Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:46 pm

Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
 
Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:46 pm linkquote
June 2, 2021

Hello All,

I need some advice to upgrade my headlight to an LED. I have a 1997 PX 200 (registered as a 1979), electric start. For as long as I have had this bike (about 4 years), my headlight visibility has been weak, weak, weak..My initial attempts to upgrade got as far as a halogen bulb, which, comparatively, was like, okay, before it was a matchstick, and now it is maybe a candle. So, not much improvement from the standard bulb.

Recently, Scooter Mercado sold me a headlight assembly which does not fit my bike. (This was after I inquired, mind you.) Perhaps it was me who mis-communicated, or didn't articulate, but when I read "headlight assembly conversion," well, I take that to mean that the assembly part is what is being converted. I don't take the "conversion" reference to mean changing from a standard to a halogen bulb, which, thank you very much, I have already managed on my own, and how is that a conversion?

Long story short, I have committed myself to upgrading to an LED. In so doing, I am equally committed to avoiding any blow-outs, which I understand can occur. When I first looked into upgrades, just going by the availability of bulb size, it seemed there were more options for models which had the same type of assembly Mercato sold me. I have attached a photo of the kind of assembly I have presently.

My question is, in converting to LED, do I not need a voltage regulator, first and foremost?

Secondly, do I retain the assembly I have now?

Or do I rewire it to the kind of assembly Mercato sold me?

Apart from finding a greater selection of bulbs/lights, is there any difference in how each assembly receives/takes charges from the 12v battery?

Has anyone had to switch out/convert the assembly before they could put in an LED? Or does it even make a difference at all?

Priority wise, let's focus on the regulator for now. Has anyone had to put in a voltage regulator? Would the new one replace the Ducati one that is standard? Recommendations? Things to watch out for?

Or would this be some kind of add-on somewhere? What is the new one going to do, differently, from what the Ducati regulator does now?

I am open to whatever works BRIGHTEST without putting my bike in electro-mechanical risk or jeopardy.

Any comments or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Nicole


Current Assembly


Assembly Mercato sold me as a "Conversion"

Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:31 pm

Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 53
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 53
Location: San Jose, CA
Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:31 pm linkquote
What scooter mercato sold you is correct. you can use that in any P series scoter from 2007-2016. Its a complete conversion. The modern post 2000 unit which is a better reflector and you can run a better bulb. You just need to install it. You need to post a pic of your scooter and headlight which would help us here. You can try and LED bulb - try an H4 LED. Sometimes you can get good results. Your regulator is fine. If you converted your turn signals to LED you would need a flasher for LED as the lower wattage would make them blink fast. A more powerful stator can power a more powerful halogen resulting in brighter light. Im in the bay area (San Jose) if you need help. You can PM me. I do LED conversions on all of my motos and scoots.
If you want a proper LED conversion this is your option.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/headlight-unit-sip-performance-led-round-o-143-mm_57217100?q=Headlight%20Unit%20LED

Last edited by almogavar69 on Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:26 am; edited 1 time in total
Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:59 am

Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
 
Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:59 am linkquote
Response P Series Headlight Assembly & Regulator for LED
Hello,

Thanks for your response. I am little confused, as you mentioned (the Mercato) assembly is correct for my bike, since it can be used on any P series from 2007 to 2016. That is 10 years ahead of me. I am 1997, so the assembly would have to be rewired, soldered (sp?) with different connectors, etc. to attach to Mercato.

I will take photos of what I have tomorrow and post them. But the photo I added earlier is a very good replica. The link to the one SIP is offering ($200!) is for VBB and small frames, 6V, I think.

But, to recap, your recommendation would be:

1) Rewire my assembly to the newer one (Mercato): and

2) Try an H4 LED (without changing regulator); or

3) Making no other changes, (except) to replace my current stator for one with more power, and try another Halogen.

Did I get that right?

I think I will try and PM you since you so kindly offered!

Thanks again!

Nicole
Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:18 am

Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1698
Location: UK (South East)
 
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1698
Location: UK (South East)
Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:18 am linkquote
The Mercato 'conversion' is merely the headlamp and bulb holder unit for a late PX. I am using one on my 1987 PX and the light is lovely and bright, so much so that I am no longer pursuing the LED option. Mine is a non-battery 200 with the stock Ducati ignition system. In one of my other scooters (1976 VBC with 12v), I have used a BA20D 'super white xenon' bulb in the original headlight unit. It is also lovely and bright
Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:28 am

Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 53
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 53
Location: San Jose, CA
Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:28 am linkquote
Re: Response P Series Headlight Assembly & Regulator for
nicolewolff wrote:
Hello,

Thanks for your response. I am little confused, as you mentioned (the Mercato) assembly is correct for my bike, since it can be used on any P series from 2007 to 2016. That is 10 years ahead of me. I am 1997, so the assembly would have to be rewired, soldered (sp?) with different connectors, etc. to attach to Mercato.

I will take photos of what I have tomorrow and post them. But the photo I added earlier is a very good replica. The link to the one SIP is offering ($200!) is for VBB and small frames, 6V, I think.

But, to recap, your recommendation would be:

1) Rewire my assembly to the newer one (Mercato): and

2) Try an H4 LED (without changing regulator); or

3) Making no other changes, (except) to replace my current stator for one with more power, and try another Halogen.

Did I get that right?

I think I will try and PM you since you so kindly offered!

Thanks again!

Nicole
Sorry - wrong link. Fixed. Swapping out your unit for the one supplied by scooter mercato is pretty easy. Forget about the regulator. Its just not part of the equation for a better headlight on your PX. And forget the stator. I forgot its not a USA P200. Your PX has the BA style bulb, not the H4.Yes - PM me when you get a chance.
Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:15 am

Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1698
Location: UK (South East)
 
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1698
Location: UK (South East)
Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:15 am linkquote
^^ Agreed. I just cut off the two grey connectors, then crimped on male spade terminals and connected to the older loom. It was dead easy
Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:38 am

Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
 
Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:38 am linkquote
Assembly Connection
Thanks everyone for the advice.

I will try and wire the Mercato assembly. When you say "cut off the two grey connectors, then crimped on male spade terminals," could you be a little more specific?

Where did you connect to "the older loom?" Precisely? What did you use to crimp? And how do I distinguish a male spade terminal? (I think I know exactly what you are referring to, but I want to make sure we are on the same page).If you have any photos you could share, that would be great. Thanks again for the advice!
Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:03 pm

Hooked
'65 Sprint 177
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 444
Location: Dorset, UK
 
Hooked
'65 Sprint 177
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 444
Location: Dorset, UK
Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:03 pm linkquote
male spade on the left female on the right...one goes into the other. You might have an 'insulated' female spade meaning its covered in plastic to stop short circuits. They all do the same thing.
HTH
Kevin



Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:25 pm

Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1698
Location: UK (South East)
 
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1698
Location: UK (South East)
Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:25 pm linkquote
The 'older' loom that I'm referring to is the original 1987 PX200E main loom and also the switch loom that is in my scooter. I did not want to modify it in any way, preferring to keep the loom stock and modify only the headlamp unit wiring. From memory, you should find purple and brown wires in one of the grey connectors. These are for the main H4 headlamp bulb. One is low beam, the other high beam....I don't recall which. Simply cut off the connector and crimp suitable male spade terminals onto them (or just use needle nose pliers). You should find a corresponding purple and brown that would have connected to your old bulb holder. They should have female spades, so just connect them to the males on the new bulb connector.

You'll find a black and a yellow/black in the other grey connector. Remove the connector and replace with male spades. The yellow/black is for the small side/parking bulb. Your loom may have a white (mine did), but it may have a corresponding yellow/black, given that it's ten years newer than mine. Regardless, this wire connects to the yellow/black for the side bulb.

You are left with a black wire, which serves as earth for both bulbs. You'll see how the earths for both bulbs join together in the third socket of the new bulb connector. Take this last wire, put a male spade on it and connect it to the black from the loom. All your lights should now work.
Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:59 pm

Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
 
Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:59 pm linkquote
Here is what I got - and Further Clarification
Hello and Thanks again for the advice/assistance -

Attached is a photo of my current wiring. Sorry for the glare. There are three photos in total. Fairly self explanatory. First photo is my current wiring/terminals set up. Followed by the assembly from Mercato, and I circled in red where I am confused in crimping these together. Last is another shot of existing wiring, which I outlined in blue my question of should I leave these terminals As Is.

My principal question being: Do I take off the current spade things on the existing wiring (first photo), or vice versa? (new p series assembly)?

After re-reading your instructions, I think you are suggesting I cut off the connectors from photo 2 (assembly) and crimp male spades on, is that right? Then connect the existing wiring terminals that way?

To clarify, I added a third photo, pointing to the existing spade terminals, which, if I understand correctly, you recommend I leave on and connect by adding male spades to the Mercato assembly? Is that correct?

(Sorry, I known this must sound repetitive, well, it is repetitive, no question, but repetition is how I sometimes need to figure things out...)

If so, would I then need to put some kind of heat shrink connector?

And, while it may seem easy to you, for someone who is not familiar, would the substitution of a needle nose pliers be adequate? I mean, I would think so, but, again, not being familiar, I would hate to f--k things up just because I did not use a crimper. Some jobs require the precise tool, and I am just curious the level of precision that a crimper tool is necessary here....

Already, you have been a great help. So, once again, many thanks!







Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:23 pm

Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1698
Location: UK (South East)
 
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1698
Location: UK (South East)
Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:23 pm linkquote
Correct. Far better to modify the new PX headlamp unit from Mercato, not the scooter's wiring looms. This leaves the scooters switch wiring as the factory intended, in case you ever want to revert to the original headlight. In fact, I have a new old stock glass headlight which I will be fitting soon, together with a BA20D Xenon bulb for brightness. I have decided that I don't like the clear plastic look of the late PX headlamp.

Back to your setup. Your objective is to connect that new headlamp unit using spade connectors, so yes you need to cut off those grey plastic connectors in picture 2 and then fit male spades, just like you have on the old bulb holder. You'll be doing this to four wires (purple, brown, yellow/black and black. I used needle nosed pliers and was very careful folding the tabs over, but a proper crimping tool may be quicker if you have one. Heatshrink would be a good idea to protect against exposed metal and the risk of shorting.

Looks like you have a yellow/black wire from your switch to your side bulb. This is where we differ, as I have the older white wire, but it's the same wire.
Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:33 pm

Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 53
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 53
Location: San Jose, CA
Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:23 am

Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
 
Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:23 am linkquote
Update June 6 2021

Well, I refitted my assembly. Took a bit of time taking the other connectors off and then finding the right male spade(s) was no walk in the park, either.

After all was complete, turned it on, worked for about a second. Then, nothing. Now my blinkers/indicators don't even work!! javascript:emoticon('')

All of the replaced male spades have the plastic thingy - sheath whatever, I did not heat shrink, I used these covered male spades and then I crimped. The plastic covering thing for the spades are kind of bulky and I did not yet succeed in placing all these wires under the rubber end that came with the Mercato assembly.

Could this be the culprit? I have to say, I was really pissed off that it didn't work, and that I possibly blew my light and god knows what else, so I had to step away for a good moment. I will take a photo and perhaps someone who lives in my world (where things are not "easy" and "simple") can offer a suggestion as to what went wrong?

What are some potential problems someone like me is liable to run into? I am going to (1) first try and refit the wires into the rubber (back?) of the assembly. I don't know that this is possible; then (2) review each new spade to see if the wires are properly connected to the spade terminals; after that, I am open to suggestions!

Though now I am not sure if the light is blown or not? Is there a way I can check? Visually, I mean, on the bulb? If it is blown, and I fix the wires (assuming that is the only issue -now-), how will I know whether I fixed (the wires) or not?

Any thoughts or comments would be most welcome.
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:42 am

Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 53
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 53
Location: San Jose, CA
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:42 am linkquote
Check the fuse
nicolewolff wrote:
Update June 6 2021

Well, I refitted my assembly. Took a bit of time taking the other connectors off and then finding the right male spade(s) was no walk in the park, either.

After all was complete, turned it on, worked for about a second. Then, nothing. Now my blinkers/indicators don't even work!! javascript:emoticon('')

All of the replaced male spades have the plastic thingy - sheath whatever, I did not heat shrink, I used these covered male spades and then I crimped. The plastic covering thing for the spades are kind of bulky and I did not yet succeed in placing all these wires under the rubber end that came with the Mercato assembly.

Could this be the culprit? I have to say, I was really pissed off that it didn't work, and that I possibly blew my light and god knows what else, so I had to step away for a good moment. I will take a photo and perhaps someone who lives in my world (where things are not "easy" and "simple") can offer a suggestion as to what went wrong?

What are some potential problems someone like me is liable to run into? I am going to (1) first try and refit the wires into the rubber (back?) of the assembly. I don't know that this is possible; then (2) review each new spade to see if the wires are properly connected to the spade terminals; after that, I am open to suggestions!

Though now I am not sure if the light is blown or not? Is there a way I can check? Visually, I mean, on the bulb? If it is blown, and I fix the wires (assuming that is the only issue -now-), how will I know whether I fixed (the wires) or not?

Any thoughts or comments would be most welcome.
Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:00 pm

Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
 
Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:00 pm linkquote
Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my Haynes manual has some round about way of showing/telling me, but where is the fuse? And., how do I check it?

I know this is basic shit I should definitely know by now but I dont, so that's why I am asking. Appreciate your patience!

Also, in rechecking the wires, I noticed the black wire which connects two black wires (this is part of the loom) it's plastic sheath thingy came off at some point and it looks as though it may be frayed a bit. Sufficiently so that it needs to be replaced.

Well, that looks to be rather tricky, since I can honestly say when I was out shopping for male spade terminals, I never saw what appears to be an adjoining one like this. One part is female (this is where the frayed wire is) and the other part almost looks like it is glued on top?

This is the wire that is partially connected to the clutch lever.

Maybe there are these kind of terminals and I just have not seen them. I do not know . Does anyone know where I can obtain such a funky terminal set-up? And, failling that, what I might subsitute as a work-around instead?

Again, many thanks in advance for your patience and recommendations





Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:33 pm

Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 53
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 53
Location: San Jose, CA
Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:33 pm linkquote
fuse is next to the battery box. If you are looking at it from the side its to the left.
nicolewolff wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my Haynes manual has some round about way of showing/telling me, but where is the fuse? And., how do I check it?

I know this is basic shit I should definitely know by now but I dont, so that's why I am asking. Appreciate your patience!

Also, in rechecking the wires, I noticed the black wire which connects two black wires (this is part of the loom) it's plastic sheath thingy came off at some point and it looks as though it may be frayed a bit. Sufficiently so that it needs to be replaced.

Well, that looks to be rather tricky, since I can honestly say when I was out shopping for male spade terminals, I never saw what appears to be an adjoining one like this. One part is female (this is where the frayed wire is) and the other part almost looks like it is glued on top?

This is the wire that is partially connected to the clutch lever.

Maybe there are these kind of terminals and I just have not seen them. I do not know . Does anyone know where I can obtain such a funky terminal set-up? And, failling that, what I might subsitute as a work-around instead?

Again, many thanks in advance for your patience and recommendations
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:23 pm

Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
 
Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:23 pm linkquote
Thank you.

Update. It was not the fuse. I checked and rechecked all wires. I even replaced the piggyback terminal that was a bit frayed on my loom. I went and bought another bulb, to see if that may be the issue.

Put everything in, exactly where it was supposed to be, and nothing!!! Tried again with a different bulb, and again, nothing. So, by now, I know it is not the wires, and I decide to put back in my old lamp assembly to see if I really did f**k something up or what. Put everything back, lite up like a charm.

Everything works just fine (well, about from candlelight wattage, but that is par for course). In fact, it works better, because before I only had three out of my four indicators/blinkers working, which I settled for cause the one which was not working was in front, so...anyway, now they all work!

So I am guessing the frayed piggy-back spade terminal had something to do with that. BTW, in case anyone is curious, besides the term "piggy-back," the type of terminal set up I was referring to earlier is also known as a "Grote."

So, there is that at least. And really, now I guess the question is why the assembly does not work, which I already had to eat as a (financial) loss anyway, so..I will look into other methods of conversion.

As always, I remain open to any suggestions!!
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:34 pm

Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 1029
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
 
Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 1029
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:34 pm linkquote
Try to figure out why the original headlight is dim. Its not normal for a P to have headlights bright as a candlelight. Something is wrong somewhere. Where???? I dunno but with the correct diagram and a multimeter I'm sure you can figure it out. If you fixed the turn signals there also maybe problems with other wires.

Getting a LED headlight does not usually fiix a dim headlight. Keep digging and I'm sure you will find a solution.

Good luck!
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:03 pm

Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
 
Member
Vespa PX 200 (1997)
Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Location: SF Bay Area
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:03 pm linkquote
Good Point!!

You bring up a very good point and I shall adhere to your advice. I have a halogen in right now. Perhaps it is only the bulb?

I shall take your advice under consideration. The bike is coming on its 24th year, so there are quite a number of things which have to be replaced in their entirity, and I expect the wiring to be among those. So. Perhaps my energy would be better spent elsewhere?

To reiterate my objective, it is not so much LED in and of itself (though I do like the idea that is does not draw so much power from the battery). My objective is clear: Whatever works brightest without putting my bike at electo-mechanical risk or injury. (Battery drain or no, I can swap out batteries more frequently in exchange for vision).

I think my next effort will be to try different bulbs and see what happens. Thanks again!
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