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Lucky
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UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
Thank you for translating this from 17th century windbag English.
I thought that was the Gospel of SDJohn...totally different thing Razz emoticon
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Thank you for all the help and suggestions!!

I am amazed, I might be able to do a decent job here. Keep working until it is, at least.

I think I'll keep the bridge part in one piece, bc it's all there in position.

If I trim it right, should snap right in place. Hoping the corners at the top line up, though.
The legshield/floorboard needs some reshaping.

I thought it looked a little strange. It was made with a mold that has a crease, but also just tack welded. So I have to fix the curvature a bit. Also add the reinforcement plate.

But looks like it's possible.

Those things are 1000x better than fabricating, but not factory replacements for sure. Needs lots of tweaking.
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Molto Verboso
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This is so much work!

I spent hours shaping this thing.

I hope it works. It seems close.
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UTC quote
Looks like a great fit. I assume you are doing a seam across the top. Looks like you got that seam nice and flush.

It does end up being a lot of work to get a good fit. Nice work!
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
if you made that you are a badass
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Not So Moderator
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wow.
That's impressive man
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I didn't make it. It's one of these type things. I just (hopefully?) cut it so it fits.

I realized those go up pretty high, so you can get the seam inside a place in the frame you can reach.

I think I can probably get it to line up! I have those panel clamps and magnets.

Probably best to drill out the places for the cowl mounts and cables first.

This is definitely the hardest part of this!

That seam at the top is so important. It's what holds all the strength of the frame and rear section together
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Hooked
Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
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UTC quote
Impressive job. Good fun seeing your progress..

Looking around SIP there now seems to be enough repro panels now to do legshields, sidepanels, mudguards, horncast and the whole rear of a Rally. Only panels not remade now seems to be the tunnel and steering tubes.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I even found a tunnel!

But strangely, not the square tail section. Which is always damaged.

It's a lot of work to repair these, though.

I really hope I can get this right. This one, the corners at the top only line up perfect ( I think?) when the bottom part is angled up. I think I can get it. But I hope I didn't cut too much. Worst case, I might need to try this again.

The part was inexpensive, but shipping a lot from Germany!
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UTC quote
If you can get the corners of that piece lined up and welded, then tap/push the edges of the seam down, or pry up to line up the edges as you put some tacks across the top and bottom joint.

The heat from welding will give you some shrink along the edge which might end up being helpful if it looks like there is excess material. Tapping down when still hot from welding will give you even more shrink, which is good for flattening the seam against the tunnel metal in the lower seam.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense.
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The Dude
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
I even found a tunnel!
Where did you find the tunnel section? I need that! Or atleast - a piece of that, to repair an ameribodge Rally frame. Or for anyone else reading - who wants to chop out a piece of tunnel from your scrap frame for me? I'll make it worth your efforts
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
GeekLion wrote:
Where did you find the tunnel section? I need that! Or atleast - a piece of that, to repair an ameribodge Rally frame. Or for anyone else reading - who wants to chop out a piece of tunnel from your scrap frame for me? I'll make it worth your efforts
For some reason, it's not on SIP or Scooter Center, but some others. And a few variations.

Seems like there's a real market in Italy for restorations, and they tend to be very focused on original detail – paint color, etc.

PX, but same aside from the pedal and lock
https://www.ebay.it/itm/174502717997

Same one
https://www.petralitoservice.it/gb/componenti-montaggio-carrozzeria/5152-telaio-tunnel-lamierato-centrale-piaggio-vespa-px-pe-lml-9187953869449.html

Top part:
https://www.subito.it/accessori-moto/lamierato-tunnel-centrale-parte-superiore-vespa-px-napoli-423663073.htm
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Argh. I think I messed this up.

When I trimmed the bridge piece, I didn't clamp it down, so it was sitting up a little bit.

When I clamp it down, the top seam is now very wide.

I might be able to adjust how it sits, or might have to replace.

Shame. To replace it, would take a week or two from Germany.

Is this workable? I think probably not. I would need to add a thin strip of metal there, I think.
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UTC quote
Clamp it all tight and tack it where I put the arrows on both sides making sure it all in the same plane. You could either back the top seam up with copper, put a strip in or a bit of both. Do the grind as you go thing.
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UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
Clamp it all tight and tack it where I put the arrows on both sides making sure it all in the same plane. You could either back the top seam up with copper, put a strip in or a bit of both. Do the grind as you go thing.
Thanks! I'll try that! I'll try to work with it this week, since I have it. Do the holes for the cowls and cables before trying to install, too.

If I mess it up, I guess just a week to wait for a new one. I should probably have gotten a spare.

This one is a real challenge, bc it can't line up until it's cut to fit, and there are so many angles and curves.

The way the panel is stamped, it matched the curve of the frame perfectly sitting up like it was, and it seems a little off sitting down. But those clamps help a lot.

I just want to be as clean and strong as possible, bc this is such a critical weight-bearing part.
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UTC quote
You could also weld a thicker strip of metal behind the seam. At the top from corner to corner.

Tack it on the scooter Then tack the patch to the strip.

This is exactly how this kind of thing goes.

The new patch will end up in your parts stash for years.

But it will make you feel better about giving the one you got a shot knowing that a new one is in the mail. Ask me how I know.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
"If I were you" I'd bail out, and wait for another panel.
Royal PIA to make that gap look good.
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UTC quote
Nightmare!!

ok. Let me think.

I'm sure it's better to just replace it. I wish this was something US shops carried.

But might try. I'll measure the seam, too.

This sucks!! But I guess all part of it.
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UTC quote
GeekLion wrote:
Where did you find the tunnel section? I need that! Or atleast - a piece of that, to repair an ameribodge Rally frame. Or for anyone else reading - who wants to chop out a piece of tunnel from your scrap frame for me? I'll make it worth your efforts
how much of a frame? shoot me a pic...
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UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
Clamp it all tight and tack it where I put the arrows on both sides making sure it all in the same plane. You could either back the top seam up with copper, put a strip in or a bit of both. Do the grind as you go thing.
I like this option. because only the "bottom" seam is the one you see-- ie. the one that matters. up top you can hide a multitude of sin with a backer strip and fill weld. grind it smoove, throw some skim on and ship it.
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UTC quote
greasy125 wrote:
how much of a frame? shoot me a pic...
Need the part shown below in red, but need it for both sides. The left side is worse ;0 typical front end collision damage. I'm hoping to fix this US Rally frame for a friend in Deutschland.
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
Nightmare!!

ok. Let me think.

I'm sure it's better to just replace it. I wish this was something US shops carried.

But might try. I'll measure the seam, too.

This sucks!! But I guess all part of it.
It is all part of the process, dont be discouraged. Mistakes happen, and sometimes things dont work out as planned. Roll with it!! IMO as other said above:

Option A: Use a backer copper or other, weld/fill/grind as you go. Move slow.
If that doesn't work - chop it all out and go -

Option B: wait for a new patch panel, and be careful with trimming to fit the frame you have already cut. Gotta flex those patience muscles.
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
GeekLion wrote:
Gotta flex those patience muscles.
I hear taking some B-Flexible helps with this. Razz emoticon

Hang in there man. You are doing a FANTASTIC job. Just a little setback. You got this!!!
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UTC quote
GeekLion wrote:
Need the part shown below in red, but need it for both sides. The left side is worse ;0 typical front end collision damage. I'm hoping to fix this US Rally frame for a friend in Deutschland.
how much of a rally do you want to buy?

(laughs)

all kidding aside, DS made off with that portion for his SS build but I'll hunt around for some scraps. too bad a P frame can't be sacrificed... I'd have you in spades!
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UTC quote
greasy125 wrote:
how much of a rally do you want to buy?

(laughs)

all kidding aside, DS made off with that portion for his SS build but I'll hunt around for some scraps. too bad a P frame can't be sacrificed... I'd have you in spades!
How much of a Rally do you have?....
I wish P tunnel would fit... wonder if it would? I can figure you the brake pedal portion if it would. I'll have to compare frames in my stable
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UTC quote
GeekLion wrote:
How much of a Rally do you have?....
I wish P tunnel would fit... wonder if it would? I can figure you the brake pedal portion if it would. I'll have to compare frames in my stable
PM or txt me so we don't clutter up the awesome work here in the thread, but to answer: all of a rally and most of a P
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
By the time the new part was on the shipping dock I'd have done what was suggested and have that filled in and ground down. Seam seal on the inside and a skim on top and it would be just fine. Mock it up and practice.

I wouldn't worry about the strength of that top seam. I think it is mostly the side panels that give the structure rigidity . Filling the seam would bond the two sections and would be plenty strong.

Another course would be to tack the sides and the bottom in place then cut out the seam and fill it in with a 1/2" strip and have two weld seams instead of one which might be cleaner.

You could also back up the top edge of the piece with copper and build and re-profile it to fit. Like 3D printing with steel but with grinding.... Just watch the heat distortion.

I would also kerf the apexes of the spines as far as needed so I could massage them a bit to fit after the flats were right. I go through a lot of Dremel EZ Lock discs. It looks like you'd have room to dolly the back of the uppers.
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UTC quote
Also, when building up on copper, I find it best to turn the welder down to "A" and run small beads on top of each other. You don't want to blow it apart with a lot of penetration.
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UTC quote
I don't know how much of a stickler you are, but another thing they got wrong on this patch is the leading edge on the sides should be more of a straight line up to the curve.
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UTC quote
^
Correct! It's because they copied the P series shape…
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Lucky
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Lucky
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
^
Correct! It's because they copied the P series shape…
If that's the case, then maybe a chunk of P tunnel will work for the crash damage, too?
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
^
Correct! It's because they copied the P series shape…
Which is actually a good thing because it is easier to trim it straight than add the curve.

I'll add a few of my tenets :
Never let an inanimate object get the best of you.
Don't be afraid to manipulate materials.
It's not fucked until you walk away from it.
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Moto64 wrote:
Which is actually a good thing because it is easier to trim it straight than add the curve.

I'll add a few of my tenets :
Never let an inanimate object get the best of you.
Don't be afraid to manipulate materials.
It's not fucked until you walk away from it.
I love this advice!

ok! I'm going to order another one. SIP says it takes four days, which probably means at least two weeks.

But will work with this one. Another tricky part is getting the holes right, which I should probably do before it's installed.

I thought the curve seemed wrong! I can fix that on the belt sander.

This one also has a defect where the bottom seam one one side is not wide enough.

It's nice the these are cut so you can get behind them. A little bit. They go up just above the tunnel, so those clamps fit in there.

This is all so new! I know all the parts to rebuild a Vespa, but this is like reconstructing one!
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UTC quote
Repositioning and clamping. Maybe this gap isn't too much.

This is definitely going to need some work. The stamped piece doesn't match the curves exactly. I think even if it's cut perfect, it's not a perfect match.

But definitely agree. The top seam is the easiest to work, if the other parts line up.
It's not SO so bad?
It's not SO so bad?
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With this, should I just cut out the bad parts?
With this, should I just cut out the bad parts?
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UTC quote
I think I see what's going on but it's hard to tell from photos.

The curved bends are tighter on the patch than the frame so when you line up the the straight part of the seam the corners are not in the same plane.

You could try opening up the bends a little at the top and see if the fit is better.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I think so?

I think the patch is a bit more square in the corners.

But it's weird. It it seems better or worse depending on how it's positioned.

This was made from some kind of press mold. With the bottom angled up, the seams match.

Mysterious multiple vectors.
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UTC quote
There's a 4 piece kit which I think it'll be easier to shape how you want it. I once bought the one you have now and returned it cause it was a bitch to fit (made my own patch pieces)...

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/repair-sheet-tunnel-complete_PV153440
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
There's a 4 piece kit which I think it'll be easier to shape how you want it. I once bought the one you have now and returned it cause it was a bitch to fit (made my own patch pieces)...

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/repair-sheet-tunnel-complete_PV153440
That one doesn't have the rounded corners, unfortunately.

Definitely easier to work with. I cut out the corners bc there was so much rust.
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Posts: 3094
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3094
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
There is a limit to how well you can get a complex part to line up with dry fitting alone. Once you get some solid tacks down, it stops flopping around and you can pry, tap and bend it into submission. It's pretty normal to have to improvise. You could give it a try and if it's going to shit, you can just cut your tacks and take it out.

I still find myself exactly where you are now with my welding.
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
My forever project.

I'm going to try to make this work. I got it all there, except the seam, but I'm hoping I can work with it. Since the replacement parts don't seem to be identical, I think it will always need some work.

I'm not sure how to treat the metal. The shop suggested metal prep, which is similar to Ospho. Might try that.

There are a lot of welds, and paint would just fry.
The drive to the shop is always so nice.
The drive to the shop is always so nice.
Sunset over the Golden Gate Bridge
Sunset over the Golden Gate Bridge
Back to this thing
Back to this thing
Straightened out the curve on the edge. Does this look close?
Straightened out the curve on the edge. Does this look close?
This took forever.
This took forever.
Got the holes lines up for various things. I will widen them once it's attached.
Got the holes lines up for various things. I will widen them once it's attached.
Big seam. But I'm hoping I can fill it?
Big seam. But I'm hoping I can fill it?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
This view looks huge, though.
This view looks huge, though.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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