primer first before you do anything.
- Apply a layer of high build / filler primer over that, then any body filler, then a couple counts of filler primer again, sanding in between. If you can see any imperfections at the primer stage, it'll show up much worse in the colour stage.
- Filler primer absorbs moisture, so don't spray it and wait 4 weeks in a damp shed before shooting colour on top. You don't have to worry too much if you just work on it at a normal pace, like shooting a layer per day and sanding in between, just think through the steps and operations ahead of time.
- Colour and topcoat are pretty straight forward.

Metallics aren't very beginner friendly, so I'd probably outsource the work if you're not confident in your abilities. Or to put it another way, I've painted a whole car and a couple of boats, own multiple spray guns and other kit, and I'd think twice before trying metallics. That being said, it's rather small panels, so redoing the colour stage a couple of times until you're pleased isn't that much work nor expensive, so if you're up for a challenge then it might be a nice learning experience. Another great tip I got once is to try and get the primer coats perfect when spraying them, and keep fussing over them trying to get them perfect, that way you get a lot of experience spraying paint working up to the colour coats. And keep in mind that there's no mistake that can't be fixed while you're painting, as long as you stop at that layer and fix it then and there.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2755
Location: London UK
Thu May 06, 2021 2:51 pm quote
swa45 wrote:
Jack, is this the PX125 that has appeared in your signature bike list? What are your plans for it?
You noticed that. Yes, new to me scooter. It's a bit beaten up but it's a newish catalyzed 125. Untouched stock. And pretty much the slowest PX I ever rode. Does about 57mph on the Speedo at its peak. Something like 48mph GPS. That's wide open. Possibly even downhill.
Apart from the bodywork, the engine needs a rebuild and a kit. I have a spare 30mm VHSH which will go on it. VMC, Malossi or quattrini are the options. Not quite sure yet but approaching 30bhp and solid fast road kind of performance is the idea.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2755
Location: London UK
Thu May 06, 2021 2:53 pm quote
Stuggi wrote:
A couple things I learned when painting a VW Beetle in my slightly younger days:

- Any old paint, filler and primer needs to go, you need to get down to bare metal. If you use paint stripper it's a lot less work later compared to grinding it off. If you go with the grinder, use a scotchbrite wheel for the angle grinder, it removes paint faster but doesn't grind down the metal. Only exception is if you have a panel that's perfect but just not the right colour, then you can key it with sandpaper and spray primer, colour and top coat over it as is.
- Treat all metal with self-etching primer first before you do anything.
- Apply a layer of high build / filler primer over that, then any body filler, then a couple counts of filler primer again, sanding in between. If you can see any imperfections at the primer stage, it'll show up much worse in the colour stage.
- Filler primer absorbs moisture, so don't spray it and wait 4 weeks in a damp shed before shooting colour on top. You don't have to worry too much if you just work on it at a normal pace, like shooting a layer per day and sanding in between, just think through the steps and operations ahead of time.
- Colour and topcoat are pretty straight forward.

Metallics aren't very beginner friendly, so I'd probably outsource the work if you're not confident in your abilities. Or to put it another way, I've painted a whole car and a couple of boats, own multiple spray guns and other kit, and I'd think twice before trying metallics. That being said, it's rather small panels, so redoing the colour stage a couple of times until you're pleased isn't that much work nor expensive, so if you're up for a challenge then it might be a nice learning experience. Another great tip I got once is to try and get the primer coats perfect when spraying them, and keep fussing over them trying to get them perfect, that way you get a lot of experience spraying paint working up to the colour coats. And keep in mind that there's no mistake that can't be fixed while you're painting, as long as you stop at that layer and fix it then and there.
Thanks for the tips. Might have a go at it myself now. How much different can it be from spraying an exhaust?
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