Modern Vespa

Hi I'm a new member here and owner of a new 2020 sei giorni. Ive owned a handful of other scooters but this is my first vespa. I also currently own a Lance 200 cali classic.
Ive got 600 miles on the sei giorni and just completed its first service. Absolutely love it but I would like to have the speed limiter moved up to a true 85mph like the aftermarket kubler speed ring on the rear wheel allows it to on the other 300 models, but the website I was going to order it from says it will not work on the sei giorni because it does not have asr. Is this true? Have any other sei giorni owners installed it? If so, is there another way to trick the speedo to read accurate so I can gain my 85 mph top speed?
Any information is greatly appreciated and I look forward to posting here. Thanks!

Hi Longshot. Welcome to MV!
I'm sorry I can't answer your question but someone will be along soon who can. In the meantime, post a few pics of your scooter(s). We love pics around here.

Hi guzzi gal! Assuming you ride guzzis, I also have a guzzi (mgx21).
I'm actually enroute right now to the small bore rally in the smokies so I'm just passing the time (riding with some friends trailering our small bikes, will be riding a Honda monkey at the rally), so the only pictures on my phone at the moment is a picture in the garage right after getting it home and a more recent after changing a couple things.
I bought it with the rear top box and rack dealer installed. I took the top box off except for rides I actually need it. Ive installed the 2up seat from scooterwest and removed the reflectors and installed the color matched plugs in the holes.

And here is a picture of my guzzi

And since I'm bored on this 8 hour trip here's another one of me at the tail of the dragon on my bmw c650gt scooter I recently sold. I really regret selling it. I loved that thing

Looks great!
Welcome to Modern Vespa!

SIP's site says *it is* compat with the sel giorni

and I can't for the life of me think why it wouldn't be?

Welcome from The Salt Lake Valley in Utah. Wow, beautiful bikes!
Let me know when you come up with an answer to your questions.

Thanks guys!
I just looked up the tone ring on sips site and indeed it doesn't say anything about not working with the sei giorni or gtv vespas....but what has me confused is how come on scooterwest's website it specifically says it wont (I will cut and paste);

Get 8% more speed out of your new 2020 HPE GTS Engine. (This is for HPE models only, but NOT GTV Sei Giorni)

THIS WILL NOT WORK ON 2019 AND OLDER AND ALL YEARS OF GTV SEI GIORNI, YOU CAN INSTALL IT, BUT IT WON'T IMPROVE YOUR TOP SPEED SINCE THE GTV DOES NOT HAVE ASR. 

I figured with them being a vespa dealer and having so many tutorial videos on YouTube they probably know what their talking about. So I'm hoping maybe somebody has actually installed one and can confirm. I used the search function and came across a member who said they bought one for their sei giorni but hadn't installed it.

Me too! I'll keep the K1600GT Sport for a while but see a C650GT in my future. It really was a fun ride.

I bought mine new and only had about 8000 miles on it when I sold it and I only sold it because I really want a new goldwing dct, so I needed to generate some funds because those goldwings are so dang expensive...unfortunately bmw doesn't bring the c650gt to the states anymore so I can't buy another unless I buy used

just a gnats more to get some sparks off that stand

love that 2nd pic of the GTV. The back rack looks better clipped into the down position IMO (I did used to lose the black plastic clip now and again on my GTS though!)

Maybe this is referring to the older GTV models that are not HPE. When scooterwest wrote "all years of gtv" maybe the current gtv which is hpe hadn't yet been released.

Hmmm

Great looking Sei Giorni. I just got one myself. Loving it!

an owner of a 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni in another thread: https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2430520#2430520


makes me wonder: have you hit the existing limit in the ecu? or just that you need more power or a tail wind or a downhill or 13inch wheels or maybe even change parts of the transmission such as belt,rollers,final gears, etc ...

Plus my understanding is the ECU has two limits and will hold you back when *either* is reached; a mph/kmh limit (calc'd based on rear wheel) and a rpm limit. the kubler won't help with a rpm limiter in the ecu


Personally I'm not interested in the kubler ring as the limit is fast enough for me. I don't want to die today
I have reached the ecu limit just to test it out and have gone over it on a downhill, but this is not what I normally want to do.
Having a correct speedo would be nice but since the odometer is apparently then wrong - I won't bother.

Whereas more power to accelerate faster ... that would be nice.

Thanks! I actually just took it off and put the stock bar back since its only 4 bolts and I can quickly swap out if I want the top box.
The bmw had decent clearance for the twistys, for me at least. I usually try not to be too lazy and hang off of it

Well bummer. Looks like I would have to manipulate the rev input to the ecm or change out rollers or maybe bigger back tire.
I dont want to fool with my warranty so I may look into a 13" wheel. Im in no hurry, got lots of reading and research to do I guess. Thanks for all the help guys! And I'm certainly open to any additional input on the matter

It's been awhile since I've posted. Just bumping the thread to see if any new information out there. Loving my vespa but sure wish I could hit its true capable top speed with as something as simple as the abs ring

I put the Kubler ring on the 2019 GTS Super I rode in the cannonball. The 2019 doesn't have the mechanical review limiter of the HPE. What it did do was correct my speedo so that it was within 1 mph of what my GPS showed. I didn't notice any change in the odo reading though I only checked on once against milecmarkers.

The digital speedometers on these modern Vespas are usually pretty accurate and not at all like the earlier very inaccurate cable driven units on earlier bikes. Raising the HPE top speed using the Kubler is another thing but the speedos generally don't need any help for most folks. Even my 2016 GTS300ie abs/asr is only 2mph out at an indicated 80mph. My gps speed (which remember isn't entirely accurate either) showed 78mph over a 1 miles flat straight road. The bike held that speed no problem and was close to flat out. My bike will show 83mph on the clock which is a gps 81mph. The rev limiter will kick in at an indicated 83mph on my model. Vespa claim a top speed of 76mph for my scoot. At 30mph the speedo was spot on, at 50 miles per hours it was also spot on. I would add that I had just fitted a new belt and rollers and the back tyre was new with just 120 miles on it at the time. Personally, I don't think the Kubler is worth it and technically it does invalidate your warranty. But, if it's your thing then it's what you've got to have.

Don't forget there is no such thing as a completely accurate speedo. It may be you get a completely accurate reading one moment but later in the journey or next month it isn't accurate. Over time the speed it tells you alters in it's accuracy because everything such as the tyres wear, the tyre pressures and temperatures change considerably as you ride, rollers and belts wear, so it's never going to be entirely accurate very often or for long. But it shouldn't vary by very much. Another one of the biggest influencers of how accurate the speedo it is down to how much weight you put on the bike. If you are a big person your speedo won't be as accurate, yet the same bike with a smaller person on it will show a more accurate speed. That's why some say they get a bad speedo reading and others say it's very accurate. And all this assumes you use the factory recommended tyre pressures. We know from this forum many folks don't so that's yet another factor. Remember too that even if you fit the Kubler ring your bike's speedo will still suffer the same variances in accuracy because everything still wears just the same and all the other variances will still happen. However, if you are doing the ring thing for increase in speed, you may or may not get a slight increase. Some do, some don't from what we read on here.

The speedo on my Supertech is consistently around 8% above GPS

The inaccuracy wasn't due to it being cable driven. There's no reason a cable-driven mechanism with proper gear ratios can't be accurate. Or, at least, more accurate than Vespa speedometers are. Assuming a good view of the sky, GPS speed readings are generally accurate to within about 1mph. GPS speed is calculated not by the distance to travel between two points, but rather by observing the doppler shift in one of the carrier frequencies of the incoming satellite signal. This produces a fairly accurate result, independent of the positional inaccuracies of GPS.

Yes indeed jess. But the terrain, road topography, altitude etc can affect readings by even more than 1mph. The largest gps error we recorded was a 12% shift during normal testing of one of our engines. Yes, quite amazing and it had all the satellites showing too. It was down to the terrain, mostly trees and the fact we were going down a long winding road for several miles. If you live somewhere pretty flat it's usually ok and won't vary much. Readings can be quite accurate. Most gps will try to correct for this sort of thing and is a lot better now than when we discovered the 12% error (which by the way was very common a few years back). But as many tests have shown gps still falls over sometimes with quite big errors in some terrains which is why car and bike manufacturers are not allowed to fit gps driven speedos as the only speed measuring device. They simply can't be relied upon.

During engine development testing at the track we used a variety of methods to calibrate bike speedos as these had to be very accurate and everything was recorded via a computer. The bikes spent large amounts of time on the track and then the rest of the day either in the workshop or the road. It was normal for bikes to cover between 400-800 miles in a day and so to have a very accurate speedo you must calibrate it everyday to take into account tyre wear, temperature, barometric pressure, weight of the rider etc. When we changed a rider if their weight differed by more than 3-4lbs we had to recalibrate. It could make that much of a difference for the purposes of our testing program.

Analogue speedos driven by cables are far less accurate due to lots of factors but as you say if it's a quality unit it can be pretty good. But that doesn't seem to have been the case with Vespas. Never found a cable driven Vespa yet that hasn't been quite a way out, but I expect there are exceptions.