Modern Vespa

Hey all

So many of you will know I was in a pretty bad accident a few months back. My recovery is ongoing and I'm looking at physiotherapy for a long time and probably a permanently buggered knee. I am however well enough to ride and feel that my left leg has pretty good strength.

My issue is that I'm afraid of my big touring bike, the BMW K1600GT Sport. It's no small bike and is a beast when it comes to size and power. I've sat in it a few times but that's about it. The other issue is we have a really tricky parking garage with a tight left to exit and a tight left again then a tight right at the top of a steep incline. So the tricky bit starts even before I hit the street.

I didn't put NSR on this as I know some riders feel that way about the large frame scoots, the freeway, rain and just riding in general. So my question is how do you deal with it? Any ment tricks to build up the confidence or do you just grin and bear it? Honestly for me it's usually a matter of just gritting my teeth and doing it. Stress is something I deal with professionally all the time and riding is my release. Bugs me that I can't build up the courage to ride what is a beautiful motorcycle and used to think nothing of getting on it. For now I'm thinking back on the tender tonight and give it a go eary tomorrow.

I'm sure there are some pretty good stories here from MVERS that have been in similar situations.

When you have regained confidence with the Vespa then you will also have it for larger vehicles, that's all.
When I had my big scooter accident in 1987 it was a good five years before I found the courage to get back on the bike.
I bought a small moped and with that, in small doses, I began to make short trips and out of the city.
Then I went up in displacement and size and so on until I reached the T Max; from that height I looked around me and like a prophet on the top of a mountain I told myself that the test had been passed.
I could descend and find peace in something that gave me peace of mind, and so here I am: "ecce homo" (Gospel of John (19.5).

Harbinger,
I did have a similar situation after I got hit. My motorcycle is 200 lbs lighter than yours but its still 600+ lbs! In my case it's a steep driveway with a quick stop at the top before entering the road. I made a conscious decision to just go-for-it and let muscle memory take over and not over-think it.

Once out on the road I was OK but skeptical of cars around me - that was probably healthy anyway. I'd always made use of my horn, tooting at anyone who could enter my path and not looking at me. That helped to make sure those drivers looked my way. If they don't look my way, I give them a longer blast. I know some MVers are not big horn advocates but its an effective way to get others to see me and gives me confidence that at least that driver won't hit me. I use the horn more liberally after getting hit.

As you probably know, 85% of all motorcycle accidents are caused but things in front of you. When it involves another vehicle, its often because they didn't see you. I have maximized my chances of being seen by using bright yellow running lights (Clearwater Darla), hi-beam on virtually all the time during the day, hi-viz helmet and a high-viz vest over whatever jacket I'm wearing. Again, some MVers are not hi-beam advocates but I don't think I'm blinding anyone. I put my bike on the center stand and walked down the road to see how conspicuous it was. You can't miss me. If I stop someplace, I remove and store the vest with my overpants and I'm back in hipster garb. Does it all work, I don't know but it doesn't hurt and gives me confidence I'm visible. It just eff'ing hurts when you get hit and takes a long time to recover. I do everything I can to avoid it.

Also, when you get out on your first few rides, go when its quiet out to reduce the stress.

I've confidence in you. You'll be fine.

Cheers! Miguel

I rode a BMW K1600GTL about ten years ago. I had it for 5 days doing a review and knew it was a stretch for me to ride. Underway it was a dream on the highway, but the low speed/no speed stuff was awful. I remember one tricky stop sign and turn going up a mountain where I thought I might drop the bike. I didn't but it did have me wondering how skilled I would become under normal riding conditions.

That big bike, regardless of my previous riding experience, would require training on my part if I had planned to own one. Either me performing specific maneuvers over and over until I became comfortable, or attending professional training.

Each time I get on a new machine, motorcycle or scooter, I experience some level of the fear factor. And I'm not coming off a bad crash. I'm just talking about the anxiety I feel wondering if I'll be able to handle the machine. I have a ritual I go through to deal with that. I go through a few starting, stopping, and slow speed turning exercises to get a feel for the throttle, brakes, and weight. That USUALLY gets me past the psychological concerns and I'm on my way.

As I've gotten older -- 10 years past the K1600GTL experience -- and pushing 67 I've realized my strength has changed and there are some machines that are beyond my physical capability. While many smaller people might easily handle the K1600, my body is no longer as limber, strong, and flexible as it once was and it would make dealing with such a ponderous machine more difficult. Could I ride one? Yes. But I would no longer want to.

I love riding my BMW K75. But I realize there will come a time when I am physically not prepared to ride it. Not that I can't, but I shouldn't. It's tall and heavy. And at some point it won't make sense.

You asked about tricks to get past this stuff. My trick is an honest appraisal of my physical condition -- strength, flexibility, and pain level which can suddenly cause a loss of strength, and also an assessment of my emotional state in regard to the machine -- basically, am I afraid of it. If I can look in the mirror and honestly make those assessments the answer of whether to ride something in particular will be apparent to me.

One aside -- your description of your parking situation coupled with your mending bones and joints just make me shiver thinking about the K1600.

Seems like there are plenty of other touring bikes that would be far easier to manage.

My 8 cents!

In Italy, having a well audible horn and knowing how to use it well is vital, so I will say that when you buy any vehicle the first upgrade is towards the horn.
My car was upgraded with double horn and also my scooter, on the scooter I simply added another round horn but with a different tone.
When do i use it?
Many car drivers here drive by talking on the phone or chatting ...
Situations:
1) at the traffic lights when it turns green
2) on the street when you see that the car coming in front, is slowly invading your lane in opposite side
3) at intersections when they have to turn left and you arrive on the other side, they will cut your way without giving way
4) when they leave car parks, intersections or driveways
5) when they stop suddenly and open the door while you pass them
6) when making maneuvers they are about to come against you
7) when I leave at the traffic light with green light and there are those who pass equally even if it has red light
8) when they overtake you and squeeze you against the side of the road
9) when you get behind a car that turns without putting on the direction indicator
10) when they throw you the lit cigarette from the window or other things
I should put other things but it would be long and in any case take these warnings as a guide if you intend to tour Italy on a Vespa.

Hi Harbinger! I have been following your story and recovery on here, thank you for sharing.

I am new to scooters but rode horses for almost 40 years, some low-level competing (eventing, jumpers), some trail/pleasure. Like 2-wheel riding, horseback riding is pretty dangerous business as well, and I had my share of serious falls and injuries, broken bones, concussions, ambulance trips, etc. Learning to ride in the era I was taught, the cardinal rule was, "you fall off, you get back on. Right away, no matter what." So no matter the injury, getting back on was never an option, you just did it. And I did, more times than I can count.

None of those things gave me much pause when I was younger, but by my early 40's, the risk started overweighing the reward. Am I doing this because I *want* to or because I feel like I *have* to? Am I doing it because I truly enjoy it, or because I need to confront my fear??

Finally I just came to the realization that I really don't have to prove anything to anyone anymore. If I'm supposed to be doing this thing for fun, if it's NOT fun then why am I doing it??? I know I CAN get back on, but if it's not giving me joy, then what's the point??? Riding isn't my JOB, it doesn't give me a paycheck and it doesn't define who I am.

So I took one last long and lovely trail ride on my horse, and I adopted him out to a friend. I'm not a failure because I decided to stop riding... It was a great chapter in my life, but the next chapter has begun. So now I'm learning how to ride scooters.

So all this to say, nobody is saying you HAVE to ride that bike. If you feel some need to confront fear and can do it as safely as possible, do it if you want to. (Is there someone else who can ride it out of your parking garage and around the twists to a safer place for you to get on?) But if you DON'T want to, there's not a thing in the world wrong with that either. It's just a bike, it doesn't have feelings and it isn't judging you. Your next chapter just might not include big bikes, and if that's the case, so be it. Viva la Vespa!

I have been fortunate. I was run off the road on my Ducati Scrambler in
Italy. Lost some skin - but came out okay. The scrambler did better - just had to replace the rubber hand grip. Since those bygone days of yesteryear,
I have been lucky - nothing.

I am not paranoid, but I do think about getting hit every time I ride. Good advise already posted. Here is my limited contribution:

1. Stay way back from cars in front and limit lane changes.
2. As already mentioned in this thread, I eagle eye vehicles in front for
potential lane changes or pulling out in front of me or left turning me.
If the motorist has not locked his eyes on me, I slow to a crawl.
3. Limit Exposure - I no longer scoot to work.

Ride Safe my comrades on two wheels. Our bond is to live to ride again.

Bob Copeland
Frost Bite Falls Minnesota

Building confidance is all about repitition. Use the Vespa as a bridge to the big bike. Ride it in and out of your garage entrance until you feel appropriatly comfortable. Then move to two-up or similar for the added weight. Once youre feeling confident, try the big boy and repeat the process.

Don't be hard on yourself, it takes time.

There are some excellent insights in this write-up by VESPAsfw3. And I also like cnvh's observation. Good stuff to think about.

Thanks for the responses all and some good info and stories. As is riding is not something I'm worried about. On the Vespa I feel just fine including on the freeway BUT I do find myself more hyper aware of what is going on around me. My riding isn't exactly where I want it and I do find myself a little bit off. I can't tell if it's from myself being a little hesitant or the fact that I've spent a lot of time on a Ural which is a very different beast than the Vespa. I had to switch out today to go pick something up and the Ural literally felt like a tank. It could also be the injury and how I carry myself now , my physiotherapist says I absolutely favour one side over the other.

Next week we go to our first cottage rental of 3 for the summer. It's about a 4 hour ride and I have to figure out what to bring. A few months ago my obvious answer would be the BMW but now I'm not sure. The Ural is an option but I've done this trip on it and it's a real haul as a lot of it is on the slab. Back roads are an option but add a few hours or so. As is I'm thinking the Vespa but I will have to be mindful that I'm still breaking in the engine.

My only crash on a PTW was a low-side at low speed the day after I bought my first BV. I knew why I crashed (poor brake/throttle control due to poor flexibility in my right wrist, coupled with loose gravel in the parking lot), so it wasn't a big deal at all to get back on it 4 days later.

I have, however, crashed my bicycles three times, and broke bones in two of them. The worst was my first crash, where I fell 20 feet at 15 mph, landing on my head and with my right arm outstretched to break the fall. I was unconscious for 5-10 minutes (per my friends), and crushed my wrist. It took me 3 or 4 months to fully heal the wrist. I didn't do any physical therapy on it (hence the poor flexibility). I had no trepidation with getting back on to ride. I figured that I knew what my limit was, and actually rode more aggressively than before the crash.

My brother wrecked his Gixxer about 19 years ago. He was doing 120+ mph when the motor seized as he was about to enter a downhill right-hand curve. He lost control and launched into a hayfield. He doesn't remember much about the incident, other than being angry before the crash, and waking up in the hospital. He crushed both wrists, cracked some ribs and a vertebrae, lacerated his liver, and shattered his spleen. About 10 years later, his wife asked if he wanted to buy another motorcycle for commuting. He wasn't sure if he wanted to ride again, and went to a shop that allowed him to take their 2-year old SV650 out. He said it took him about an hour to work up the nerve to ride it faster than 30 mph. He spent three hours on it, and ended up buying it the next week.

So, as others have said, one just has to "get back on the horse," so to speak. Take it slow, and take your time. There's no need to go balls-out right away.

If you have a riding buddy, see if he can help you get it out and then into the garage for you. That way you can focus on the flat roads for the time being.

After that, like everyone's said, slow and steady and when you feel good, rip the band aid off and go for it!!

I haven't crashed on two or three wheels (knocks lightly on some woody substance).

Anyway, I came *REALLY* close to hitting a deer around 6 years ago.

At 70 MPH or so.

Despite not touching the thing, it sure left a mark.

No more riding in the dark (at least not on the interstate).
Lots of twitchy feeling when I see a deer, any time, any where.
Perhaps it's a sort of twist on a common saying.
I get tremors for All the Deer, All the Time.

Just this morning on my way to work I saw a deer.
WAY ahead of me.
I slowed down.
Check right, check left. Checkrightcheckleftcheckrightcheckleftfuckwherethehellaretherestofthem?

A. Deer.

As taught in MSF classes, the drivers eyes being locked on you means nothing. They can be staring right at you but not actually see you at all which is why you should ignore the driver and watch the tires. They never lie.

Madison in Wisconsin is a very dangerous place to go on the road with a vehicle, I believe that most of the inhabitants drive a Bronco with a reinforced bumper and drive the Vespa (or other two-wheeled vehicle) with a lucky cornet hanging from the bag hook.

I was very sorry to hear of your accident a while back. I think you are now experiencing a fairly normal response to getting back on the bike. But think of it this way. You ARE a competent rider...and something happened to upset that feeling of competence. But the reality is, nothings actually changed (aside from bodily damage and a confidence issue) and is just your confidence that needs building up. Add to that you have at least got something from the accident experience to keep in mind for the future that can only add to your safety.

I think you will find that if you get back on the bikes but take your time going everywhere, perhaps do some quieter ride outs on your own, you'll find everything starts to get back to normal fairly quickly. If it doesn't, consider some advanced rider training to boost you confidence.

Good luck.

Take it easy.

If I were you, I'd probably take the new GTS to the cottage trip - it's a new bike after all
On the long stretches just vary your speed a bit and roll of the gas occasionally.

A 1600 beamer is a big bike. Very rare around here, as folks here prefer boxer engines. The only K1600 owner I know (not well, a work colleague of my mate) has also several bikes and is a very experienced rider. Still, I remember him saying that he can't bother taking the 1600 out if the reason is not at least a few hundreds mile trip ahead.... so in many ways, it is very natural that it takes more time to get back in the saddle with that one. Why not built back riding reflexes with the Vespa first.

I've had my fears in the past... and as I have the ~7months non-riding season every year, there is a short period of feeling a bit alien with my bike every year. This took place also with my Vespa - it was so much more agile than 'normal' bikes, that it took some time to get used to it.

Actually just yesterday rode the second time this year, it's been a busy spring. The first was pure re-learning: slow speed balance, counter steering etc. This second ride started with much more confident feeling and after riding ~2 hours in various twisty b-roads and 2 gravel shortcuts, I felt right at home again.

To sum it up - I believe GTS could right now be the perfect combination of 'just do it' and 'take your time'

Coming back from an accident takes time. Not just the physical healing. You know the pain, work and inconvenience you have to deal with after an injury accident. Only you can decide if the heft of the BMW is something you want to deal with... but, I certainly understand.

There is a difference between fear and logic... and choosing to ride something smaller and easier to handle is logic. After 40 years of riding and plenty of long distance touring, we chose to downsize our bikes. My wife moved from a Goldwing to a sportbike. I went from a Harley Ultra to a BMW RT. Eventually downsized to a V-Strom. And 8 years ago, even that was more bike than I wanted to muscle around. This brought us to scooters.

Glad to see you have been getting out on the new Vespa. It is certainly a lot less work to muscle around than your K1600. It may be logic at work when you consider the enjoyment vs work ratio of the BMW. I wouldn't be surprised if your confidence level climbs with more time on the Vespa, though. I would say give it more time... but if you look at the BMW and think "That's more work than I want to deal with, " instead of: "I can't wait to get back on that bike again," you may have your decision.

Sending good vibes your way for continued healing. The choices will sort themselves out.

To be less dramatic...
By tying these around the Vespa there is greater protection ...



Cheer up Harbinger, you are a person of character and you will make it ..!

I will add my two bits.

I always have hopped on and ridden my scooters.

Never a negative thought or concern.

And I have always made it home.

But earlier this year, one of our club members took a ride from Jacksonville to Naples, Florida.

Along the way, near Ocala, word has it that he rode into the side of a truck.

No details other than that for me.

His name was Fal de Saint Phalle.

He bought a Piaggio Liberty last year and rode it with the club for many months.

Then traded it in for an Xmax.

I barely knew him as I hadn't been riding much with the club and he only joined last year.

But he was kind, and smart, and an all around good guy, i discovered when he joined in on one of the big rides in October.

He was a good, safe rider.

But his sudden death has been felt greatly by me.

I went for a ride with another friend on the same color and year Xmax a week later. All I could do was be concerned for his safety.

And I took a long ride shortly after that. Fal was on my mind on almost every mile.

I kept thinking that once I made it home, all would be good again.

And maybe it is, but it is probably the incident that impacts my joy of riding more than anything else to date.

I am glad that you are healing and able to get out again.

I wish Fal could too.

Bill

Years ago I would think nothing of manhandling my 1000cc Kawasaki and did so with dispatch. Years have passed by and I bought a 750 Kawasaki that is almost a hundred pounds lighter. BUT. I have numerous health mishaps, ridden much lighter bikes and don't have the zip I did thirty years ago. Still I fumble along on it.

One thing working against me, and I know it, is that I have much lighter bikes in the garage that I use a lot more. The 250 Nighthawk scales in at 337 pounds to the Kawasaki at 526. Once rolling I am only slightly aware of the difference but pushing around the garage and slow speed maneuvers are night and day.

My advice. Stick to the BMW alone for a couple of weeks to re-adapt to it. I should try that myself one day.

Thanks Bill, that's a touching story and a tough lesson for us all. It can be hard for the survivors as well even if it was only someone you met a few times. We all know the risks we take but do it for so many reasons. If not having this accident meant I had never ridden to begin with I would have it all over again. Riding is that important to me and too much a part of my life and I'm sure I do not speak alone.

Kz - you're right and that is how I learnt to ride it and become comfortable on it even in heavy city traffic and tight turns. I think I rode the BMW and just the BMW for a few months before swapping out bikes regularly again. It also makes a Vespa a blast to ride. Anyone that has used donuts on a baseball bat will get what I mean. The Canadian equivalent would be those orange hockey pucks.

Here she is parked with a buddy last year by the office. Mine has the top case.

Not sure where I read this - a significant Percentage of motorcycle accidents are "single vehicle" accidents. Yeah, just the rider getting himself in trouble*.
Around here, it seems most fatal motorcycle accidents involve the rider leaving the road.

Obviously you do not want to have another off.
Consider riding whatever you feel the most comfortable riding*.....whatever its size. When it's no fun any longer - there's always the Miata Cabrio.
O.S.

I concur with what Guzzi Gal said.

After my hip surgery I don't go on highways anymore. I am gingerly getting back to riding around up to 45 mph. I am taking baby steps.

I'm going to echo a little bit of what cnvh said. You don't have to go back to the BMW. You don't have to go back now, you don't have to go back ever.

Not scooter related, but probably my biggest fear confrontation was when I went to Iraq in 2002 as a civilian (helping rebuild Iraqi law school libraries). I was talking it over with a mentor she said 'you know you don't HAVE to go just because you're afraid.'

Facing my fears has always been important to me. And the wording I was using made her wonder if I felt obligated to go just to face my fear. I pondered that for a while because it was a good point. I listened to my own words for a while, and paid attention to the pro and con arguments that seemed most compelling to me - the ones that triggered a gut feeling. In the end I went.

So I would advise really listening to yourself. You can face your fears other ways. But, if that is just a component of your desire to get back on the bike listen to what your gut is saying. I'm going to buck the trend and say wait a while. As time passes your body will heal more and your desire will build. You'll also gain more knowledge of how your body responds when pushing its limits. Eventually, the desire will outweigh the fear.

From what I hear from you on the forum, I don't think you have to jump back into the saddle to keep the fear from growing. To me it sounds like you need listen to yourself for a while, develop more knowledge of how your body responds, and to wait until waiting is harder than just doing it.

My long-winded two cents.

If you did it before, you can do it again. "All things are ready if our minds be so".

And you are right - the Ural is a tank. But riding any bike with a hack kind of makes it so.

Actually, just because you did it before doesn't mean you can do it again. Things change.

I rode dirt bikes up until about age 40. Had a number of increasingly severe crashes, until the last one almost put me in a wheelchair. That was it for dirt bikes.

My biggest bike presently is a FJR1300, a good deal lighter than the BMW, but just about all I can handle. I need to be very careful when moving it around that it doesn't get leaned too far, or the wrong way.

I go along with the 'You've got nothing to prove' crowd. If the bikes is too big and heavy, get something more suitable. Good to be cautious, and rational. If your mind is distracted with fear, you are probably not riding safely.

As I age, I fully expect to reach a point where the FJR fits in that category. Kinda looking at the RE 650, lighter, slower, easier. Or maybe just fall back on my BV 350.

Thanks again to everyone that contributed to this thread. We really are an interesting group with tons of knowledge about more than just scoots.

So I've made some progress. By tomorrow morning she'll have a happy battery and I'm taking her out. Might not be a long trip and no way I'm taking her to the cottage this week but I need to get back on. If I'm not comfy I've already decided I will trade down to a 1250 or other model. Last year I was fine on her, it's really just the accident that has me spooked. My damn knee is a constant reminder and I'll just have to get used to it because I think it'll never be the same. At the very least she needs a good cleaning!

Harbinger. It might be worthwhile to pull off the top and side cases to lighten the load, especially the top case. Hopefully your gas tank is closer to empty than full to reduce it's top heaviness. Let us know how it goes.

You'll be fine. Don't over think it. Vroommm

Miguel

Spend a day riding a bicycle in the city. That'll make you feel much safer on the PTW.

... or more scared ...

Thanks Miguel as always. Next time I might do that. Today was just a short run though mostly on the expressway and the K1600GT virtual rides itself when at freeway speeds. For the run through city traffic I may have her go naked. I had fun and man I almost forgot how much power 6 cylinders and 160 HP is. I kept her below 130 kmh though just to be safe.

Good on you!! Seemed like your biggest fear was getting it out of the garage safely with all the tight turns. Glad you conquered that, and safely got it back in. 😎
Miguel

True! Mind you the trick is taking the tight turns especially up an incline is confidence and staying on the throttle . If you freeze, panic or try to overthink yourself that is when drops can occur. Bikes want to stay upright when the wheels are moving no matter how big the motorbike.

Agreed! I avoided a potential fall last Friday on a steep hill that reminded me of your driveway configuration. I was coming over the Santa Cruz Mountains on Highway 17 from Silicon Valley and decided to take the Summit Rd home. The exit is a very tight u-turn up a steep, short hill with a stop sign at the top. Ive done this many times so wasn't concerned. Usually, there no traffic on the exit. This time, there were 7-8 cars backed up to the highway and stopped on the hill. I realized that I was going to have to start and stop on the that steep hill and I was likely to fall if the bike started rolling backwards because I stalled it. So I aborted and went a different way home.

Miguel

Good to hear you got back on the 1600. The knee will likely remind you for a while, but getting out on the bike is the next step to getting back to full confidence. When I had the hip replacement, I was reminded of that surgery every time I put my left foot down while riding. At first.

That was two years ago; these days, I only think about it when a discussion like this comes up. Anyone who has gotten off hard can appreciate what you are going through. You got this.