Modern Vespa

Some of you might be noticing the forum looks a little different in places. Hopefully, most of those places are looking better, but there are undoubtedly some areas that look worse. For that I'm sorry.

I've spent the last couple of weeks - almost every waking hour - doing a massive overhaul of Modern Vespa's HTML and CSS code. The goal is to squeeze the whole site - or, at least, the bulk of it - into a form that will fit on a mobile phone. This has been... well, it's not a fun process, let's put it that way. I am neck deep in code changes, bleary-eyed and exhausted, and I need to draw the line somewhere. There are an endless number of little things that still need changing (and a few big ones!) but I am releasing it as it stands right now, warts and all.

I'm sure I will spend the next couple of weeks fixing the things I broke

This change primarily affects members using Android devices, but it was necessary to change the desktop version of the site as well. In fact, the two are one and the same - Android and desktop users will get identical content from the server, but it will look different on Android. As there is a whole lot of cruft in this forum, the process of making it fit on a mobile device is mostly one of removing cruft. The smaller the screen, the more content gets surgically removed from the page, until it (mostly) fits.

iOS users should not notice any change. Yet. I hope. I have not switched off the dedicated iOS support yet, but that is in fact the plan. Eventually, everyone will live on the exact same version of the site, with adjustments made for individual screen sizes.

EDIT: The old iOS support has been switched off. We are all seeing the same version of the website now.

There are some changes to the desktop version, as some of the older page layout just was not amenable to shrinking down to mobile phone size. The message posting page, for instance, is completely revamped. Lots of other smaller changes around the site as well.

I have focused here on the pages that people use the most: the main index, the forum index, posts, posting, private messages, login, and so on. Pages that I haven't addressed will only shrink down so far (550 pixels, to be precise) before you have to pinch to see the whole page. The Search page is a beast, and I have not addressed it yet. It will still be wide (and difficult to use) on mobile.

Generally, if something looks bad (or too wide) on mobile, you can still turn your phone sideways and get a proper-width page. That's a compromise that we will have to live with for the time being, until I address the remainder of the pages that need revamping. Some pages may never get there.

There shouldn't be too many actual behavior changes, maybe none. The code I've been working on is mostly layout, not process. Still, anything is possible, and I've been wrong before. Once. In 1974. So it could happen again, I guess.

If you see something (especially layout) that looks significantly broken, post it here in this thread. Screen shots are helpful, if you can get them.

Please don't tell me about the emoticon insertion behavior on Chrome. I know, I know already. I'm not fixing it. Well, not this week, anyway. Next week doesn't look much better.

It looks good, Jess.

Indeed.

The little page icon that links to the specific post seems to be missing from the narrow layout:

Bug confirmed. I neglected to add that. I will add it to the list, and I'll start polishing the new batch of MV Entomologist awards. One has your name on it.

Thanks for all the work!

Did we lose the "replied" quick link / artificial forum on purpose to make room? If so, this is perhaps unfortunate because now there's a bunch of open whitespace and I really liked that link!

I also dont see a "just walk away"or cancel button while replying here. Just "preview" and "submit".

And bravo on getting the user profiles above the posts in the narrow view phone version (maybe on pc too, but I haven't checked new layout on my computer yet)!!

They are all still there, but those links get progressively removed the smaller the screen gets. If you turn your phone sideways you should see them.

It's an imperfect process -- I tried to remove them in order of general usefulness, but what I find useful may not be the same as everyone else. Bug confirmed. I borrowed some code from the iOS version, and apparently forgot to put that in. I will add that to the list of fixes. Thanks!

Here's what the main page looks like on an iPhone 8 Plus screen size, which is one of the larger screens available. Even here, there's not much room for those links:

Yes it looks just like that on my Motorola.

I didn't think my phone was particularly big (Samsung Galaxy from a couple years ago), but maybe bigger than I thought because I have quite a bit more whitespace between "New" and the "mark all read" button.

Confirmed I see all the categories again if I rotate screen. I certainly understand you had to make a call on ranking. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm surprised that "mark all read" is a staple because I dont think I've ever used it. The forum seems to auto identify new items based on my visits, so it's not seemed necessary to do it manually? I guess that button must be more generally important than I've realized.

I've added this back now. However, it disappears on displays narrower than 350 pixels.

The forum does in fact keep track of what's new and what you haven't seen. That button is there to tell the forum you're not interested in whatever else you've yet to read. It's not strictly necessary, but it's critical for some people's obsessive habits -- like people who practice Inbox Zero.

Confirmed I see it here.

Post a screenshot, if you can. I did this entire change without actually owning or using an Android phone, so it's quite possible I will be surprised.

Not sure if this will work - I haven't previously attached a photo from my phone and I saw some other posts talking about it being perhaps a little unusual. I wish I had paid more attention

I can say definitively that you should buy a new phone. That looks terrible. The fonts are all squished (I can guarantee my site did not ask for compressed fonts) and the alignment is all whacked.

You got a lemon.

Here's what that page is supposed to look like at a comparable size:

I feel like you're doing all this for me personally.

I'm an Android user and I almost always check in here on my phone when I am at work between clients. I seldom use my laptop for MV.

I'm not the type of person that likes change for changes sake but since you have started this I have seen many changes and they have, invariably been improvements.

My eyes are not once what they once were and the new layout lets me see a whole line of text without zooming or swiping.

I appreciate your hard work and I thank you.

Matthew

Found a new bug related to mobile css!

Editing a pm fails because it demands a subject when no subject field exists in the mobile layout.

A separate award for mobile bug tracking?!

EDIT: bug also exists on desktop version because the edit pm layout is the same desktop and mobile. So it is currently impossible to edit a pm. Clearly not the case with posts as I've edited this one twice!

Hic sunt leones...

you can edit a PM? who knew!

Oh yeah.. I'm a habitual post and pm revisor!

Mobile swiping messages leads to lots of crappy auto corrects. Possibly fat fingers, possibly lazy approximate swiping.

Just go to your outbox and edit post. But if you edit it before the person reads it and finish/send the revision after the person opens it, they will never see your revision cause it gets lost in the in-between... Existing in your outbox forever as the original sits read in their inbox.

Btw sdjohn just pointed out this bug extends beyond editing pms but is in fact preventing new pms from being sent. The pm i discovered this bug on was sent prior to the styling changes that have affected this functionality.

Whelp. Looks like a bug.

I'm on it. Thanks for the tip.

This is fixed now. It was a one-line change.

All is well, for now. Thanks again for bringing it to my attention.

So there's no gear changer?

I like MMV, now I know I just need to turn the phone to see Replied

You all like the Replied shortcut that much?

This page looks great on my Pixel - thanks Jess!

Personally I use Replied then New if I'm just browsing the forum.

Just noticed we've been de-roundeled?

Only in mobile mode. It's the same on the iOS side -- a very minimal amount of author information. I'm contemplating something that lets you expand the author information on-demand -- just haven't quite decided how to implement it yet.

Okay, I've pushed a change that keeps the synthetic forum links around longer. It comes at the expense of pushing the Mark All Read button down occasionally (it depends on your exact screen size) but I've tried to keep as many of them as possible. Eventually, on very small screen sizes, you end up losing all but Favorites and Replied.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Jess, that's brilliant

I have just been browsing the forum for an hour, and it really is night and day! No more pinching 👍

Thanks! Works great on this (lemon) phone!

A bit before this this thread I was just going to comment that you've done something good with the mobile responsiveness of the MV - the overall user experience with an Android tablet (and phone) has improved a lot, many humble thanks for this!

I've not even noticed the bugs listed above, I've been just so thrilled browsing away with the nicely screen fitting display and all

Hadn't noticed prior to this that the diamond icon on the left of the thread title takes you to the latest post on thread. I always just clicked the page icon after the user name in the latest post column. But with the mobile version update, the latest post column was removed from display and i was missing that ability to jump to end of thread. Then i had a thought, wonder if i click this diamond icon.. lo and behold.. there's my desired functionality!

You are doing gods work and need a break!

Technically, it takes you to the first unread post in a topic -- or the last post, if all posts have been read. In that respect, it's quite a bit more useful than the "jump to latest post" on the right-hand side. You will be pleased to hear that yesterday evening I walked over to my friend Gary's house and had a beer with him and his wife -- first time since the pandemic started, and the first time I've not been constantly behind the computer screen for weeks.

It was pretty awesome.

I am! Okay, well, I am doing it for all the long-time MV members who have suffered with an outdated website for literally years on end, yet still come here and post and interact regularly. And that certainly includes you. The landscape has changed a lot since MV started in 2005. Back then, surfing the web on phones was almost unheard of, and was certainly not a very satisfactory experience. ALL surfing was on a laptop or desktop computer.

MV has been somewhat slow to adapt to the changing landscape. Hopefully I'm starting to catch up. Same. I have perfect vision at arms length (so, roughly where a desktop computer screen is) but it gets a little worse closer than that, and a lot worse farther than that. MV was a bit hard to read, even with proper layout. In conjunction with the new mobile layout changes, I've also bumped up the font size a tiny bit for post text. And on desktop, when the screen size is especially wide, I've bumped it up a little bit more. Thank you. And thanks for your participation here. It makes a difference.

So what is "MVFR", anyways? Modern Vespa Forum Refresh, or something along those lines?

Modern Vespa Forum Related. In keeping with other prefixes like NSR (Not Scooter Related), NMVR (Not Modern Vespa Related), etc.

MVF is always a designator for the forum itself, whereas MV can be Modern Vespa (the site) or modern Vespa (the type of scooter).

Whew, Jess, you HAVE been giving this a lot of attention. It's been a wild few weeks here with all the changes and tweaking. I do appreciate the energy you've been putting in to keep this place as functional as possible, even if I don't use/notice some of the features.

Maybe more regular trips to your friend's house might be a good thing...