Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:04 pm

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2511

 
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2511

Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:04 pm linkquote
Iím caught up and feeling really really u def average now, way too cool.
Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:15 am

Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
 
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:15 am linkquote
The shiny new cases are lovely, but the sharp milled flanges show no particular signs of having been deburred. With no gasket, I want to faces to be as flush as possible, so to mitigate the risk of of any burs causing interference I 45 degreed all the edges both inside and out with a file.



The filed finish (outside edge) isn't as pretty as the raw (inside), but "function over form", and you can see how much tiny swarf came off.



Next the bearings went in the freezer, and the case halves spent 30 minutes in th EZ-Bake at 135 Celcius.



The clutch side (as always it seems!) needed some assisting with a bearing drived, but the cases are nicely reinforced, so it was soon in snugly and given a wd40 bath to drive off any residual moisture,



then circliped in securely, with the clip in then turned 90 degrees to make sure its seating.



The chilled flyside bearing dropped in nicely with a light tap, and also got a post-op salve of WD-40.



At that point I called it a day - gotta spread the work out over lockdown!

Last edited by Gt6MK3 on Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:40 am; edited 1 time in total
Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:38 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:38 am linkquote
Solid progress. Couple of points. Be sure to stick the oil seal in with Loctite 603. Last thing you want is the seal to spin.
Flyside bearing I though was usually a T5 one?
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/bearing-crankshaft-flywheel-side-skf-25x52x15-mm_90050000?q=bearing%20fly
Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:01 am

Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
 
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:01 am linkquote
Bottle of 603 is already sitting on my desk beside the seals. (Ya can fool me once!).

Crank bearings are supplied with the cases.

Flyside is a SKF 6205 tn9/c4hn3, so it's a C4 ball bearing version of the T5 25x52x15mm size.

Clutchside is a SKF BB1-0855 25x62x12mm.

I took photos for future reference before they went in.


Flyside


Clutchside

Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:32 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8080
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8080
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:32 pm linkquote
Looking great.
Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:39 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2315
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2315
Location: california
Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:39 pm linkquote
Ginch - I would say the gauntlet has been thrown.
Just an observation.
Smooth as butter.

Just how much Horsepower are we reckoning will be produced?
I don't remember the maxs' but I do recall a curve that seemed to start at about 12...
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:09 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8080
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8080
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:09 pm linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
Ginch - I would say the gauntlet has been thrown.
All in good time... I'll wait until Craig works out all the kinks and follow his lead (which will give me time to finish the renovations).
Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:24 am

Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
 
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:24 am linkquote
Ginch wrote:
I'll wait until Craig works out all the kinks
Again? Jeez.

Today's effort. To cold in the arctic office to do more.


Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:58 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:58 am linkquote
Hoping that is a Malossi seal that came with the kit.

That flyside bearing; is it a tight fit in the casing and loose on the crank? Probably better than the roller, I would imagine.

With the 64mm crank the M244 port timing will be way higher. Still interested to know how high. Can predict how it will go then.
Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:03 am

Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
 
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:03 am linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
Hoping that is a Malossi seal that came with the kit.

That flyside bearing; is it a tight fit in the casing and loose on the crank? Probably better than the roller, I would imagine.

With the 64mm crank the M244 port timing will be way higher. Still interested to know how high. Can predict how it will go then.
1. Yep, part of the kit.
2. Tight in the case? Yep. Haven't had the crank in yet.

They're replacing the roof at work, and it's cold as a witches tit in there. When they finally finish I'll sit down at the desk do a port map, and measure where the piston finishes up.
Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:44 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2813
Location: London UK
Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:44 am linkquote
Measure the precise stroke too. 64mm is just nominal size.

Loose in the case would be the least good. Tight in both case and crank would make splitting not easy. And the roller 2 piece would win.

UK unusually not cold. Dusted off the BBQ today.....ready for it to start raining.
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:18 am

Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
 
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:18 am linkquote
Wanted to get on with assembly this afternoon at work, but lockdown has not been kind to my desk.



So I got it back to the point where I could mostly see it.



Then I assembled my fancy new Italian primary drive. 2 different sets of spring, that have to be correctly ordered around the disk.



Loctited in the screws, which is much more civilized than the usual rivets.



Looks pretty just lurking there waiting, doesn't it.



It's made by Crimaz, which I swear translates as "Beautifully made, quality Italian parts which almost fit, every time".

I was planning to use my fancy crankshaft assembly tool to pull the crank in, but the threads are too fine for any of the adapters I have, (off to the lathe soon!), so I resorted to a blast on the bearing from the hot gun, and a squirt or two of freeze spray on the spindle. With the frost wiped off the spindle and replaced with a smear of oil, they slid together and married up with a satisfying clunk.

Inside



Outside



Time to install the primary.



Which almost fitted. But not quite.

The spindle is in the slot cutout for fitting



And is almost all the way in



But while the inner 3rd gear teeth slide under their relief in the case, the outers just foul it.



and no amount of jiggling is getting it past.

So I'm going to have to relieve the casing slightly where it hits (Top), and check the width of the spindle slot (Bottom).



3 different manufacturers involved, so no huge surprise, but annoying nonetheless.

(Note. Itís entirely possible that all the parts are perfect, and all fault lies with the wetware. Iím entirely (and provenly!) fallible, and would actually prefer being told/shown how to do it right than have to pull out the Dremel.)
Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:31 am

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2511

 
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2511

Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:31 am linkquote
Looking fantastic, those gears are so sexy.
Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:30 am

Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
 
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:30 am linkquote
More progress today. Massive wrapping and taping of anything with a bearing, followed by some dremel work to relieve the case. Then lots of washing out of swarf, unwrapping, drying, and more cleaning.

Success



Primary now fits



Nifty new tool from CMD to fit the loose needle bearings without them spraying everywhere



Works a treat



And despite the wafer thin tolerances on the back side



It spins nicely



So in with the oil flinger. The beefier cases means this needs to be trimmed to fit.



In with the driveshaft bearing. I removed the inner bearing seal, but figure the outer can't hurt.



Time to pull in the driveshaft



And this half is ready.



On to the flyside

Heat, freeze spray, and a gentle tap, and the flyside driveshaft bearing is in



O ring in for the kickstart



Kick start quadrant and buffers in. The buffers fought hard, but they finally went in. Saw a trick on the net a while back, and left the lower buffer 1/2 out till the kick start spring was in, lets the quadrant move further to ease getting the spring in.



Kickstart gear spring in place ready for the cases to marry up.



That was time to call it a day. Next step is a full inspection to see if I've forgotten anything before the cases get closed.
Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:47 am

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2315
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2315
Location: california
Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:47 am linkquote
Gracious, that looks pretty.
Clearance on primary was a struggle for my build when I put the EFL gear box in.
Little late for it now... but think I had to not set the shaft into the needle bearings fully - until it was over the hole's center. Then tapped it to seat it the rest of the way into the needle bearings and through the hole.

Like the cellophane wrap on crank.
Will keep that and the kick start quadrant pad trick for my assembly.
And of course - ketchup bottle on the desk near the donut box was a nice touch.
Looking exceptional.
Do you have an approximate HP curve example for what you expect with your target carb/squish and timings?
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:42 am

Hooked
1x PX260, 1x GS232
Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 101
Location: Brisbane, QLD
 
Hooked
1x PX260, 1x GS232
Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 101
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:42 am linkquote
I'm glad you got the primary sorted, I used the same one on my BFA and it wouldn't fit either.. after fighting it and making it work, it didn't clear the clutch side case also on another note, I ended up using an oversized O ring on the kick start shaft as scootjim found out, the standard one weaped oil a tad.
Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:34 am

Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4045
Location: That bushfire place
 
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4045
Location: That bushfire place
Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:34 am linkquote
I was too damn slow& you ended up getting the fuel pump I wanted (then forgot)!
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:47 am

Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
 
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:47 am linkquote
Stuarttiainen wrote:
I'm glad you got the primary sorted, I used the same one on my BFA and it wouldn't fit either.. after fighting it and making it work, it didn't clear the clutch side case also on another note, I ended up using an oversized O ring on the kick start shaft as scootjim found out, the standard one weaped oil a tad.
Thanks Stuart. That confirmed two things I was thinking.

Firstly, when I put the kickstart shaft in, I had a queasy feeling that it went in a little too easy. I really don't want it to weep on me.

Secondly, the clearance on the primary is too damn tight, and I can't risk it hitting the case when its running.

So out came all the gearbox, and I could see witness marks on the two risers that are left in the case after the clutch opening is machined.



That clinched it. They need to be sanded down. Which is a bear, because all those carefully installed bearings and seals don't exactly love having case filings in them.

So, lots of individual layers of cloth, then tape, then cloth, then tape, etc etc, as well as strategic tape and glue.



The position of them made it hard to get a tool in, but by being really cautious with the power file, I was able to lower them to a better level.



Not the prettiest work, but given their position I was just happy not to damage anything else. Unwrapping was a 5 layer process, dusting off any swarf as I went, and the last 2 layers were nice and clean.

Primary now has plenty of room.



Build is now on hold till the worlds most expensive oversize o-ring arrives via ups from Germany.
SubEtherBASS wrote:
I was too damn slow& you ended up getting the fuel pump I wanted (then forgot)!
Sorry Bud, I had a side convo going with Stuart where I told him I'd take it not long before you asked him to hold it for you.
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:35 am

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2315
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2315
Location: california
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:35 am linkquote
Funny - that caught my eye also.
I had the same issue with my install.
In my case, I used a precision shim to offset the primary 1mm.
With that said - over time - the primary wore down that shim sufficiently to ever so lightly foul the cases.
Turns out the primary rivets (screws on yours) make a remarkable fly cutter for fine removal of any troubling areas of interference.
🙂

Tape up job was first class. Assume you have a little shop vac in the office as well.
Also: nice note on the O ring from Stuart. As we know - they can bring down a whole space shuttle - if not leave a spot on the floor that can expose your inner most self doubts, every time you park, and who wants that?!
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:05 am

Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2165
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2165
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:05 am linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
As we know - they can bring down a whole space shuttle...
Speaking of that - I've had a bundle of Space Shuttle stickers that I've been turning into magnets. This is the patch of that tragic flight...





Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:39 pm

Addicted
PX 150
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 541
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
 
Addicted
PX 150
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 541
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:39 pm linkquote
The kick start oring was like a thorn in my side. Otherwise the perfect factory build. I mocked up an external oring which has stopped the leaky shaft. True macguyver stuff.
The build is looking spectacular Craig, great work😊
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:50 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3177
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3177
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:50 pm linkquote
Gt6MK3 wrote:
Saw a trick on the net a while back, and left the lower buffer 1/2 out till the kick start spring was in, lets the quadrant move further to ease getting the spring in.
Just used this tip today! So much easier. BTW, your build looks like its going to be an insane ride. Can't wait to see/hear a video of it running. Impressive work!
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:54 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8080
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8080
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:54 pm linkquote
Looking absolutely fantastic.
Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:00 pm

Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
 
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:00 pm linkquote
My o-ring arrived from Sip.



Apparently the first step is to admit you have a problem...
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:04 pm

Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 658
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
 
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 658
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:04 pm linkquote
Gt6MK3 wrote:
My o-ring arrived from Sip.



Apparently the first step is to admit you have a problem...
Thankfully the highly valuable and rare o-ring is well packed.
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:06 pm

Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 658
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
 
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 658
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:06 pm linkquote
Now.... The real question is.... how many scooters do you need to sell to pay that Ransom
Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:40 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3319
Location: Nashville
Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:40 am linkquote
GeekLion wrote:
Now.... The real question is.... how many scooters do you need to sell to pay that Ransom
The real question is, "How many ransoms does he need to collect to pay for that shipping from Germany to Australia?"

I like KnowBe4, but most org's buy it for compliance purposes, not because it improves security that dramatically. It's also a total point solution; o real Force Multiplier effects for mitigating other attack vectors. Ransomware mitigation is mostly about limiting blast radius these days, which leads to discussions about what it would take to build a real Zero Trust Architecture, at which time most org's just start trying to price out some upgraded Cyber Insurance and getting used to disappointment.
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