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parallelogramerist
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parallelogramerist
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UTC quote
Jack221 wrote:
Mid summer this started playing up and I lost interest in it for a while. When originally built I didn't split the engine and just bolted the kit on to run in. The engine only had about 8,000 miles on it, so thought I would get away with it. I didn't, clutch side oil seal started passing.
I wanted to upgrade it anyway and just brought the plan forward. P200 23/65 primary. P200 bell crank and 6.0mm packer. Exhaust port raised 1.9mm. As well as clutch parts, cruciform, seals etc.
VHSH30 and Bullet177 exhaust as before.
Was a straightforward split and build. Got it going a few months ago and it's great. Before as a 172 it was fine. 22/68 primary and was good for a solid 72mph when held out. Uphill, into wind, anywhere. Lots of torque and comfortable to ride. Now, as a 181 with much higher port timings, it's awake. Accelerates briskly and has topped out at 78mph so far, with possibly a little more to go. If we had 80 on 10s stickers I'd be going for one. Hasn't lost much torque. Will still roll on to over 60mph in 4th up the same big hills. Timing 19 degrees static and squish 1.0mm. Jetting about done and so far so good.
How are you liking the 60mm Mazzy bell crank so far? I'm interested in hearing about the long term durability of it. I'd like to go that route in my obnoxiously red PX210, but i keep hoping that Uncle Tom will make their own version. My only hesitation is that the Mazzy crank don't have any oil slots cuts into small or large con rod. And do you think the pin will require any welding to keep the webs from twisting?
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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Location: Nashville

92 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
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92 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
How are you liking the 60mm Mazzy bell crank so far? I'm interested in hearing about the long term durability of it. I'd like to go that route in my obnoxiously red PX210, but i keep hoping that Uncle Tom will make their own version. My only hesitation is that the Mazzy crank don't have any oil slots cuts into small or large con rod. And do you think the pin will require any welding to keep the webs from twisting?
I'm now on my second Mazzy bell in my GL's (Stella reeded case) motor. It's a pretty solid piece of kit, but...I'm on my second one. The first one lasted over five years, I think. I'd have to dig through old posts here to figure out exactly how long, but it was a long time under hard use, for sure.

The big end pin on the first one worked its way loose and slid in a couple millimeters at one point, demolishing the big end bearing along the way. It's on the shelf, but if I ever get a hydraulic press, I may have a go at repairing it just for the experience. I'll weld the pin if that happens, though.

It made a definite difference in terms of waking the motor up. It was part of a larger new build, so I can't say exactly how much of the difference was the crank vs the any other change, but the GL will happily run at 75 MPH for longer than I'm comfortable sitting at those speeds and will pull over 70 uphill. That's on 22/65 and PX gearing.

Rob Hodge gave me the idea back when he was still active around here and I went for it. Good call on his part.
OP
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Location: London UK
UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
How are you liking the 60mm Mazzy bell crank so far? I'm interested in hearing about the long term durability of it. I'd like to go that route in my obnoxiously red PX210, but i keep hoping that Uncle Tom will make their own version. My only hesitation is that the Mazzy crank don't have any oil slots cuts into small or large con rod. And do you think the pin will require any welding to keep the webs from twisting?
Similar story to CM, Since the Mercur thing Mazz cranks are better. Used them very hard in high hp engines and no issues worse than many other cranks. Biggest disappointment I've had are with the cool looking, expensive Pinasco cranks. Oil slots let as much oil out as in. Not critical imho.
One thing I forgot to mention, this bell crank needed a conversion small end bearing. They were out of stock at the time. I found out an early Yamaha YZ125 small end is the same size, delivered locally and inexpensive. Been running fine.
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
OP
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
It was raining most of today. Been planning to have a look in the 181 cylinder. And while there adjust the port timing, as per the mentioned plan, or there abouts.
Once the cylinder was finally off (These 125 blocks are so much harder to swing the engine). All looked really good, bore smooth, piston black, just fine wear marks. Much to my relief. Been running it quite hard and ridden about 1000 miles now.
Was feeling the power tail off too early and that always means lack of blowdown or low transfers or both.

So, raised the cylinder a little with another base gasket and ground 0.55mm out of the exhaust port to raise it slightly. This is still well under the maximum for this pipe but I only want this to be quick like a touring set up.
I did, find some sloppy work in the exhaust port. As I've now raised approx 2.5mm from original, the port roof was looking like a wizards sleeve. Out with the big burrs and flattened the roof out. Lots of swarf. Polished it after. Much happier now. Could hear the extra port timing on start up. Has even more of a cracking sound when revved. like it.

Timing now at 130/185/27. Not going to be raining tomorrow. Will see what happens out on the road.
Just one careful owner. Poilished and chamfered. Quick wash then ready to get oily again.
Just one careful owner. Poilished and chamfered. Quick wash then ready to get oily again.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
That Port looks fantastic, all polished up. I'm going to do the same next time...

EDIT: I appreciate you explaining what you're doing and why. I'm taking notes!
@108 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
PX 200
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Ossessionato
@108 avatar
PX 200
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UTC quote
Jack221 wrote:
Could hear the extra port timing on start up. Has even more of a cracking sound when revved.
You sure the cracking sound isn't piston rings hitting the roof of the port? Razz emoticon

Sounds like it's gonna be good to ride
OP
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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UTC quote
108 wrote:
You sure the cracking sound isn't piston rings hitting the roof of the port? Razz emoticon

Sounds like it's gonna be good to ride
If I've made the port too wide it's me that will hit the roof.
So far It's that cakaling, rattling sound a 2 stroke expansion makes when the jetting is ok. It got sharper. Might need to raise the needle and up the main now or just change atomiser. Will be fun testing.
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
qascooter wrote:
That Port looks fantastic, all polished up. I'm going to do the same next time...

EDIT: I appreciate you explaining what you're doing and why. I'm taking notes!
Polished does look nice but next time I see it it will be black as usual but will wipe off easier!
Another point I didn't mention. This scooter has a full P200 EFL gearbox and it was pulling really well in 4th from low rpm, too well. This is a sign the port timing is lower than needed for what I want it to go like. I could have upped the gearing but chose to up the powerband. Will have some idea after today's ride. Bright sun and chilly.
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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UTC quote
Definitely better. Still pulls 4th too. Did a 45mph to 70mph 4th gear roll on, directly into heavy wind at one point. This kit on a 3 speed 2 port would be perfect.
Didn't get the jetting completely finished but will do tomorrow. Tried a bigger atomiser but was too rich.
⬆️    About 7 months elapsed    ⬇️
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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UTC quote
Only just seen this thread now... sounds like a lot of fun. Where are you up to with it now?

What jetting did you go with in the VHSH?
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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Definitely is fun. Surprises me how well it pulls the P200 gearing. The VHSH I have is well used, which makes set up less easy.
Settled on a DQ272/U16 with a 182MJ
Someone should put this kit on a 2 port oldie. Would be shocking. If not slightly dangerous.
@ginch avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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UTC quote
Jack221 wrote:
Someone should put this kit on a 2 port oldie. Would be shocking. If not slightly dangerous.
On a VBA it would be the ultimate sleeper!
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Hooked
VBA1T/Px200 iris
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Hooked
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UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
On a VBA it would be the ultimate sleeper!
I think so too !
I have a 150 LML reed engine stock on my VBA and it is already fun to say goodbye to most of stock px !
You have to be quite concentrate to drive it fast, I can't imagine with a motor like Jack !!!
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
If anyone is thinking of doing similar, my kit has been 'permanently adjusted' but even in standard form on a 57mm crank it was a weapon.
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
To help with the hard sell for the oldie, I just saw this on uk eBay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195923755662?hash=item2d9df742

This has pinasco reed cases with the M1X version. Whereas mine is oem cases with the direct cylinder reed induction M1XL version.
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Hooked
VBA1T/Px200 iris
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Hooked
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UTC quote
Jack221 wrote:
To help with the hard sell for the oldie, I just saw this on uk eBay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195923755662?hash=item2d9df742

This has pinasco reed cases with the M1X version. Whereas mine is oem cases with the direct cylinder reed induction M1XL version.
Massive work on this one !!!
30hp and 106mph, the direction damper is hopefully installed ! The work on the fork looks massive as well !
I like this scooter, not the price !!
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Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
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LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
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UTC quote
30hp and 106mph Wha? emoticon

That would make the aerodynamics better than a small sport bike
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Location: London UK
UTC quote
waspmike wrote:
30hp and 106mph Wha? emoticon

That would make the aerodynamics better than a small sport bike
There's no wind resistance on a Dyno.
I expect this will actually do a bit over 80mph on the road. Which is fully scary enough for most.
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Hooked
VBA1T/Px200 iris
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Hooked
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UTC quote
Top speed is measured on a dyno, I don't think that would be possible on the road, it is shaped as a wind barrier and the chassis is not stiff enough, imo
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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Location: Nashville

92 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9210
Location: Nashville

92 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Jack221 wrote:
I expect this will actually do a bit over 80mph on the road. Which is fully scary enough for most.
I find i can only comfortably do more than 70 or 75 on explicitly vetted roads under fairly ideal conditions.

Now that I've done it, I realize I'd rather shorten 4th to get to speed faster with better overlap with third. Live n' learn.
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8515
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8515
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
I had my old Polini 208 up to 82mph gps, but the buffeting on a day with only light winds was a bit scary. But once I backed off to 68 (110kmh) it felt much better! Laughing emoticon
I guess a top speed like that is a good test of the power in your engine and perhaps your jetting but I agree Chandlerman, not where you really need to be.
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