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Jet Eye Master
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I need to do some painting (get someone else to do some painting). What colour code is this? 2003 PX original metallic gunmetal grey colour.
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⚠️ Last edited by Jack221 on UTC; edited 3 times
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Jack, it looks like "Grigio Smoky 731/A". I had the same on my old X9 EVO. Do you have the silver sticker near the VIN?? It will be on it...
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Jet Eye Master
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Cheers safis. When the sticker wasn't under the seat, I gave up. I'll look tomorrow.
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Jet Eye Master
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You're good. 731/A it is.
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Thanks! FYI it's a bitch of a colour to match. And "Grigio Excalibur 738/A" is even worse...
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Jet Eye Master
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To do a rattle can patch up Piaggio sell A solvent basecoat, Water based top coat and gloss laquer. Do all these go together?
Edit : They may not be atctual Piaggio manufactured paints
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bodgemaster
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What you have is a 2 stage paint job, namely a base coat (the color, in your case metallic grey) and a clear gloss topcoat (the shiny protective part).

Not all base coats are compatible with all topcoats. Normally you wouldn't use a solvent-borne topcoat over a water-borne base coat. The manufacturer will tell you which top coat to use over which base. Your painter will know. Always read the technical data sheets.

Side note: Gloss topcoats are sometimes generically referred to as "lacquer" when the product actually used is polyurethane, a very different animal.
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Jet Eye Master
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Sure its obvious but still not a great deal clearer for me. The solvent base coat has the grey colour and the water based topcoat has the grey colour. The clear is called 1K.

So I either need the topcoat on its own? Or the base coat and clear? Obviously either option over primer of some rattle can type.

What would the factory have used?
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bodgemaster
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Jack221 wrote:
Still not a great deal clearer. The solvent base coat has the grey colour and the water based topcoat has the grey colour. The clear is called 1K.

So I either need the topcoat on its own. Or the base coat and clear? Obviously either option over primer of some rattle can type.

What would the factory have used?
Yes, it gets confusing.

Paint jobs are single stage or 2-stage. "Single stage" means the color and the gloss are all in the same coat. 2-stage means a base of color is applied first, then a coat of clear gloss is applied.

"1K" and "2K" refer to whether the coating is one-component (uncatalyzed) or whether it has two-parts (a catalyst/hardener added to it). Most rattle cans are 1K. There is an excellent product called Spray Max that offers catalyzed (2K) paint in a can.

2K coatings are superior - more durable and more resistant to chemicals. Also quite toxic.

In your case, the factory would have used either a 1K or 2K metallic basecoat followed by a 2K clear topcoat. Metallics are difficult to apply as a single-stage (but not impossible) because they require a "misting" to get the particles to disperse evenly and tend to stripe or blotch if applied too heavily.

Let's see some pics of what you're touching up. Your best bet may be to just get some Spray Max in your color.
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Jet Eye Master
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Thanks for taking the time. I think I get it now. What needs painting is a side panel and mudguard. Don't need to be perfect, just be not obviously crap. Both originals are banged up beyond repair. I have a decent mudguard but no replacement panel yet.
Anything good I should look for on rattle can primer?
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bodgemaster
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If it's bare metal get a "direct to metal" (DTM) or "self-etching" primer. If you're trying to hide surface imperfections use a "filler primer" or "hi-build primer" that can be sanded. Read the label and follow the instructions and you'll be fine.
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Molto Verboso
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SoCalGuy wrote:
If it's bare metal get a "direct to metal" (DTM) or "self-etching" primer. If you're trying to hide surface imperfections use a "filler primer" or "hi-build primer" that can be sanded. Read the label and follow the instructions and you'll be fine.
Just wanted to 2nd SoCal's advice, especially the 2k SprayMax rattle can he recommends. It's a godsend for small jobs like yours. Hope it's available there.
Something else to consider is a glossy topcoat will amplify ANY imperfections in your primer/color coat. Glazing putty helps a lot in that regard.
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Molto Verboso
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Jack, is this the PX125 that has appeared in your signature bike list? What are your plans for it?
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UTC quote
A couple things I learned when painting a VW Beetle in my slightly younger days:

- Any old paint, filler and primer needs to go, you need to get down to bare metal. If you use paint stripper it's a lot less work later compared to grinding it off. If you go with the grinder, use a scotchbrite wheel for the angle grinder, it removes paint faster but doesn't grind down the metal. Only exception is if you have a panel that's perfect but just not the right colour, then you can key it with sandpaper and spray primer, colour and top coat over it as is.
- Treat all metal with self-etching primer first before you do anything.
- Apply a layer of high build / filler primer over that, then any body filler, then a couple counts of filler primer again, sanding in between. If you can see any imperfections at the primer stage, it'll show up much worse in the colour stage.
- Filler primer absorbs moisture, so don't spray it and wait 4 weeks in a damp shed before shooting colour on top. You don't have to worry too much if you just work on it at a normal pace, like shooting a layer per day and sanding in between, just think through the steps and operations ahead of time.
- Colour and topcoat are pretty straight forward.

Metallics aren't very beginner friendly, so I'd probably outsource the work if you're not confident in your abilities. Or to put it another way, I've painted a whole car and a couple of boats, own multiple spray guns and other kit, and I'd think twice before trying metallics. That being said, it's rather small panels, so redoing the colour stage a couple of times until you're pleased isn't that much work nor expensive, so if you're up for a challenge then it might be a nice learning experience. Another great tip I got once is to try and get the primer coats perfect when spraying them, and keep fussing over them trying to get them perfect, that way you get a lot of experience spraying paint working up to the colour coats. And keep in mind that there's no mistake that can't be fixed while you're painting, as long as you stop at that layer and fix it then and there.
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Jet Eye Master
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swa45 wrote:
Jack, is this the PX125 that has appeared in your signature bike list? What are your plans for it?
You noticed that. Yes, new to me scooter. It's a bit beaten up but it's a newish catalyzed 125. Untouched stock. And pretty much the slowest PX I ever rode. Does about 57mph on the Speedo at its peak. Something like 48mph GPS. That's wide open. Possibly even downhill.
Apart from the bodywork, the engine needs a rebuild and a kit. I have a spare 30mm VHSH which will go on it. VMC, Malossi or quattrini are the options. Not quite sure yet but approaching 30bhp and solid fast road kind of performance is the idea.
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Jet Eye Master
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Stuggi wrote:
A couple things I learned when painting a VW Beetle in my slightly younger days:

- Any old paint, filler and primer needs to go, you need to get down to bare metal. If you use paint stripper it's a lot less work later compared to grinding it off. If you go with the grinder, use a scotchbrite wheel for the angle grinder, it removes paint faster but doesn't grind down the metal. Only exception is if you have a panel that's perfect but just not the right colour, then you can key it with sandpaper and spray primer, colour and top coat over it as is.
- Treat all metal with self-etching primer first before you do anything.
- Apply a layer of high build / filler primer over that, then any body filler, then a couple counts of filler primer again, sanding in between. If you can see any imperfections at the primer stage, it'll show up much worse in the colour stage.
- Filler primer absorbs moisture, so don't spray it and wait 4 weeks in a damp shed before shooting colour on top. You don't have to worry too much if you just work on it at a normal pace, like shooting a layer per day and sanding in between, just think through the steps and operations ahead of time.
- Colour and topcoat are pretty straight forward.

Metallics aren't very beginner friendly, so I'd probably outsource the work if you're not confident in your abilities. Or to put it another way, I've painted a whole car and a couple of boats, own multiple spray guns and other kit, and I'd think twice before trying metallics. That being said, it's rather small panels, so redoing the colour stage a couple of times until you're pleased isn't that much work nor expensive, so if you're up for a challenge then it might be a nice learning experience. Another great tip I got once is to try and get the primer coats perfect when spraying them, and keep fussing over them trying to get them perfect, that way you get a lot of experience spraying paint working up to the colour coats. And keep in mind that there's no mistake that can't be fixed while you're painting, as long as you stop at that layer and fix it then and there.
Thanks for the tips. Might have a go at it myself now. How much different can it be from spraying an exhaust?
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
Started work on the panel. This has been dented, filled and dented again without any painting by the PO.
Got a set of cheap panel beating hammers and decided to give it a go. The plan is to make it not look crap. Not a show winner but acceptable.
I have 2 stage rattle cans ready. Just need to get it ready for paint.
Progress so far.
Some primer next or good enough to fill? What about the rusty bits?
I already started before I took this photo. But close enough to how it was
I already started before I took this photo. But close enough to how it was
Beat it about and cleaned up with 180
Beat it about and cleaned up with 180
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Jack221 wrote:
Started work on the panel. This has been dented, filled and dented again without any painting by the PO.
Got a set of cheap panel beating hammers and decided to give it a go. The plan is to make it not look crap. Not a show winner but acceptable.
I have 2 stage rattle cans ready. Just need to get it ready for paint.
Progress so far.
Some primer next or good enough to fill? What about the rusty bits?
Hard to tell from a photo, but that looks like creep rust coming out of the sides of the filler.
That will come back to haunt someone.
And what is that silver looking filler? Looks scary. JB Weld as body filler?

I'd take that outside on a windy day and put a Mapp gas torch to all that crap filler. Burn and scrape it all off.
Then I'd bang it out, and apply filler of my choosing.
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bodgemaster
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Keep at it. That rust has got to go.
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Jack221 wrote:
Started work on the panel. This has been dented, filled and dented again without any painting by the PO.
The rust under the filler has to go or you're wasting your time.

Grab a wire wheel and have at anywhere there's rust, or cracked paint/filler that might have rust under it. When it's gone, start again.

Otherwise it will bubble soon after you finish it.

Rust, as they say, never sleeps.
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Jack221 wrote:
Started work on the panel. This has been dented, filled and dented again without any painting by the PO.
Got a set of cheap panel beating hammers and decided to give it a go. The plan is to make it not look crap. Not a show winner but acceptable.
I have 2 stage rattle cans ready. Just need to get it ready for paint.
Progress so far.
Some primer next or good enough to fill? What about the rusty bits?
Take your time with the panel beating…

The more time you spend with it, the less filler you’ll end up using… with all the rattling/vibrations it’s just a matter of time before it flexes and cracks

Had to beat both my px panels… feels like it takes forever and you can’t get it right, then suddenly it ends up smooth… first time I did it, felt like it was never going to be ok…

Photo of it before stripping the filler (ridiculous amount of filler) and beating the metal… the original colour of the panel is the small patch of green
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Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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You can also get a rust converting primer for the bare metal. Turns it black.
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned in all these recent body work threads is the distinction between "off-dolly" and "on-dolly" techniques when using a hammer and dolly. Hammering on-dolly stretches the metal, which is something you usually want to avoid. In my experience, you want to do the first 90-95% of the straightening off-dolly (i.e., just to one side of the dolly) and only use the on-dolly technique for final smoothing with light taps.

I did the same job last summer that Jack is doing now. Before and after photos below. Not perfect, but I think it passes the "not obviously crap" test.
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Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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I did some tapping on mine too. The trick with body filler is to remove most of it and allow metal to show through. It can help you discover unseen bumps that you can tap out and sand down again, then apply more filler. Tons of wet sanding with fine grits and several coats of primer. First a rust converter treatment, then 2k epoxy, then high build 2k eurethane that gets sanded smooth down to 2000 grit, always using a cork block.
front panel dent.
front panel dent.
beaten and bondoed.
beaten and bondoed.
cowling.
cowling.
after painting.
after painting.
this is what I uncovered after opening up a crack in the previous paint job.  I would never leave a thick coat of bondo like that.
this is what I uncovered after opening up a crack in the previous paint job. I would never leave a thick coat of bondo like that.
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Wow, so here I go starting a thread to think about doing this but Jack’s already in the thick of it. Nice!!! Keep the pictures coming Jack. 😎
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My goal is also “not obviously crap” 🤣
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nickton wrote:
I did some tapping on mine too. The trick with body filler is to remove most of it and allow metal to show through. It can help you discover unseen bumps that you can tap out and sand down again, then apply more filler. Tons of wet sanding with fine grits and several coats of primer. First a rust converter treatment, then 2k epoxy, then high build 2k eurethane that gets sanded smooth down to 2000 grit, always using a cork block.
Great too see the repair… super thin filler patches…
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Lotta good info here. Having accidentally gone for Boss Mode with my first paint job, shooting two part metal flake, one thing that surprised me was how trivial things affected how the flake laid down.

For example, the spot welds on the glovebox door, even though I filled, sanded, etc. Still showed because the metal flake just didn't want to lay down smoothly on that area. I even sanded down the color coat and re-shot it and it still showed those marks. Microscopic imperfections were all it took, I guess.

Another great paint thread. Now we need a similar thread for getting started with welding. I have some parts of my VBB that are never going to be right without welding, but that's still on my to-learn list.
⬆️    About 9 months elapsed    ⬇️
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Jet Eye Master
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Started working on this scooter again. Have had all the parts for what seems like a year but just no time to do much with them. Until now.

I'll paint the panel last. Weather getting better for doing rattle can in the garden. I left it big dent free and blown over with primer to stop it rusting too much.

Decided it is about time to restore the scooter, which is a PX125 millennium euro catalyser model. These are the last ones fitted with Ducati electrics and have a catalytic convertor. Basically means extra slow but have great potential. Although the scooter will be cleaned up to look factory original, as the new title says the interesting bit will be a Quattrini 172 M1XL, reverse fitted VHSH30 and Bullet177 underneath. Initially as a bolt on kit but next year with the full works and max road tune. Either way, going to be pretty quick. Most write ups reckon it's somewhere over 20 bhp out of the box. And upwards of 30bhp tuned. Looking forward to seeing what happens.

I'll add some pictures later, think they're too big to upload.
This one uploaded. Kit is cool. Very high quality even better than malossi
This one uploaded. Kit is cool. Very high quality even better than malossi
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Good to see this thread revived…!

That quatrinni goodness…….

This would be my dream 150 build
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This is the day it arrived. Not so bad. Going to look the same when finished just with better tyres.
Great potential
Great potential
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Looking forward to following this!
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Work continues. Looking for photos and I'm not so good at documenting progress. Engine out, tank out, stand off, forks stripped.

Going to clean up the engine and fit as a bolt on. Will split and fit a longer crank and longer gearbox once it's been run for a season. For now I have a spare 22 cog. To make 22/68 on the EFL 125 gears. This will be low but ok for now.

Fuel pump fitted under tank. No pictures. Vac hose through the autolube hole to the reed block.
Under tank clean like Scott did it. Pump in there now and bolted up.
Under tank clean like Scott did it. Pump in there now and bolted up.
Engine standard dirty. Even had a mouse living in the swingarm. Stinks.
Engine standard dirty. Even had a mouse living in the swingarm. Stinks.
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Yeah ended up having to buy anti rodent spray (made of cinnamon and peppermint oil) to get rid of them eating the wires and fuel hose.

Had a bunch of chicken wings in my tunnel…

Such a pain to sanitise everything… a lot of germs mate.
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Looking Good Jack…Following this one

A question about the UK MOT….
How strict are they? Can you get this MOT'd after youve done the work or will you need to put back the cat on for the MOT test?
Hope there not so strict like in Switzerland?

Cheers Robbie
@gravelrash2004 avatar
UTC

Addicted
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: UTC
Posts: 511
Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
 
Addicted
@gravelrash2004 avatar
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: UTC
Posts: 511
Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
UTC quote
A lot depends on the testing station.... some are "sympathetic" and turn a blind eye.... some are sticklers and fail it.
Robbie 11 wrote:
Looking Good Jack…Following this one

A question about the UK MOT….
How strict are they? Can you get this MOT'd after youve done the work or will you need to put back the cat on for the MOT test?
Hope there not so strict like in Switzerland?

Cheers Robbie
OP
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4363
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4363
Location: London UK
UTC quote
MOT should be ok, local bike shop will even test with an expansion on.

Stand overhauled, repainted, new feet, some grease. The stand bolts were loose and floor bent slightly on one side. Manged to hammer it a little straighter and not damage the paint. So that's another thing done.

Cleaned up the forks. Brush painted the leg, sip shock fitted, malossi pads, brake fluid change, chrome crest and a new tyre and tubeless rim. Looks half decent now.

Fitted a SIP Speedo with speed sensor. CHT cable, throttle cable and cable choke, were done at the same time as the fuel pump.
That's the frame about done. Engine next.
Slight bend, spoiling an otherwise not bad floor
Slight bend, spoiling an otherwise not bad floor
As far as I dare, without making it worse
As far as I dare, without making it worse
Cleaned up fork. If it's fast enough it will need a better caliper.
Cleaned up fork. If it's fast enough it will need a better caliper.
OP
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4363
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4363
Location: London UK
UTC quote
Still working on it. Engine assembled. As its only a bolt on I just cleaned it up fitted the cylinder and reed block.
Only disappointment is that with the thinnest base gasket, the squish was 1.9mm. This is big. Instructions say it should be 1.5mm. However, there is so much compression it would be difficult to kick over with any more.
Its just on the stock 57mm crank, which could be a little under (didn't measure it). An excuse to change it for a 60mm in the Winter and going by the measurements of the ports, this is what it was destined for. Currently 173/122/25.5 will go fine but not ultra fast. Should be able to pull away, quick change to 4th and ride it like an auto with all that torque.
Engine assembled. Backward carb looks weird. But cool.
Engine assembled. Backward carb looks weird. But cool.
Here's the fuel pump spigot in the reed mainfold. Rubber washer and loctite working ok so far.
Here's the fuel pump spigot in the reed mainfold. Rubber washer and loctite working ok so far.
OP
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4363
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4363
Location: London UK
UTC quote
Finished the panel dent too. General shape is ok enough. Gave it a quick thin coat of primer to see how the filling was looking and this is what happened. Looks like a world map. Why is this? Seems smooth. Been sanded with 180 grit and appears like a skating rink to me.

Finer paper and plenty more coats of primer?
un impressed so far but no runs
un impressed so far but no runs
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9201
Location: Nashville

92 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9201
Location: Nashville

92 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
You probably want to re-skim it, as thinly as you can, then sand it with 320 before you prime again. Final prep sanding with 600 grit

What kind of block are you using when you sand? I use a 1/4" thin foam block on rounded panels.

Also, are you using guide coat to help you find low spots?

Even with all that, I still miss spots...
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