Modern Vespa

A primer surfacer must be painted over body filler to prevent that from happening!

Sanding wet by hand. I'll try it again. Refill, 320 grit, spray it again. This was my guide coat wanted to see if it covered ok and it didn't.

WDC , using this primer. Is this a surfacer too?
https://www.optimasolution.co.uk/aerosols-and-coatings/primer/high-build-primer/

Looks great, Jack!

It is.

But if you can source glaze (aka glaze putty/aka glaze compound) you'll have a much easier job of it. Keep in mind that your high gloss clear-coat will highlight every, little, thing.

Glaze is a little spendy! But in terms of time and effort saved it's worth it, vs multiple coats of sandable primer/surfacer, sanding, re-coating.

And btw, sorry if I came off as an arse in my earlier reply...
"I'll use a filler of my choosing."

This a decent part of my day-job. I've got quite a few fillers to choose from here, depending on what I can get away with in the shortest time possible.

Technique here at 3:00. Adheres to bare metal as well.

The solvent is getting absorbed differently by the different surfaces. The bare metal vs filler/primer vs existing paint, hence the world map.

This will happen with epoxy primer as well, but a filler primer would level out the finish for a base colour coat to sit perfectly on.

If you aim for a cleaner finish, like CM mentioned you'll aim to finish on at least 320 grit… if not you'll always have scratch marks

I use 320 to get the filler smooth, then 600 after high-build primer.

And if you really want the clear coat to shine, you'll want to do a wet sand with 600 before you lay down the final coat. It'll be a royal PITA, but the difference will be significant.

When I fixed my GL, the parts I'd sanded with 600 grit before clearcoat were so much glossier than the rest that I had to go back and do the other panels because they looked dull--and I'd though they looked shiny before the comparison!

So close. Been following all your advices. Rubbing, filling, priming, repeat and repeat and repeat. Now its so close. From this shot I filled some tiny pin marks and and given it another coat.
If this dries any good, I'll rub it with 600, give it a last thin prime, 600 again....and we're done. Ready for actual coloured paint. So excited to see if its any good.
Its not going to be any pro job but hopefully good enough until it falls over in the wind or something.


Hopefully this is it.

Pre this last coat of primer...or maybe the one before that


Last edited by Jack221 on Tue, 07 Jun 2022 18:09:50 +0000; edited 2 times

The worst that will happen with a nice, smooth starting point like that is that you'll have to wet sand it to get the color coat nice n' shiny.

I posted a while back about how to rattle-can the color coat. Used metallic paint as well, which can be really tricky.
Page 8 on the "how to paint" thread.

One addition (particular to cowls) is ONLY spray perpendicular to the surface, to avoid dripping or orange peel. Kind of like a robot paints a car.

If you can, shoot something else(even cardboard) you don't care about with the same primer, to practice on.

Looks great!

Ray8 is the man on advice here, obviously.

I literally taped a piece of cardboard, in a mock spray, and practiced moving the gun and keeping the fake cardboard spray perpendicular to the cowl surface. It's easier said than done.

I literally practiced this for two hours. You heard me right - TWO HOURS, until I felt like I could turn the gun and keep the spray straight, especially on the inside.

After I let my arm have a break, I dialed in the pressure and spray, on a big ass piece of cardboard, purposely going over and under, to see what was what, then went for it.

Your cowl Jack is looking fabulous!

Yeah that is going to look good. You are under selling yourself. Can't wait to see it finished.

that cowl looks very good. Nice work. Layers and layers and layers of primer, and sanding, and work. It will pay off.

Done. Maybe colour today. Doesn't look quite this good in reality, some slight bumps and a high spot but not filling anymore.

QA Two hours gun practice, if I had a gun I'd do it too. This is just a rattle can job on a piece of cardboard, on the ground in the garden. If the colour nearly matches and doesn't run I'll be happy.

RAY that painting thread only has 4 pages. Is there another one? Might be a gem in there that helps me not screw it up.

CM this is two stage. Should it be shiny after just the colour is on? How many coats of colour should I do? and rub down in between?

Based on my GL, since it's two-stage paint, it should have a sheen about like if it was sanded with 600 grit.

This was the legshield after color coat but before top coat.

We have colour. looks just like yours CM. Right colour but flat. This is coats 1 and 2 below. I sanded between and it went really flat. One more coat of colour and that's it. Should I sand the last coat of colour before clear coat? Or not?
And how many coats of clear?


1st coat not sanded

2nd coat not sanded

I only sand between coats if I've messed up something and need to fix it or gone outside the window for chemical bonding of coats. Re-prepping is just so much work and it stretches out the process significantly.

That being said, I wound up having to re-clearcoat a lot of my GL after the accident because I sanded and then re-clearcoated the mudguard and it was so much glossier than the rest of the bike that I wound up having to do the same to other parts that I wouldn't have done otherwise (and I *thought* it was glossy before the accident!).

Nothing needs sanding due to issues, so I'll leave it. How many coats of clear? With sanding between? Or just until I like it?

I did two coats of color, two coats of clear, but wound up with three from the re-coating after the accident. I think two, then if it needs it, sand and shoot the third is probably the best bet. Others know better than I, though, I'm sure.

Three coats, ten minutes between. No sanding.

First coat should look dull.

*Watch this video at around 10:00. Clear-coat lays out differently vs color:

Thanks for that. Watched it all. Seems like I did it about right so far. Three coats of colour on but a small bit of fluff got on it, so light rub and do that once more.

Impressive how the clear goes on. Dull paint just wakes up. Mine doesn't have hardener but hopefully shiny enough to match the original paint.

Panel on then it's road test and MOT time. Can't be long now.

Base coat is ready usually flat…like inside the trunk of any modern car. It is usually just base coated. Only exterior seems to get clear.

I never thought about that until you mentioned it.

Now, this was way better than expected. Colour match is near perfect. See what Safis means about difficult to paint, some of the metal flakes are in clusters but really need to look closely.
Came out great. Put the 125 badge on now and think the paint job would go un-noticed.
Prefect result, thanks for all the help.
I'm feeling a little smug about painting and might buy a project that needs a whole job, we'll see.


Shiny :)

FANTASTIC

Looks great almost better than the OG but probably because it's fresh. Painting requires skill and patience I do not possess.

That looks fantastic! The only real tricks to painting are attention to detail and patience. Well, and the ability to follow directions, but that's really just a subset of attention to detail.

There's an extra level of pride for me to have a scoot that not only goes like crazy, but also looks super-sharp while doing it.

Took the 172 for a ride today. Jetting in getting better. Still running in. 100 miles done. Long ride out Sunday probably another 100 then.....full thrash begins.

Goes really well. Super zippy up to 50mph. Quickly spotted 70mph a couple of times. Feeling like it will just about do 75mph but we'll see when I can hold it at wot.

Not all good news,when revving the nuts off it on the stand while jetting in. There was a flash of light at 9000rpm and it went dark in the garage. Headlight blew. Haven't checked but suspect the regulator is fine but not up to the job. All electrics are stock. 5 pin regulator with battery and AC lights.
What's the options? Is there any additional regulator I can tack on top to keep the AC voltage down at high rpm?

Yeah:

https://www.amazon.com/Trail-Tech-7003-AC01-Universal-Regulator/dp/B00FMVWPKK/ref=asc_df_B00FMVWPKK/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241973068692&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8389171071454739019&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9061104&hvtargid=pla-494074596478&psc=1

If you can wait, I've got an extra laying around here. DM me your address and I'll send it out to you for $0.

Do you have the wiring diagram for your scooter? Maybe a link to one online? Most I have seen have no regulator on AC for lighting.


A lot of options, these are in US, but should give you an idea of what your looking for.

https://www.amazon.com/Trail-Tech-7003-AC01-Universal-Regulator/dp/B00FMVWPKK/ref=asc_df_B00FMVWPKK/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241973068692&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2310411215170684514&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019817&hvtargid=pla-494074596478&psc=1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/391808142028?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=f8IGlM0eTuC&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

It's possible a stock regulator wasn't really up to the task of 9,000 RPM's worth of output, especially if it was already hot from dealing with excess load over a period of time.

Also, regulators fail due to cumulative heat damage over time, so it may be that you just finally pushed it over the edge. Replace it and go on.

Think the stock regulator is working fine but just isn't made for 9000rpm. These are only half wave AC on the euro models. An additional regulator on the AC out, maybe even to DC would do it.
The ones Ray and Chris found I can't get in the UK but they would have been just the job. I'll try to find something similar. This is the wiring

I'd contact Anthony Tambs from Scootronics since he's been doing some pretty nice custom regulators, CDIs, etc.

Mid summer this started playing up and I lost interest in it for a while. When originally built I didn't split the engine and just bolted the kit on to run in. The engine only had about 8,000 miles on it, so thought I would get away with it. I didn't, clutch side oil seal started passing.
I wanted to upgrade it anyway and just brought the plan forward. P200 23/65 primary. P200 bell crank and 6.0mm packer. Exhaust port raised 1.9mm. As well as clutch parts, cruciform, seals etc.
VHSH30 and Bullet177 exhaust as before.
Was a straightforward split and build. Got it going a few months ago and it's great. Before as a 172 it was fine. 22/68 primary and was good for a solid 72mph when held out. Uphill, into wind, anywhere. Lots of torque and comfortable to ride. Now, as a 181 with much higher port timings, it's awake. Accelerates briskly and has topped out at 78mph so far, with possibly a little more to go. If we had 80 on 10s stickers I'd be going for one. Hasn't lost much torque. Will still roll on to over 60mph in 4th up the same big hills. Timing 19 degrees static and squish 1.0mm. Jetting about done and so far so good.


60mm/110 conrod mazz crank in its new home

Matched transfers without welding or filler. New studs too

Whole engine ready to go in. Superficial clean. Clutch and hub get tightened when in for max leverage.

Wow, very nice Jack, very nice!

It's a very cool build.
Interesting you opted for the piston ported tech from Quat.
Also carb reversed.
(What carb r u using?)

But of course - what really caught my eye was the vaunted all black piston top.

Since I dino tuned - I know I'm where the power is.
Temps are good as is throttle response throughout.

I'll have to look and see how the piston top appears.
My fave tune historically - as u know… - has pinky nail washes at ea of the transfer ports.
Rest black.

Do u get a different effect on piston top with the piston port vs rotary intake?

Really liking it now. And with the stainless exhaust it's better for winter riding. Not right now, as -2 and snow but as with typical UK weather, in a week it's supposed to be fine and dry.

Carb still dellorto VHSH30CS. Sharp and responsive. Sounds like a dirt bike. Piston ported reed pulls more charge as the intake is massive, totally unobstructed and near the transfers already. Carb is jetted just over it's limit. The supplied manifold also takes a 34mm, so future upgrade still possible.

Piston top was from running as a 172 with a leaky seal. Still much the same looking into the plug hole as a 181. Road max power is at least one jet bigger than Dyno max power.

Very cool Jack what are the timings now? Does the packer add value aside from accommodating the longer rod?

The 6mm of base packer actually lowers the cylinder. 5mm is for the rod and 1.5mm should be for the long stroke. Stock gasket is missing too. This all drops the squish by 0.7mm to 1.0mm. I'll check my notes but from memory timing is 131/186/27.5

Just checked my notes. Completely wrong timings. Currently is 129/182/26.5

The 131/186/27.5 is a plan for next time, if needed.