Sun May 09, 2021 7:52 pm

Member
P200E (VSX1T)
Joined: 09 May 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
 
Member
P200E (VSX1T)
Joined: 09 May 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
Sun May 09, 2021 7:52 pm linkquote
I have a VSX1T that a bought off a friend. He had it running briefly after he bought it, and then after taking it home from the shop, it died on him and he couldn't be bothered to spend more trying to fix it.

When I got it the first thing I found was that the wires were completely toast. Everything falling apart and corroding. Bellow will be a list of everything I have done.

-Completely new wiring harness
-upgrade to Malossi VESPOWER Ignition Kit P/PX
and Malossi VESPOWER Voltage Regulator KIt
-PX-Stella T5 24/24G Performance Carb Kit that came with a 120 BE4 110 Jet and a 50-100 slow running jet
-Air Filter Cover PX-T5 Style - Aftermarket (417820 239030) and SIP air filter
-P200E-PX200 Malossi Performance Exhaust

It is now running, which is a definite plus over before, but it will only keep an idle if both screws are adjusted all the way in, it sounds really rough, and there is a lot of white smoke that comes out. When I pull the spark plug it looks very dark on the end, and is wet. I think with oil because it feels a little sticky, but it could be a mix of gas and soot from it being too rich.
I already checked the gearbox oil. It was a little high, so I drained it down to the right level and some very small (grain of sand sized) metal flakes came out, and it was a little dirty, but everything appeared mostly normal.
I have a cheap universal compression tester that I got off amazon, and when tightened as well as a i can by hand get 110psi.
If people need a video I can record it and figure out how to imbed a link off of youtube or something because it appears I can't upload videos here as attachments.
I am new here, so I am probably wrong about something, but I really tried to look through other people's issues with p200's and couldn't find a solution that fit this problem. Any help much appreciated!
Mon May 10, 2021 2:59 am

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1781
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1781
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon May 10, 2021 2:59 am linkquote
Re: Help: Rough Idle and Lots of White Smoke P200e
oren wrote:
I have a VSX1T that a bought off a friend. He had it running briefly after he bought it, and then after taking it home from the shop, it died on him and he couldn't be bothered to spend more trying to fix it.

When I got it the first thing I found was that the wires were completely toast. Everything falling apart and corroding. Bellow will be a list of everything I have done.

-Completely new wiring harness
-upgrade to Malossi VESPOWER Ignition Kit P/PX
and Malossi VESPOWER Voltage Regulator KIt
-PX-Stella T5 24/24G Performance Carb Kit that came with a 120 BE4 110 Jet and a 50-100 slow running jet
-Air Filter Cover PX-T5 Style - Aftermarket (417820 239030) and SIP air filter
-P200E-PX200 Malossi Performance Exhaust

It is now running, which is a definite plus over before, but it will only keep an idle if both screws are adjusted all the way in, it sounds really rough, and there is a lot of white smoke that comes out. When I pull the spark plug it looks very dark on the end, and is wet. I think with oil because it feels a little sticky, but it could be a mix of gas and soot from it being too rich.
I already checked the gearbox oil. It was a little high, so I drained it down to the right level and some very small (grain of sand sized) metal flakes came out, and it was a little dirty, but everything appeared mostly normal.
I have a cheap universal compression tester that I got off amazon, and when tightened as well as a i can by hand get 110psi.
If people need a video I can record it and figure out how to imbed a link off of youtube or something because it appears I can't upload videos here as attachments.
I am new here, so I am probably wrong about something, but I really tried to look through other people's issues with p200's and couldn't find a solution that fit this problem. Any help much appreciated!
You have to upload videos to a service such as YouTube, then post a link to it here. You are correct that you can't upload videos to this site.

Have you performed a leak test to make sure the motor is sealed up and doesn't have an air leak?

How did you set the timing? With everything you have changed you may want to get a two stroke timing light and a piston stop to find top dead center and verify timing also.

Also what are you using for two stroke oil, is it a pre mix with the gasoline or does the factory oil injection system work?

Does the over filled oil in the gear box smell like gasoline?
Mon May 10, 2021 3:03 am

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2374
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2374
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon May 10, 2021 3:03 am linkquote
From what you're describing, clutch seal is probably toast...
Mon May 10, 2021 4:22 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 9180
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 9180
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Mon May 10, 2021 4:22 am linkquote
i'll take clutch side seal for 500, Alex
Mon May 10, 2021 4:55 am

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2358
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2358
Location: california
Mon May 10, 2021 4:55 am linkquote
Oren - best to perform a leak test - different than a compression test.
This is where you pressurize the motor with about 5lbs of air pressure.
You can likely convert the compression test kit you have to also allow you to make a leak test kit.
You will need a piece of rubber to close off the carb inlet (pull carb and box, put rubber down over inlet on cases - put carb box back on and use sleeves on carb studs to snug down carb box and pinch rubber sheet to seal off).

Pull exhaust pipe and shove a rubber stopper in there.
Buy cheap drug store blood pressures leave and use the bulb and gauge attached to the part of your compression tester to screw in to spark plug.

Pump up to 5lbs and see if it holds.
When it doesn't - squirt soapy water on different parts and find the bubbles.
If it's clutch side seal - your clutch cover bolts will likely bubble for you.

Other ways to do it also - just search there forum.
Mon May 10, 2021 7:25 am

Member
P200E (VSX1T)
Joined: 09 May 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
 
Member
P200E (VSX1T)
Joined: 09 May 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
Mon May 10, 2021 7:25 am linkquote
I am using a 50:1 ratio I mix myself in a 20L Jerry Can of 91 octane gas and "800 Factory Line Off Road Ester Core 2t 100% synthetic racing motor oil" by Motul.
The Malosi conversion makes the timing electronic, so I can't set it with a timing light. The only control I have over it is putting it forward or back by 1 degree off of what it sets it at.
I will do a pressure test next and get back to you all with results.
Thanks for all the feedback! I probably won't have time to do it until Friday or Saturday, so bear with me, but there is a chance I will be able to do it today.
Mon May 10, 2021 5:47 pm

Hooked
1959 Allstate w P125x Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 193
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
1959 Allstate w P125x Engine
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 193
Location: Los Angeles
Mon May 10, 2021 5:47 pm linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
Oren - best to perform a leak test - different than a compression test.
This is where you pressurize the motor with about 5lbs of air pressure.
You can likely convert the compression test kit you have to also allow you to make a leak test kit.
You will need a piece of rubber to close off the carb inlet (pull carb and box, put rubber down over inlet on cases - put carb box back on and use sleeves on carb studs to snug down carb box and pinch rubber sheet to seal off).

Pull exhaust pipe and shove a rubber stopper in there.
Buy cheap drug store blood pressures leave and use the bulb and gauge attached to the part of your compression tester to screw in to spark plug.

Pump up to 5lbs and see if it holds.
When it doesn't - squirt soapy water on different parts and find the bubbles.
If it's clutch side seal - your clutch cover bolts will likely bubble for you.

Other ways to do it also - just search there forum.
Ok bear with me guys..
I know there are a lot of ways to pressure test motors.
This is what I did on the super-cheap:
Pulled the carb and carb box. Checked gaskets for signs of leaks.
Rotated the flywheel so the intake was open.
Took off the clutch breather from the flywheel side. Without the carb box there it's easily accessible. Cut a 2' length of 1/4" flexible tubing. Pressed it tight against the breather hole by hand (yes, that's a 5lb psi seal). Blew into it Dizzy Galespie style. No clutch side oil seal leak
Mon May 10, 2021 7:37 pm

Member
P200E (VSX1T)
Joined: 09 May 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
 
Member
P200E (VSX1T)
Joined: 09 May 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
Mon May 10, 2021 7:37 pm linkquote
Ray8 wrote:
Ok bear with me guys..
I know there are a lot of ways to pressure test motors.
This is what I did on the super-cheap:
Pulled the carb and carb box. Checked gaskets for signs of leaks.
Rotated the flywheel so the intake was open.
Took off the clutch breather from the flywheel side. Without the carb box there it's easily accessible. Cut a 2' length of 1/4" flexible tubing. Pressed it tight against the breather hole by hand (yes, that's a 5lb psi seal). Blew into it Dizzy Galespie style. No clutch side oil seal leak
I think I will just use an old bicycle inner tube cut to size to block the airbox to crankcase, another piece of it cut down and affixed with a hose clamp on the exhaust side, and use my compression test kit, a bicycle pump, and possibly some other scraps lying around to test it.

I didn't notice if the gear oil smelled like gas, and just drained it into a container with old motor oil from my car, so can't really check now. All I noticed is it was a bit lighter, and more grey than the brown of the used motor oil.
Mon May 10, 2021 7:49 pm

Ossessionato
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4788
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Ossessionato
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4788
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon May 10, 2021 7:49 pm linkquote
I've used a plate with inner tube over the intake and inner tube and a hose clamp at the exhaust. The exhaust is a bit tough to seal this way though, it always seems like you end up with a wrinkle in the tube that leaks.
Mon May 10, 2021 8:13 pm

Member
P200E (VSX1T)
Joined: 09 May 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
 
Member
P200E (VSX1T)
Joined: 09 May 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
Mon May 10, 2021 8:13 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
I've used a plate with inner tube over the intake and inner tube and a hose clamp at the exhaust. The exhaust is a bit tough to seal this way though, it always seems like you end up with a wrinkle in the tube that leaks.
Good to know. I will go ahead and order a tapered rubber plug for the exhaust and just use the inner tube and hose clamp to help keep it in.
Tue May 11, 2021 2:57 am

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1781
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1781
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue May 11, 2021 2:57 am linkquote
I use one of these, can't remember the diameter, you can get one from a home improvement store, hardware store etc.


https://www.amazon.com/EVERCONNECT-4824-Flexible-Coupling-Stainless/dp/B00HZSD7JQ
Tue May 11, 2021 7:32 am

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6012
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6012
Location: So Cal
Tue May 11, 2021 7:32 am linkquote
I test for leaks basically like this, using a sphygmomanometer. On a smallie clamp one end of the inner tube on the exhaust and other on the intake manifold. On a large frame, clamp one end of the inner tube to the exhaust and clamp the other to a capped PVC fitting. Block off the intake with some neoprene under the carb box.

Mon May 17, 2021 8:02 pm

Member
P200E (VSX1T)
Joined: 09 May 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
 
Member
P200E (VSX1T)
Joined: 09 May 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
Mon May 17, 2021 8:02 pm linkquote
I did my best to perform a leak test. With the combination of a rubber plug, a hose clamp, and part of a bicycle inner-tube I closed off the exhaust end, and with some Teflon tape, a couple pipe fittings from the local hardware store, another hose clamp, a threaded connector from a compression tester, and a bike pump with the hose being clamped directly to that setup I was able to put pressure in where the spark plug would normally go. On the connection between the air box and carb I tried a series of different custom gaskets/dams, but none of them seemed great. Did a neoprene one and the clamping force and gas turned it into a lot of broken pieces, tried one out of natural rubber, and it met the same fate. I tried one made out of just a bicycle inner tube, and that deformed and also the clamping forces broke it around one eyelet. Tried a gasket material (kinda like cardboard) and it just didn't seal enough; finally I did inner tube with gasket material on top as a two layer sandwich, and that might have worked, might not of. Air was leaking out of somewhere near the carb, but soapy water didn't really tell me where. Could have been the clutch, or the air box.
After all of this I figured it was just time to start taking things apart, so I have dropped the entire engine assembly from the scooter (if you can call what is essentially the whole rear, wheel and all by that phrase), and probably next weekend I will clean the outside and start splitting the engine and taking it all apart. Will order all the gaskets first.
I will post to here with more details as they evolve.
Mon May 17, 2021 8:28 pm

Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 1058
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
 
Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 1058
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Mon May 17, 2021 8:28 pm linkquote
Most compression test are done with the flywheel and clutch off so you can spray the seals with soapy water. If the flywheel side seal is leaking it's a motor in change. The clutch side requires a split but there's prob gas in the oil too that will indicate that problem.

Good luck!
Sat May 22, 2021 9:02 pm

Member
P200E (VSX1T)
Joined: 09 May 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
 
Member
P200E (VSX1T)
Joined: 09 May 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
Sat May 22, 2021 9:02 pm linkquote
Well I have pulled all the main seals. No confirmation either way if any of them were shot, but of course after ordering a normal bearing replacement set, I found little chunks of brass floating around in bad places coming from a transmission bear which is possibly the only bearing from this end of the bike that I didn't order. Glad I am replacing it bow though before the bits of metal got in everywhere else and did real damage. Also will do a seriously deep clean on everything before putting it back together again.



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