Wed May 05, 2021 5:12 pm

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Wed May 05, 2021 5:12 pm linkquote
Hi all.

I've been on my PX200 now for a couple a years and thinking about upgrading things. Not sure on the year as I can't find anything on my vin numbers, but I'm pretty sure it was the last 200 made for the Japanese market. Probably early 2000s.

I'm wanting a little more pep and torque to handle hills and windy days better. Also to pass older people when they drive slow. I'm thinking a mildly tuned 210 malossi sport tuned pnp style like Mista Freaks....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkF8VHXO8E8&ab_channel=mistaFreakMoPed

I'm not trying to build a high RPM machine and would like to keep it reliable and with autolube.

I probably wont do this until summer, but thinking about parts right now and what I need and this is where I need your guys help. So far this what I have in my Sips notepad.

Racing Cylinder MALOSSI 210 cc Sport 2016 no head
Cylinder Head MMW PX200 for MALOSSI 210cm old/Sport/MHR Other Options or should I just go with the malossi kit with the head? I'm not planning to change the crank just yet, maybe when I have to open up the cases.
Fuel Tap SIP, Fast Flow 2.0 Other Options?
Racing box Exhaust POLINI

Not sure on the carb yet. Would my 24/24si be fine. I've read that the 26/26 are hard to dial in. Also should I go for the polini venturi and pinasco box cover?
Also not sure on the clutch. Mybe I can upgrade it later?

Also gonna order
Puller Combination SIP flywheel/clutch/clutch mounting tool 2.0
Fuel tap remover
Flywheel holder.

Are their any other small bits or tools that I should order this time around? There are no shops around me, so I want to try and figure out what I need to order in one go, or at least most of it. There is an ex vespa mechanic that lives in my town that might help out maybe to match ports.

Thanks in advance.
Thu May 06, 2021 2:33 am

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1997
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1997
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Thu May 06, 2021 2:33 am linkquote
Order a clutch side holder also, not expensive but nice to have if you need to get in there. No reason you can't run the 24/24 initially, I think all the jets you will buy tuning will work for a 26/26 if you decided to go that route later.

What was your decision process behind purchasing Polini box? Nothing wrong with one just curious why you chose it.

Last edited by Christopher_55934 on Thu May 06, 2021 6:39 am; edited 1 time in total
Thu May 06, 2021 3:17 am

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Thu May 06, 2021 3:17 am linkquote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
Order a clutch side holder also, not expensive band nice to have if you need to get in there. No reason you can't run the 24/24 initially, I think all the jets you will buy tuning will work for a 26/26 if you decided to go that route later.

What was your decision process behind purchasing Polini box? Nothing wrong with one just curious why you chose it.
Mista Freaks recommends I think and I like the way it sounds at least on youtube. The big box shoot out also helped me to decide on it.
https://scooterlab.uk/vespa-big-box-exhaust-shootout-feature-2/

I was gonna order the clutch holding tool when I had to open up the clutch side, but yeah for the price may as well. Thanks!

As I said I kind of have an idea on carbs, but if the 26/26 uses the same jets, is there a real benefit upgrading to it? My mechanic friend recommended I try a pwk28, but I really do want to keep things simple and keep the oil pump.
Thu May 06, 2021 5:04 am

Addicted
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 627
Location: Philadelphia
 
Addicted
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 627
Location: Philadelphia
Thu May 06, 2021 5:04 am linkquote
Phangtonpower wrote:
Mista Freaks recommends I think and I like the way it sounds at least on youtube. The big box shoot out also helped me to decide on it.
https://scooterlab.uk/vespa-big-box-exhaust-shootout-feature-2/

I was gonna order the clutch holding tool when I had to open up the clutch side, but yeah for the price may as well. Thanks!

As I said I kind of have an idea on carbs, but if the 26/26 uses the same jets, is there a real benefit upgrading to it? My mechanic friend recommended I try a pwk28, but I really do want to keep things simple and keep the oil pump.
the Polini has more torque but less top end speed. If you're trying to pass old people on the road that may not work out so well. It shaves off about 5mph off the top end compared to the SIP road 2. Has more low end grunt though.
Thu May 06, 2021 5:11 am

Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 4115
Location: Oceanside, CA
 
Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 4115
Location: Oceanside, CA
Thu May 06, 2021 5:11 am linkquote
If matching the cases to the transfers is too much for you don't sweat it! Bolting the kit on will still get you better than stock and you can tackle it later on, as you learn.

24/24 will work fine. Spring for the larger air box though. Jets will be in the high 120s-130s.

You definitely will wear out your stock clutch faster than normal. Buy some corks and stiffer springs and rebuild your clutch this summer, or buy a dedicated stronger clutch.

Buy a flywheel holding tool, flywheel extractor, piston stop and a timing light. You will have to adjust your ignition for any kit you buy other than stock.
Thu May 06, 2021 5:23 am

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Thu May 06, 2021 5:23 am linkquote
FridayMatinee wrote:
the Polini has more torque but less top end speed. If you're trying to pass old people on the road that may not work out so well. It shaves off about 5mph off the top end compared to the SIP road 2. Has more low end grunt though.
Speed limits here aren't that fast to begin with. I thought low end grunt is what I wanted, but maybe not? I try and ride a lot in the mountains, so maybe the polini would be better for climbing? Plus I usually don't go past 5000rmp according to my sip speedo, even if I'm overtaking.
Thu May 06, 2021 5:29 am

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Thu May 06, 2021 5:29 am linkquote
MJRally wrote:
If matching the cases to the transfers is too much for you don't sweat it! Bolting the kit on will still get you better than stock and you can tackle it later on, as you learn.

24/24 will work fine. Spring for the larger air box though. Jets will be in the high 120s-130s.

You definitely will wear out your stock clutch faster than normal. Buy some corks and stiffer springs and rebuild your clutch this summer, or buy a dedicated stronger clutch.

Buy a flywheel holding tool, flywheel extractor, piston stop and a timing light. You will have to adjust your ignition for any kit you buy other than stock.
Good to know about matching the cases, but I really would love the mechanic to help out so i can learn too. I've seen his work and he's very capable and I think he's at least down to help with timing and all that.
Thanks for the advice!! Now to research more about clutches.
Thu May 06, 2021 7:02 am

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1997
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1997
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Thu May 06, 2021 7:02 am linkquote
Phangtonpower wrote:
Speed limits here aren't that fast to begin with. I thought low end grunt is what I wanted, but maybe not? I try and ride a lot in the mountains, so maybe the polini would be better for climbing? Plus I usually don't go past 5000rmp according to my sip speedo, even if I'm overtaking.
Your reasoning is exactly why I asked, you have thought through what you want and why. I agree that climbing hills, slow speed limit and not revving past 5000 RPM much are all good reasons to get a box made for torque.

As for jetting, using the same assortment of jets doesn't mean you've accomplished nothing, with a larger carburetor 26/26 later on this case. I buy jets as an assortment such as a 10 pack from SIP. I also bought air correctors in a pack of 120, 140 and 160. You may use a jet a few sizes larger or go to a smaller air corrector.
Thu May 06, 2021 8:29 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5378
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5378
Location: San Diego, CA
Thu May 06, 2021 8:29 am linkquote
for a torque oriented build I think you should consider the Polini in addition to the Malossi. In fact, I will commit heresy and suggest the Pinasco 210 should be in the mix too.

It's really the ideal time to think about what you want before you've spent lots of money!
Thu May 06, 2021 9:10 am

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Thu May 06, 2021 9:10 am linkquote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
Your reasoning is exactly why I asked, you have thought through what you want and why. I agree that climbing hills, slow speed limit and not revving past 5000 RPM much are all good reasons to get a box made for torque.

As for jetting, using the same assortment of jets doesn't mean you've accomplished nothing, with a larger carburetor 26/26 later on this case. I buy jets as an assortment such as a 10 pack from SIP. I also bought air correctors in a pack of 120, 140 and 160. You may use a jet a few sizes larger or go to a smaller air corrector.
To be fair I didn't know about what Friday said, but I'm glad he brought it up and I'm thinking in the right direction.

Japan is notorious for slow speed limits, so I'm not interested at all in top speeds.

I already have a main jets Bgm pack. My PX came with a sito, but I don't think the place I got it from upjetted.

Appreciate all your feed back!
Thu May 06, 2021 9:17 am

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Thu May 06, 2021 9:17 am linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
for a torque oriented build I think you should consider the Polini in addition to the Malossi. In fact, I will commit heresy and suggest the Pinasco 210 should be in the mix too.

It's really the ideal time to think about what you want before you've spent lots of money!
I really wanted to go the pinasco route, but decided on the malossi because of its track record. Hopefully I don't go balls to the walls with it and it lasts me. Even if I do, I'm in no rush. Ride as is setup properly for what I have planned now and maybe a year or 2 after I can figure out what else I want it to do.

Right now I want to build an optimized reliable mild tuning if that's a thing?
Fri May 07, 2021 2:05 pm

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Fri May 07, 2021 2:05 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
for a torque oriented build I think you should consider the Polini in addition to the Malossi. In fact, I will commit heresy and suggest the Pinasco 210 should be in the mix too.

It's really the ideal time to think about what you want before you've spent lots of money!
I noticed in another thread that you recommend a different head for the mallosi.
sdjohn wrote:
yeah that stock Malossi head has too high compression ratio for average Joe tourer's bike.
The MMW heads have been out of stock for a while on SIP. What are the advantages/disadvantages of high compression for the average Joe?
Fri May 07, 2021 2:16 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8447
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8447
Location: seattle/athens
Fri May 07, 2021 2:16 pm linkquote
Phangtonpower wrote:
.... Now to research more about clutches.
Honda CR80 clutch disk page, what have you got?

You might consider this and spend the extra money you save on nicer shocks or new tires etc, if your stock 7 spring clutch is in decent shape.
Fri May 07, 2021 2:22 pm

Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 4115
Location: Oceanside, CA
 
Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 4115
Location: Oceanside, CA
Fri May 07, 2021 2:22 pm linkquote
I wouldn't be afraid of the Pinasco kit. I believe it comes with a head. 215 kit bolts on with the 57mm crank. Power band is super linear so perfect for everyday uses/windy days. Sadly won't give you a neck snapping shit eating grin, but it's useable power just like a tractor.
Fri May 07, 2021 2:22 pm

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Fri May 07, 2021 2:22 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
Honda CR80 clutch disk page, what have you got?

You might consider this and spend the extra money you save on nicer shocks or new tires etc, if your stock 7 spring clutch is in decent shape.
The bike was rebuilt when I got it and has been running strong since I got it. I was thinking of getting the BGM clutch, but may consider this. Thanks!!

Got new Pirellis last year, so I'm good on tires for now. I was going to upgrade shocks, but so far I don't see the need to do so. I'm not saying I wont, but for now they're doing their job.
Fri May 07, 2021 3:14 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5378
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5378
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri May 07, 2021 3:14 pm linkquote
MJRally wrote:
I wouldn't be afraid of the Pinasco kit. I believe it comes with a head. 215 kit bolts on with the 57mm crank. Power band is super linear so perfect for everyday uses/windy days. Sadly won't give you a neck snapping shit eating grin, but it's useable power just like a tractor.
this is exactly what I was thinking - it sounds like just what he's asking for.

scope the project to what your actual needs are and you will save tons of money and probably some grief. I went really deep down my rabbit hole with the Malossi 210 - I learned a lot and had some good times but TBH I'm much more of a mind to keep things simple on my next project. there's a reason I kept my smallie DR130 and sold the P - it isn't overdone but does exactly what I need it to do. People always bag on the older kits but if they've been selling a kit for 30 years and still are able to sell them, that's actually a win in my book.
Fri May 07, 2021 3:25 pm

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1997
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1997
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Fri May 07, 2021 3:25 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
this is exactly what I was thinking - it sounds like just what he's asking for.

scope the project to what your actual needs are and you will save tons of money and probably some grief. I went really deep down my rabbit hole with the Malossi 210 - I learned a lot and had some good times but TBH I'm much more of a mind to keep things simple on my next project. there's a reason I kept my smallie DR130 and sold the P - it isn't overdone but does exactly what I need it to do. People always bag on the older kits but if they've been selling a kit for 30 years and still are able to sell them, that's actually a win in my book.
I agree on scope, I'm working with a P225 Pinasco, I bought as a complete running motor. Every time some suggests I do "X" my first question is what does it do to my power band and peak power? My peak is 6500 rpm ish now. My cruising rpm is 6000 ish at 60 mph. Like anyone else I don't mind more power, I don't want it to come at the expense of sacrificing driveabilty for my wants or I won't use it.
Fri May 07, 2021 4:16 pm

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Fri May 07, 2021 4:16 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
this is exactly what I was thinking - it sounds like just what he's asking for.

scope the project to what your actual needs are and you will save tons of money and probably some grief. I went really deep down my rabbit hole with the Malossi 210 - I learned a lot and had some good times but TBH I'm much more of a mind to keep things simple on my next project. there's a reason I kept my smallie DR130 and sold the P - it isn't overdone but does exactly what I need it to do. People always bag on the older kits but if they've been selling a kit for 30 years and still are able to sell them, that's actually a win in my book.
I know you have a huge thread on what you did with your malossi, but it's a lot to go through.

Both kits are about the same price on sip if I decide to go with the malossi with the head.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/racing-cylinder-malossi-210-cc-sport-2016_31163460?q=malossi%20210%20sport

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/racing-cylinder-pinasco-215-cc_81111000?q=pinasco%20215

From what I understand the malossi is more reliable? I've read a few horror stories with the pinasco. If I kept tings simple with the malossi, wouldn't the cost difference be about the same as the pinasco? Wouldn't I still need most of the things I listed in my OP?
Fri May 07, 2021 4:29 pm

Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 58
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 58
Location: San Jose, CA
Fri May 07, 2021 4:29 pm linkquote
Phangtonpower wrote:
I know you have a huge thread on what you did with your malossi, but it's a lot to go through.

Both kits are about the same price on sip if I decide to go with the malossi with the head.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/racing-cylinder-malossi-210-cc-sport-2016_31163460?q=malossi%20210%20sport

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/racing-cylinder-pinasco-215-cc_81111000?q=pinasco%20215

From what I understand the malossi is more reliable? I've read a few horror stories with the pinasco. If I kept tings simple with the malossi, wouldn't the cost difference be about the same as the pinasco? Wouldn't I still need most of the things I listed in my OP?
Malossi hands down. Absolutely bullet proof and reliable set up correctly. Ive had malossi 210 kitted and tune P that was a daily driver, haul butt and reliable. Never broke or left me stranded. Early pinasco 213 was reliable but not as much power. New pinasco are hit or miss.
Fri May 07, 2021 5:08 pm

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Fri May 07, 2021 5:08 pm linkquote
almogavar69 wrote:
Malossi hands down. Absolutely bullet proof and reliable set up correctly. Ive had malossi 210 kitted and tune P that was a daily driver, haul butt and reliable. Never broke or left me stranded. Early pinasco 213 was reliable but not as much power. New pinasco are hit or miss.
That's what I keep reading. Can you share your setup?
Gonna go for ride right now!
Fri May 07, 2021 5:54 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5378
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5378
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri May 07, 2021 5:54 pm linkquote
I will say that despite my massive struggle to jet it in, I never blew it up 😄. I just find it odd that I couldn't get the stock carb to fuel right no matter what I did. That's trying on a 20.20, a 24.24 and a pwk. It's weird because I know that is not typical. I had the whole MV crew helping and that thing would not jet in despite good pressure test, etc. For me, next time I do a 200 it will likely be Polini. But we are here to help once you choose!
Fri May 07, 2021 7:46 pm

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Fri May 07, 2021 7:46 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
I will say that despite my massive struggle to jet it in, I never blew it up 😄. I just find it odd that I couldn't get the stock carb to fuel right no matter what I did. That's trying on a 20.20, a 24.24 and a pwk. It's weird because I know that is not typical. I had the whole MV crew helping and that thing would not jet in despite good pressure test, etc. For me, next time I do a 200 it will likely be Polini. But we are here to help once you choose!
I see where you're getting at. Looks like I need to through your thread. Time for some reading!

Also do me a favor yeah? Have a machaca burrito for me! I miss food from back home!
Fri May 07, 2021 10:27 pm

Hooked
Vespa PX200
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 447
Location: Belgrade
 
Hooked
Vespa PX200
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 447
Location: Belgrade
Fri May 07, 2021 10:27 pm linkquote
Hey now -- some points on what you're after:

1. Malossi 210 (incl. the head) / Polinibox / original Si24 carb is a tried and tested touring combo. It will run and run.

2. Bolting the Malossi on *will* work and achieve results but it seems a shame to throw away so much potential by not matching the ports. And also extending the inlet timing as per the Malossi instructions. For a newbie it's maybe a day or two of work.

3. Your stock clutch will eventually come apart during operation, if you do go beyond the 12 stock horses at the crank (and you will, you'll probably end up at about 18.) Cheapest and best way to resolve this is with one of these new banded clutch baskets, the SIP COSA 2 Sport. Don't go overboard with the spring hardness, medium is fine. Also get the reinforced retainer clip and (you'll thank me later) the CR80 clutch discs. They don't mushroom at the tabs like the standard ones.

4. Sip fast flow 2 is fine, better than some.of the other junk out there. Just remember that removing that bottleneck will introduce another at the carb -- even a mild tune past the stock 200 really does need a drilling out of the 1.5mm hole at the bottom of the float bowl to 2mm or even 2.5mm. You'll be ending up with a main jet of about 128 with this setup.

5. The polini venturi does have a noticeable effect, but it's deeply impractical. It's loud and it sucks in hot dirty air from right at the engine. Better to stick to original air filtration, just make sure you drill out the heart in the air filter if there aren't holes there already.

6. Somebody mentioned it above -- so long as you're upgrading things you might really want to consider some decent modern shocks. They really do transform the scooter. Night and day really.
Fri May 07, 2021 11:42 pm

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Fri May 07, 2021 11:42 pm linkquote
JimVanMorrissey wrote:
Hey now -- some points on what you're after:

1. Malossi 210 (incl. the head) / Polinibox / original Si24 carb is a tried and tested touring combo. It will run and run.

2. Bolting the Malossi on *will* work and achieve results but it seems a shame to throw away so much potential by not matching the ports. And also extending the inlet timing as per the Malossi instructions. For a newbie it's maybe a day or two of work.

3. Your stock clutch will eventually come apart during operation, if you do go beyond the 12 stock horses at the crank (and you will, you'll probably end up at about 18.) Cheapest and best way to resolve this is with one of these new banded clutch baskets, the SIP COSA 2 Sport. Don't go overboard with the spring hardness, medium is fine. Also get the reinforced retainer clip and (you'll thank me later) the CR80 clutch discs. They don't mushroom at the tabs like the standard ones.

4. Sip fast flow 2 is fine, better than some.of the other junk out there. Just remember that removing that bottleneck will introduce another at the carb -- even a mild tune past the stock 200 really does need a drilling out of the 1.5mm hole at the bottom of the float bowl to 2mm or even 2.5mm. You'll be ending up with a main jet of about 128 with this setup.

5. The polini venturi does have a noticeable effect, but it's deeply impractical. It's loud and it sucks in hot dirty air from right at the engine. Better to stick to original air filtration, just make sure you drill out the heart in the air filter if there aren't holes there already.

6. Somebody mentioned it above -- so long as you're upgrading things you might really want to consider some decent modern shocks. They really do transform the scooter. Night and day really.
Thanks for your incite! Sounds like what I have planned. I'll probably scrap the venturi and use that money for BGM clutch.

I was planning to do shocks as my first upgrade and I was willing to spend money on fournales, but it seems they aren't made anymore. I never bit the bullet because it seems my bike handles well for now, but it is definitely something I will be upgrading in the future! My bike came with tubeless rims, so why not upgrade suspension right?

If I do go this route I'm wondering if I should wait on the head from sip, which said it would arrive in February, or just go for the kit with the malossi head.
Fri May 07, 2021 11:57 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3056
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3056
Location: London UK
Fri May 07, 2021 11:57 pm linkquote
The BGM clutch is bigger and needs a modified clutch cover too. What JVM said is all good. To water it down to the bare minimum you can do right now is; fast flow tap, bolt on Sport kit with head, banded clutch with CR80 plates. This will have you breaking those Japanese speed limits before you can say ticket.
Sat May 08, 2021 12:11 am

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Sat May 08, 2021 12:11 am linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
The BGM clutch is bigger and needs a modified clutch cover too. What JVM said is all good. To water it down to the bare minimum you can do right now is; fast flow tap, bolt on Sport kit with head, banded clutch with CR80 plates. This will have you breaking those Japanese speed limits before you can say ticket.
Is there anything that you or anyone else can link me on sip for clutches?

Edit: Since my PX is a 2000s model it should already have a cosa clutch. I would need a basket, springs and plates correct?
Edit: nevermind Jim told me what to look for.
Sat May 08, 2021 4:25 am

Hooked
Vespa PX200
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 447
Location: Belgrade
 
Hooked
Vespa PX200
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 447
Location: Belgrade
Sat May 08, 2021 4:25 am linkquote
If you're looking to achieve with your suspension the same as what you're after with the rest of your bike, I wouldn't recommend the eye-wateringly pricey Fournales. Had a pair myself and after blowing two seals and breaking off the filler nozzle and having to plead with some surly Frenchmen for replacements each time, I said that was just about enough of that. Also, they are very hard riding.

Thing is, suspension is a minefield. Lots of folks swear by the newish adjustable BGMs they're pushing, but there are alarming reports of them snapping due to boneheaded engineering. Then there's the cheapo stuff by YSS etc but that is very clearly a case of you get what you pay for. The top of the line Oehlins are apparently worth every penny, but that would be overkill for a general touring setup. Me, I've settled on a pair of Bitubo sports but now I gotta find somebody hereabouts who can refill them with nitrogen every couple of years. I had a good experience with some SIP shocks a few years back, but note that those aren't at all serviceable and may well be destined for the trash heap after 15,000km or less.
Sat May 08, 2021 4:38 am

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1997
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1997
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sat May 08, 2021 4:38 am linkquote
JimVanMorrissey wrote:
If you're looking to achieve with your suspension the same as what you're after with the rest of your bike, I wouldn't recommend the eye-wateringly pricey Fournales. Had a pair myself and after blowing two seals and breaking off the filler nozzle and having to plead with some surly Frenchmen for replacements each time, I said that was just about enough of that. Also, they are very hard riding.

Thing is, suspension is a minefield. Lots of folks swear by the newish adjustable BGMs they're pushing, but there are alarming reports of them snapping due to boneheaded engineering. Then there's the cheapo stuff by YSS etc but that is very clearly a case of you get what you pay for. The top of the line Oehlins are apparently worth every penny, but that would be overkill for a general touring setup. Me, I've settled on a pair of Bitubo sports but now I gotta find somebody hereabouts who can refill them with nitrogen every couple of years. I had a good experience with some SIP shocks a few years back, but note that those aren't at all serviceable and may well be destined for the trash heap after 15,000km or less.
Any opinion on adding these parts?

https://www.claussstudios.com/store/c46/Vespa.html
Sat May 08, 2021 4:59 am

Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 4115
Location: Oceanside, CA
 
Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 4115
Location: Oceanside, CA
Sat May 08, 2021 4:59 am linkquote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
Any opinion on adding these parts?

https://www.claussstudios.com/store/c46/Vespa.html
I added those to a stock P200 with stock suspension and I'd never do that again! Everything was so tightened up that I felt every crack in the road and all the engine vibration in my hands. Sold the scoot before it shook itself apart.

For a racer that needs feedback/response then sure, add them. For everyday city driving id say keep the stock buffers with a set of middle of the road shocks that'll keep the bumps nice and manageable.
Sat May 08, 2021 7:03 am

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Sat May 08, 2021 7:03 am linkquote
JimVanMorrissey wrote:
If you're looking to achieve with your suspension the same as what you're after with the rest of your bike, I wouldn't recommend the eye-wateringly pricey Fournales. Had a pair myself and after blowing two seals and breaking off the filler nozzle and having to plead with some surly Frenchmen for replacements each time, I said that was just about enough of that. Also, they are very hard riding.

Thing is, suspension is a minefield. Lots of folks swear by the newish adjustable BGMs they're pushing, but there are alarming reports of them snapping due to boneheaded engineering. Then there's the cheapo stuff by YSS etc but that is very clearly a case of you get what you pay for. The top of the line Oehlins are apparently worth every penny, but that would be overkill for a general touring setup. Me, I've settled on a pair of Bitubo sports but now I gotta find somebody hereabouts who can refill them with nitrogen every couple of years. I had a good experience with some SIP shocks a few years back, but note that those aren't at all serviceable and may well be destined for the trash heap after 15,000km or less.
Yeah Oehlins are crazy money. I think with suspension I'm waiting to figure out what I want them to do, then I'll go down that rabbit hole. Plus there are so many options!
Sat May 08, 2021 7:05 am

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Sat May 08, 2021 7:05 am linkquote
MJRally wrote:
I added those to a stock P200 with stock suspension and I'd never do that again! Everything was so tightened up that I felt every crack in the road and all the engine vibration in my hands. Sold the scoot before it shook itself apart.

For a racer that needs feedback/response then sure, add them. For everyday city driving id say keep the stock buffers with a set of middle of the road shocks that'll keep the bumps nice and manageable.
I guess that's why I've been happy with the stock suspension, but they are aging, so we'll see.
Sat May 08, 2021 7:15 pm

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Sat May 08, 2021 7:15 pm linkquote
JimVanMorrissey wrote:
Don't go overboard with the spring hardness, medium is fine.
Looking on sip would the medium springs be the standard piaggio springs, or are the L strength sip springs? Also should I do all 16 springs, or do 8?
Sat May 08, 2021 10:57 pm

Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1788
Location: UK (South East)
 
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1788
Location: UK (South East)
Sat May 08, 2021 10:57 pm linkquote
I have been using a SIP Sport clutch with the 8x SIP springs, plus I added 4x standard Piaggio springs and CR80 plates. This is in an MHR 221 motor. Brilliant clutch. I only swapped it out this week for a BGM Superstrong/Ultralube because I want to use the Sport in a different motor
Sun May 09, 2021 5:06 am

Hooked
Vespa PX200
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 447
Location: Belgrade
 
Hooked
Vespa PX200
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 447
Location: Belgrade
Sun May 09, 2021 5:06 am linkquote
I'd recommend you buy yourself another 8 standard Cosa 2 springs, and try adding 4 (leaving 4 evenly spaced slots empty). If you detect any slippage with that, then add the remaining 4.

The trick is to add just enough force to make the clutch not slip. Adding too much results in increased wear on the clutch bearing, the pressure plate, the actuator lever, and your left wrist.
Tue May 11, 2021 10:38 pm

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Tue May 11, 2021 10:38 pm linkquote
swa45 wrote:
I have been using a SIP Sport clutch with the 8x SIP springs, plus I added 4x standard Piaggio springs and CR80 plates. This is in an MHR 221 motor. Brilliant clutch. I only swapped it out this week for a BGM Superstrong/Ultralube because I want to use the Sport in a different motor
JimVanMorrissey wrote:
I'd recommend you buy yourself another 8 standard Cosa 2 springs, and try adding 4 (leaving 4 evenly spaced slots empty). If you detect any slippage with that, then add the remaining 4.

The trick is to add just enough force to make the clutch not slip. Adding too much results in increased wear on the clutch bearing, the pressure plate, the actuator lever, and your left wrist.
Thanks you guys for recommendations. I ordered 16 standard springs and a pack of 8 SIP L springs just in case.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:56 pm

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:56 pm linkquote
So I have gone ahead with this build including bitubos, which have been a pain!! The M9 bolt sip recommended is too short. Tired of dealing with them, so I ordered a longer bolt from Vespa Motorsport. I hope it's the right one...it cost 30 bucks!!!

Anyway I have a question. Rebuilding my carb. I was going to replace the gasket for the oil pump cover just because I have a new set, but the cover doesn't want to come off. It is only the three screws right? Is there a trick to getting it off? It felt like I was going to bend the metal feeder tube, so I stopped. Should I even replace the gasket?
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:10 pm

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:10 pm linkquote
So the build went well. Have it up and running. Time to tune the carb.

The carb is stock except for the main, so 160/BE3/128. I also have the carb main to float chamber drilled out to 2.5mm. The idle jet is stock 55/160 I believe. I also have a 52/140 recommended by mistafreak moped, but haven't tried it yet as my idle sounds fine.

My mechanic had it running a .128 main jet during the break in. First thing I noticed was that it was four stroking, or so I think it was. Especially in first and second gear.

I wanted to try the supplied .127 main the was supposed to be included in the malossi kit, but when looking at the two I received, one is a .130 and the other is a .120! I have a BGM main jet kit, but the next step down from a .128 is a .125. Tried looking for a .127 and.126 locally in Japan, but with no luck.

I was a little nervous sticking a .125 thinking that it would be a big drop and it would be to lean, but looking at the plug, it still looks like it's a little rich. Average speed of 60km/37mph had my CHT at about 250°F -260°F and rose up to 290°F going up inclines for short periods.

Temps seem normal? I'm using a BR8ES recommended by Malossi. I know most of the world uses B7ES for stock bikes, but people here use B6ES maybe because of the slow speed limits, so I'm wondering if I should drop down to a BR7ES.

I'm still getting a little four stroking/flat spot around 4000rpm. I feel the .125MJ is still running a little rich since my plug is black. I have no idea where to start when rejetting. I don't know if a .125 is to small of a main jet and I would like to fix that flatspot.



Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:20 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3219

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3219

Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:20 pm linkquote
Phangtonpower wrote:
So the build went well. Have it up and running. Time to tune the carb.

The carb is stock except for the main, so 160/BE3/128. I also have the carb main to float chamber drilled out to 2.5mm. The idle jet is stock 55/160 I believe. I also have a 52/140 recommended by mistafreak moped, but haven't tried it yet as my idle sounds fine.

My mechanic had it running a .128 main jet during the break in. First thing I noticed was that it was four stroking, or so I think it was. Especially in first and second gear.

I wanted to try the supplied .127 main the was supposed to be included in the malossi kit, but when looking at the two I received, one is a .130 and the other is a .120! I have a BGM main jet kit, but the next step down from a .128 is a .125. Tried looking for a .127 and.126 locally in Japan, but with no luck.

I was a little nervous sticking a .125 thinking that it would be a big drop and it would be to lean, but looking at the plug, it still looks like it's a little rich. Average speed of 60km/37mph had my CHT at about 250°F -260°F and rose up to 290°F going up inclines for short periods.

Temps seem normal? I'm using a BR8ES recommended by Malossi. I know most of the world uses B7ES for stock bikes, but people here use B6ES maybe because of the slow speed limits, so I'm wondering if I should drop down to a BR7ES.

I'm still getting a little four stroking/flat spot around 4000rpm. I feel the .125MJ is still running a little rich since my plug is black. I have no idea where to start when rejetting. I don't know if a .125 is to small of a main jet and I would like to fix that flatspot.
interesting...i have that exact same jetting (and plug) on my stock PX200 (with a Sito+).
Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:25 pm

Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
 
Hooked
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 191
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:25 pm linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
interesting...i have that exact same jetting (and plug) on my stock PX200 (with a Sito+).
yeah I had a sito on it before and I was running a .122 and I thought it was a little lean. My plugs were never as dark as it is now. I know drilling out the carb drops your main jet, but it doesn't seem to line up with what others have been using with there malossis.
Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:07 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3219

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3219

Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:07 pm linkquote
And just to be clear, i currently have a 128 main in my 200. I do have the heart drilled into the air filter, flowed the carb and carb box to the case, and matched the cylinder transfers to the case as well, but the engine is still bone stock.

Doesn't the Malossi 210 kit come with a 130 and or a 135 main jet included?
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