Modern Vespa

I just finished a 2,500 mile trip, sadly cut short due to continuing rain and flashfloods in Mississippi. Despite the wet it was a great trip.

Riding around, I day dreamed of owning my first brand new Vespa ever. A 2021 GTS 300 HPE setting on the showroom floor at Vespa Clearwater. When I got home I spent a couple of hours getting my 2016 GTS with 25,000 miles nice and shiny because, also for the first time, I was just going to trade it for the new one.

But then I watched Robot,s 6K service on the 2021 HPE. WHAT THE F#$%k!! First they added plastic crap to take off to get to the variatior. Then the belt change is reduced from 9,000 miles to 6,000 miles. But the craziest thing of all is they say you have to adjust the valves every 6,000 miles. This involves jacking up the scooter and disconnecting the shocks to drop to motor to accomplish this task that on any other GTS engine is only done every 20,000 miles.

I have owned numerous Vespa's and I love them. But, I ain't buying off on this new Italian fiasco. I don't need to love them that much when for a lot less money I can buy Yamaha or other Piaggo product that has a much more sensible maintenance schedule.

Thanks to Robot for keeping me from another mistake in my life. I will always have a Vespa in the garage, but it looks like finally, in my old age, I would like dependability and ease of maintenance than style.

SW Is the bomb! A huge fan here for 10 years. I don't see their banner anymore. They're still sponsors, aren't they?

It's worth having a read of this post about the pros and cons of the new HPE....

New HPE vs late model used GTS300

Any chance you could still pick up a new pre-HPE model?

Wow!

Seems like they are rushing design ahead with little thought to serviceability. It's odd to me to go this direction from simple and easy to complex. If they are pushing the limits of their engine/drivetrain platform to the point that the belts and valves need attention every 6K miles someone is getting ahead of themselves.

Why not a chassis redesign so that removable covers can make valve adjustments easier?

Even at Ferrari where for years the models had the need to take out the engine for service came around eventually and began making the cars more serviceable in the late 90's...

I have 2 300's, a 250 (my favorite) and a 150.

Exactly

The more I look into the new ones the more I like my 07 GTS.

Guess I'll keep it until its truly worn out and then find some old simple two stroke to play with.


And there's always that 66 Honda in the garage... talk about simple!

Oh, I thought you wanted to buy a brand new bike, as opposed to an HPE specifically. If it was the novelty of a new bike you wanted, I thought maybe your dealer would still have a prior year model on hand. Pre-HPE to get around your maintenance reservations, but still get that brand new bike smell... best of both worlds?!

You have to consider the impact of the competition building scooters at a faster pace and with more and more new models, the Vespa is a very special model with certain limitations.
The HPE engine is at the design limits due to the Euro regulations, at the next regulatory increase we will perhaps see a new engine.
There are rumors about an engine derived from the BV project and in any case above 30 hp and with 300 cc you cannot go up, Honda and Yamaha indicate it to us(although Honda with the 350 SH and Forza did so they weren't bound by the frame).
The 300 HPE is derived from the first 300 (271) and from the 250 which was derived from the 200, you cannot stretch an elastic beyond a certain limit ...
Why hasn't Piaggio "yet" built a new engine for the Vespa?
Possible answers:
the advancement of electric vehicles
slowdown in the scooter market
anti-pollution regulations increasingly difficult to reach
Does a new engine enter the modern Vespa frame? Yes, but the investment to build it is and will be high and it will take a long time.
...in the meantime the maintenance intervals are shortened ... "when the mountain does not go to Muhammad, Muhammad goes to the mountain" says the saying.
The same thing is happening with cars.

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Thanks to Robot for keeping me from another mistake in my life. I will always have a Vespa in the garage, but it looks like finally, in my old age, I would like dependability and ease of maintenance than style.

Wish I had not presumed the HPEs would be an improvement and sadly regret not buying a good used non-HPE. Shame on Vespa

Nothing is definitive, everything is constantly changing.

so your saying my 07 GTS has gained in value because of the high maintenance on new ones. AWESOME.

I am convinced that innovations are not always necessarily good for those who have them ...
The return to a retro style brings with it, albeit with modern technologies, also an improved technology but also an old one as a concept of utility.
Technological exasperation is just another way to convince the consumer to buy the latest model without explaining why this is necessary, what can't you do with 20hp of power that another 5hp more can give you? Faster than 5mph? And is the added cost of increased maintenance worth the expense?
The vehicle must "serve us" and not make us slaves of it ... in the end we will hate it and in return we will have stress and dissatisfaction.
But ... there are those who like to have the latest model for aesthetic reasons and as for the dog you also get fleas with it and there is little to do, you adapt.

I feel compelled to add my 2 cents worth here. I love the look and ride of my Primavera, but maintenance seems needlessly difficult. A few examples:
-The muffler needs to be removed for rear wheel removal, but rather than making this in two pieces so the header stays fixed, you have to undo the flange at the cylinder head which has one of the most inaccessible bolts ever.
-The air filter screws are nearly impossible to reach, I had to unbolt the shock and raise and lower the body to get my fingers in there.
-The cylinder head cover is likewise a bit of a Rubik's cube effort to extract for valve mainenance.
-Oil and filter access is complicated by the exhaust placement, and refilling requires some special tools.

Or maybe, I'm just mean to extract the engine from the bodyshell for all of these steps...

Robot (Jeff) is indeed one cool dude. Helpful, friendly, nice, and knowledgeable as hell.

Long live Robot.

I'm very happy i upgraded from a GTS to a Supertech. Soooo much more power, the numbers might not look that much larger but the certainly feel it

My HPE is not my primary mode of transportation, so I don't put the high mileage on it that some of you do. I ride it for the pure joy of riding. Right now I am on track to do about 4500 miles this first year. That could go up or down. I might not ever get to 12000/18000 miles, but right now I am looking forward to performing the 6000 mile service in accordance with Robot's video. I have watched it several times. For me, carefully taking her apart and caring for her needs is almost as much fun as riding her. Her name is Vera, and I care for her as if she is a part of the family. Yes I will spend money on her maintenance the same way I spent on my children as they were growing up. I consider it part of the entertainment she provides me. According to Robot, the HPE is a great, super reliable engine, and that's endorsement enough for me.

Part of the fun of owning a scooter is the tinkering and maintaining of them.

I feared doing my own service on every vehicle when I first got it. But with older cars and a Hayes manual I got it done. I can do anything on a Zuma without a service manual from messing with them for so many years. Same with a Genuine Buddy 125. I also don't fear any services on my Liberty thanks to Robot. We need to order this shop pizzas or something! And what Italian sports car or motorcycle doesn't require a bit more effort to service? Vespa just followed the trend with the GTS HPE series!

Lostboater -- suggest you consider a survey (perhaps right on this forum) of owners of HPE vespas that upgraded before you conclude that it would be a mistake to get one. I am not sure what the results will be but I am very happy with my HPE (after about 2500 miles). However, I upgraded from another brand and have no prior Vespa experience. The HPE has given me zero problems. The engine is smooth, strong and quiet ( a bit of vibration when idling). IMO The led lights are quite good. I read many reviews before my purchase and they were all positive. If I recall correctly the drive train had some changes as well and reviewers said it was a noticeable improvement. I believe the changes in the maintenance schedule while significant are still minor -- also does not the old schedule have some maintenance every 3000 mi instead of a (bigger) one for the hpe every 6000?

Note the reply from steelbytes above -- he appears to be the only one to reply that actually has owned a 250/ 300 prior to his hpe (and is quite positive).

Bobke

My 2012 GTV calls for a new belt every 9,300 miles and a valve adjustment every 12,400 miles. Those are the biggies, though I have to say I'm not fond of changing the coolant or the brake fluid, but I do it every couple of years or so.

I did check my valves at 12,400, and they had not gone out of adjustment. At least by my somewhat intermediate mechanic level use of the feeler gauge. (I used to have a '65 VW bus whose valves I checked often - the bus engine was much easier to work on than the Vespa engine. No tilting required.)

I totally agree! I owe robot for sure for helping me get up to speed with my Vespa and showing me how to work on it!

Pbcoole -- I Before I saw your post I came across an older 300 manual online and found exactly what you reported above. There is no real maintenance at 3000 miles for older 300 engine. The manual I found just says to inspect and clean adjust a few things ( not valves) as needed.
It appears the significant difference is hpe belt replace every 6000 mi versus 9000 for previous 300 models and valve adjust every 6000 miles versus 12000. (I think someone mentioned above 20000 for the valve adjust but that is kilometers.)
I also had some fun way back doing valve adjust -- needed 3 hands -- I did the first service on my hpe but probably have dealer do the belt and valves when due.

Bobke

I recently had the belt and rollers replaced in my Supertech at around 12000km. The rollers had flat spots but the belt looked pretty good. After the replacement it did feel weird for the first 100km or so - revving different than i had become used to - that settled and now feels way better than it did, as good as brand new.

Ps, I'm a hard rider who does lots of touring and generally thrashes it hard

Do you posses the correct tool for this work?

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/motion-pro-tappet-adjuster-tool

Kevin -- I was using the right tools at the time but I was doing American V8 hotrod/dragster engines -- really easy access but I was always triple checking and readjusting to get it exactly right -- haven't worked on engines much since then -- 40- 50 years ago.

That is a nice looking tool but I will likely have dealer do the valves.

Bobke

To be honest I know scooters with shorter maintenance times, on Yamaha 125/155 Blue Core engines it must be done every year or every 2485 miles (4000 km) just to change the oil and clean the filter. In any case, the checks and replacements are spaced out by 2485 miles.

There's really no need to be afraid of the HPE service times and intervals. In fact, it's really a good service schedule as it means the belt and roller change happening together reduces wear on both the clutch input shaft threads and crankshaft/variator threads by 50% over the life of the bike. Since in particular worn crankshaft threads can be a reason to end the life of an older GT/GTS bike, this has to be good and will no doubt result in more GTS bikes reaching very high mileages before needing a strip down for crank replacement, or alternatively having a second hand engine fitted or being scrapped. Doing the belt and roller service together at the same time also saves time and money ie: doing the rollers at 6250 miles and then again stripping down at 9000 miles for the belt to be replaced as per the older model GTS bikes. Little bit crazy in my book as you pay twice for pretty much the same labour to be done unless you do it yourself.

Those of us who ride our bikes fairly hard and far change out our belts earlier anyway. Again, many of us check and if required service our valve clearances early too. If you ride the highways quite fast regularly this is a good thing to do as valve clearance can close down quite quickly at motorway speeds over time.

I know we all like to moan about difficulty in servicing our steeds, but frankly, the GT/GTS range of bikes has to be one of the easiest on the market to look after. There is nothing difficult or daunting about doing almost anything the bike needs to have done once you have studied up on it and have the right tools.

If you want difficult you should try servicing some of the bigger bikes like my Vstrom or GSX1400, or some of the other Japanese or Triumph bikes. Loads of stuff to take off before you can even get to the engines and it can take hours. A good example was my Vstrom 1000GT (has the full luggage). To adjust the valve clearances you have to remove the luggage, remove the rear rack and crash bars, remove the front crash bars, remove the seat, remove the front fairing, remove the tank side fairings, remove the petrol tank, disconnect the fuel supply, remove the tank. That's the first hour gone! Next it's engine stuff which includes taking out the inlet and exhaust camshafts to remove and replace shims if the clearances are incorrect (often they were). That's another hour gone just to do that. Whiles in there it's best to change the spark plugs as you can get to them at that time...etc etc etc! Our Vespas are super easy by comparison! Trust me on that. I've serviced just about all the bikes on the British market at one time or another.

HPE = Good! All GTS bikes = Good! HPE a progression but as yet some don't realise that.