Sun May 30, 2021 5:26 pm

Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
 
Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
Sun May 30, 2021 5:26 pm linkquote
I've had my '06 GTS for 2-3 years and 7000 miles, mostly trouble-free.
Occasionally during that time, when warm, I'd come to a stop and the scoot would die. Always restarted if a bit reluctantly with a bit of gas.

Seemed to get worse over time so thinking that some vespas of similar era had fuel pump issues (although my VIN was not on the recall list), I replaced the fuel pump assembly with the entire OEM package at some expense. Fun job by the way. Now it simply won't idle post return-to-service. A bit of gas and it'll run fine, but cut the throttle and it will die every time (and restart if you give it some gas along with the starter).

Hoses are all original as far as I know so there could be an air leak or some such.

I did replace the spark plug with the 2-electrode unit, no improvement.
Battery was replaced in 2018 and seems to hold a charge but I've never tested the electrical system, nor done anything with the original fuel injection bits.

Where might one look? I'm pondering taking it to a pro but if there's something w/in my skillset I might attempt more poking at this.

Also, the engine compartment and all parts within are just filthy - figure it's probably bad form to shoot a can of engine cleaner at the works then hose it down. Thoughts on cleaning 15 years of grime that won't trash the electrics?

Thanks all! I have an emergency spare wasp and it's running great, but I do love my first Vespa and want to get it back in form.
Sun May 30, 2021 6:11 pm

Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GTS250ie, 1992 BMW K75
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2038
Location: Central Pennsylvania
 
Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GTS250ie, 1992 BMW K75
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2038
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Sun May 30, 2021 6:11 pm linkquote
I have a 2006 GTS250ie. I had similar problems with idle troubles, would die, after it cooled a bit would restart. Then when it heated up it would die again.

The frequency would increase until eventually it would not start at all. It was the fuel pump. It was filthy as was my engine compartment. I rode through the winter and off road so there was a lot of dirt, salt, and grime.

Here's a picture of the pump and also a link below to the blog post about those woes.

VESPA GTS 25Oie FUEL PUMP


My filthy fuel pump.

Sun May 30, 2021 6:12 pm

Addicted
2009 LX 150, 2008 GTS 250
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 796
Location: Birmingham, Alabama, USA
 
Addicted
2009 LX 150, 2008 GTS 250
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 796
Location: Birmingham, Alabama, USA
Sun May 30, 2021 6:12 pm linkquote
There is a small idle air passage in the throttle body visible when the air box pipe is removed. This passage could be partially plugged. It would be worth inspecting and spraying some short bursts of carb cleaner through a straw into the passage to assure itís clear.

I would hesitate to spray the engine with engine cleaner and a water hose. Some careful wiping with a damp sponge, rags, and tooth or paint brushes will detail the engine reasonably well.

Bill
Sun May 30, 2021 6:46 pm

Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
 
Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
Sun May 30, 2021 6:46 pm linkquote
I think by replacing the fuel pump assembly (pump, filter etc.) we've eliminated the pump as a source of this issue. Could be the actual fuel injector though - no replacement of that unit.

For background initially I actutally replaced just the pump at like $20 since I'm cheap - thence no idle happiness - then bit the bullet and replace the entire pump assembly w. OEM assembly (pump/filter/etc.) - still no idle happiness, so not likely it's the pump or filter. And I had the bonus of dropping the tank 2x lame job for those who have yet to do that

I could have disturbed something in dropping the engine (hoses etc.) but I'll check that idle air intake.

THANK YOU for the suggestions
Sun May 30, 2021 6:57 pm

Addicted
2009 LX 150, 2008 GTS 250
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 796
Location: Birmingham, Alabama, USA
 
Addicted
2009 LX 150, 2008 GTS 250
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 796
Location: Birmingham, Alabama, USA
Sun May 30, 2021 6:57 pm linkquote
Also, itís worth cleaning and lightly re-oiling the air filter if this hasnít been done yet. I usually wash mine in a bit of kerosene.

Bill
Sun May 30, 2021 7:31 pm

Addicted
S150, Beo 500ie
Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 586
Location: Bermuda
 
Addicted
S150, Beo 500ie
Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 586
Location: Bermuda
Sun May 30, 2021 7:31 pm linkquote
This was my exact symptom with my Scarabeo 500ie (MASTER engine): failure to idle, required a bit of extra throttle, would restart immediately when attempted, gradually got worse. I thought it was:
* bad spark plug (replaced with Iridium)
* the idle circuit in the throttle body (clean with MAF sensor cleaner, which is somewhat gentler than carb cleaner - some gunk came out, no particular change to idle behavior)
* bad fuel injector (these are easy to replace and inexpensive if you find the generic part)
* faulty intake air temperature sensor (also easy and cheap to replace with the generic part)
* failing O2 sensor (turns out, my engine doesn't have one)

What it turned out to be:
* old spark plug wire and janky connection between the plug wire and the CDI/condenser. Not the plug itself - the OTHER end of the wire!
Sun May 30, 2021 7:50 pm

Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
 
Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
Sun May 30, 2021 7:50 pm linkquote
Hmmm. So just tried shooting some carb cleaner into the intake (and on a toothbrush to scrub around in there) - 2x for good measure - reassembled - no change.

Just replaced the air filter with the Piaggio oiled ready to go version should be no issues there.

Just ordered the new spark plug wire from Scooterwest, curious to see if that's helpful

Thanks all will report as things develop
Sun May 30, 2021 8:25 pm

Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
 
Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
Sun May 30, 2021 8:25 pm linkquote
FWIW the wrench option for me:

2 hours trailering scoot to Portland, 2 hours return
Then: wrench fix / cost. Then:
2 hours to Portland, retreive scoot, pay, 2 hours return

So given 8 hours of travel time for this + wrench cost: willing to spend some time on part replacement / collective debugging

We used to have a local Vespa dealer in Eugene (my town) but they went out of biz a handful of years ago, sadly.

Cheerio!
Mon May 31, 2021 1:50 am

Addicted
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 889
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
 
Addicted
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 889
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
Mon May 31, 2021 1:50 am linkquote
Re: Q: '06 250ie won't idle - thoughts?
voodooskin wrote:
Battery was replaced in 2018 and seems to hold a charge but I've never tested the electrical system, nor done anything with the original fuel injection bits.

It might be worth removing and checking your fuel injector. Also, you changed the spark plug, but what about also checking the coil?, this can be a reason for stalling and non-starting.
Mon May 31, 2021 2:48 am

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4425
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4425
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Mon May 31, 2021 2:48 am linkquote
Have you checked the valves and for any vacuum leaks (hoses, boots)?
Mon May 31, 2021 5:15 am

Addicted
GTS 250ie Super, Italjet Velocifero, Scarabeo 150, S50, ET4, ET2
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 676
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
 
Addicted
GTS 250ie Super, Italjet Velocifero, Scarabeo 150, S50, ET4, ET2
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 676
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Mon May 31, 2021 5:15 am linkquote
I would go with Cosmos suggestion. I had this problem and pulled the throttle body so I could get to both sides and it was dirty and had some globs of grease, probably previous owner or shop greasing the air box hose to get it on onto the carb, I found grease around the hose that got cleaned out. I shot the cleaner into the passage and saw it come out the other side and cleaned it up and put it back together. Robot has a video on how to pull it. I left the throttle cable hooked up because you don't need to pull it out of the engine well to do this.

If that isn't it then try Tierney's suggestion and check your valves. Idle issues can happen if the valves need adjusting.
Mon May 31, 2021 7:30 pm

Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
 
Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
Mon May 31, 2021 7:30 pm linkquote
Thanks all! Valve clearances are beyond my skillset. Gonna try replacing the spark plug wire and if that doesn't do it, probably goes to a real wrench.

Yes it could be a leak in some other hose. Since it won't idle not sure how to debug that while adding throttle to keep scoot running then spray carb cleaner or whatnot to see if some hose is leaking and watch for idle to drop, seems problematic for the home mechanic.

Air filter shiz should be AOK. 1) just replaced the filter, the old one did not look bad and 2) air quality here is really good. Rare a scheduled air filter element becomes an issue, I have several vehicles, reasonably maintained vehicles (as are all of mine) no issues with these filters when done at replacement cycle.
Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:22 am

Member
GTS 250,P-200,Rally-200,Honda CB160,Ninja Rabbit
Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Location: Campbell, CA
 
Member
GTS 250,P-200,Rally-200,Honda CB160,Ninja Rabbit
Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Location: Campbell, CA
Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:22 am linkquote
This exact same thing happened to my 06 GTS. It turned out to be the battery. It was old but seemed to be fine when starting the bike. When I tried a battery from another bike, much to my surprise, the problem was solved!
Hope you get sorted soon.
Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:19 pm

Molto Verboso
GTS 250i.e.
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1493
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
 
Molto Verboso
GTS 250i.e.
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1493
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:19 pm linkquote
Chuck a new battery at it.
Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:36 pm

Petty Tyrant
GTS250 GTS300 MP3 500
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 31026
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
GTS250 GTS300 MP3 500
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 31026
Location: Bay Area, California
Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:36 pm linkquote
gary s. wrote:
This exact same thing happened to my 06 GTS. It turned out to be the battery. It was old but seemed to be fine when starting the bike. When I tried a battery from another bike, much to my surprise, the problem was solved!
Hope you get sorted soon.
This is a really interesting possibility. I wouldn't have guessed this would be a problem, but it is definitely plausible.
Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:45 pm

Member
GTS 250,P-200,Rally-200,Honda CB160,Ninja Rabbit
Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Location: Campbell, CA
 
Member
GTS 250,P-200,Rally-200,Honda CB160,Ninja Rabbit
Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Location: Campbell, CA
Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:45 pm linkquote
I only reluctantly tried another battery after someone else suggested it could cause the idle problem.
Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:04 pm

Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
 
Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:04 pm linkquote
New battery on order. Thanks all! I'll be chagrined if a $50 battery fixes this after a $400 fuel pump assembly -- Doin my bit for the economy I guess
Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:38 am

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4425
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4425
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:38 am linkquote
I guess you already ordered the battery but if you have the time go get the battery tested at a place like Battery Plus. They have always treated me right and the batteries are fresh and not some rinky-dink battery that frequent sells for cheap on the internet.
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:08 pm

Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
 
Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:08 pm linkquote
New battery arrived. Installed. Idles fair with some noise which is a huge improvement!

Old battery seems to be quite low on fluid, probably damaged.

Since it's at 12,000 miles+ I had rollers / etc. on the maintenance todo list so will do that here shortly and see if the idle noise abates maybe its the variator guides or whatnot.

More as it develops....
Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:28 am

Addicted
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 889
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
 
Addicted
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 889
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:28 am linkquote
voodooskin wrote:
New battery arrived. Installed. Idles fair with some noise which is a huge improvement!

Old battery seems to be quite low on fluid, probably damaged.

Since it's at 12,000 miles+ I had rollers / etc. on the maintenance todo list so will do that here shortly and see if the idle noise abates maybe its the variator guides or whatnot.

More as it develops....
Have you had it out for a longish run with the new battery, is it still stalling out when coming to a stop?
Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:15 pm

Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
 
Enthusiast
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon
Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:15 pm linkquote
While I had the thing partially dismantled anyway I went ahead and did some of the maintenance I had intended to do four months ago - rollers & guides. That put an end to the idle noise.

Running like a top now, definitely the battery. The (now deceased) battery was put in 3 years and 5000 miles ago. I never once checked the electrolyte level (Vespa does not make it easy to check these particular batteries - no sight line and removal is a minor hassle).

Thanks for the excellent suggestions. Most expensive suggestion for what was wrong came from none other than myself (fuel pump) - lesson, ask the forum first next time!
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:15 pm

Addicted
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 889
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
 
Addicted
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 889
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:15 pm linkquote
voodooskin wrote:
Thanks for the excellent suggestions. Most expensive suggestion for what was wrong came from none other than myself (fuel pump) - lesson, ask the forum first next time!
A lesson learnt perhaps. Well done for getting her running sweetly again.
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:55 pm

Addicted
BV 350
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 927
Location: Nebraska
 
Addicted
BV 350
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 927
Location: Nebraska
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:55 pm linkquote
Funny it would restart with a bad battery, but not idle.

Often a vacuum leak will cause idle problems. You can spray carb cleaner on suspected connections, and if the idle speeds up (the spray acts as fuel) you've found your leak.

On a different fuel-inject scooter, had a similar problem. Dumped some injector cleaner in the gas (my fave is Techron) and a tank later it was solved. So now I buy tier1 premium (no ethanol) for it, and no further problems.
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