Modern Vespa

Thanks for the photos! So helpful to see an immaculate original bike.

Bar Italia just has the repro ones, that they say are very close. And I trust them, but I'd rather keep the originals.

I think it might be anodized. It's a very light coating, but is uniform. It's not as reflective as chrome.

I think I can probably just polish them, so they're uniform, then paint the black and use a clear coat, so the aluminum doesn't oxidize?

not sure what the process is or who does it but..

Silver Bright Dipped

also: https://www.alutiletrim.com/bright-dipping-anodizing-the-secret-for-shiny-aluminum-tile-trim/

and: https://aerospacemetalsllc.com/what-is-bright-dip-anodizing/

or: https://www.wrisco.com/bright-clear-anodized-aluminum/

Thank you! This is it!

I'll see if I can mail to one of these two vendors.

Let me get a couple of pictures of a badge I have before you order something.

Thanks, Dwight! The end is in sight with this one!

Wiring fun.

Ordering parts for my wiring harness, and curious. Does anyone know the wire gauges and connector sizes?

The thick wires look like they could be 12, 14, or 16. The thin ones 18, 20, or 22.

The connectors look easier. There are just a few sizes of those.

I use 14 or 16 for the main battery/fuse/key, 18 for most everything else.

I think I have two or 3 coils I'm not using since I gave up on the femsa. I still dream of going back, but like having a bike that runs more.

Thanks! It seemed like the 18 was most of them (I found this in another MV thread). I'll try 14 for the thick ones.

I have two other Femsa coils, but one other Femsa bike. So one spare for two bikes. This is the best looking one. Tbe other two are sun-bleached. This one has nice color, but very short lead wire.

Did you convert to Ducati?

On this one, I wanted to keep all original.

I went vespatronic in the end after trying everything else. Wired it all to be reversible and as non-obvious as it could be.

I tend to use a little thicker when replacing thin wires…just to make the harness a little sturdier. The nice thing about making your own harness is that you can crimp after pulling the wires through. I don't know if pre-made harnesses already have connectors on. Crimping is at least half the work. Crimping pliers are one of the best things I ever bought. My bus was full of the hardware store type and makes a lot of work when they fail. I recently redid all the bodged wiring in my bus to the point of using original factory colors and even marking stripes on wires to match the wiring diagram. It really helps. There are a lot of wires in the bus. Doing the same on the 200. I will probably end up replacing most of the wiring.

Love your project. When I started looking for a Vespa, I imagined doing the kind of work you did. Turns out none of my scooters need that much metal work.

That look so much like the original!

Were you having problems with the Femsa?

I hope mine works! I had Scooterwest rewire the stator, which used all the original coils, but they test them all.

The coil got a spark and the bike turned over when I got it, but I never tried running it. The tank was full of rust.

I'm hoping it all works when it's back together!

They come with the connectors. The hardest part with those is binding them in a way that all the connectors fit through the frame. Even on a P it's hard, and those have the open space at the brake pedal and horncast.

Thanks! This has been so much more work than I expected. But really enjoying it.

I somehow pictured the metal work part being a couple of days. But most of it was learning time.

Still happy I saved a bike in such bad shape. These are my favorite type projects.

Hammers and dollies.

One of my cowls was really damaged. It got laid down on that side.

I got all the dents out, but it's not perfect.

Is this enough to bondo? or should I get the shape perfect?

There are a couple of spots I would put filler, mostly just along the side under the crease, and maybe just skim coat but remove almost all of it.

This thing cleaned up.

It's so primitive. The electrics and some resin poured into what looks like a Jello mold.

Hopefully there's enough wire to patch that.

A 3d printer and building your own internals may not be all that complicated.

Wow. Much respect.

Looking good there. I would suggest that a small ball peen hammer is not really right tool for the job. I would at least soften its edges so you don't get any small., sharp dents. I would try to smooth those down. I'd get one of the cheapo body tool sets and soften the edges on the hammers and dollies. A great tool is a planishing hammer for really smoothing the surface.
Remember, you are not actually hammering anything but using a lot of small bumps to slowly push the high spots down and bring the low spots up. This is done by using the dolly under a low spot and tapping the high spot around it to 'pry' them even. Working from the outside of the damage in to the point of impact. The hammer is held lightly and should slightly bounce off the surface. No hard hits. The force transmitted by the hammer is equal to that of the dolly and you can watch the metal slowly change shape. The face of the hammer never really contacts the dolly unless you are trying to stretch the metal or at the very end to get the last little spots. This can pretty much all be done from the outside of the panel, moving the highs down and the lows up.
A dent will often have a raised area around it so just bumping the low spot up can result in a high area. A contrasting guide coat , which can just be a light dusting with a thin primer, will show up all sorts of things when sanded.
This is not a bad video of basic dent removal. The first part seems a little crude but effective. You can see him pulling the dent up in the second section. You can hear the ding when the hammer contacts the dolly and that's how you know where the dolly is :

Thank you!

I guess I need to watch some tutorials. The ball peen hammer made lots of dings. But I was trying to hit it flat against the dolly.

I have a hammer/dolly set, but they all have square edges, so the peen end fit better inside the curves. But the result was bad.

Is this fixable?

All this is such a learning curve

Yes, everything is fixable. Just remember that what you are actually doing is pushing or prying the metal in tiny increments. Taking a belt sander and slightly rounding or smoothing the edges of your hammers will help avoid the sharp dings and you should not be hitting the surface with such a localized impact any way.
Once you get the hang of it it is neat to watch the panel smooth out. I find it fun and very satisfying and if you spend enough time on it , a minimum of filler is needed to fair it out. Learning how to shrink the metal is a valuable technique as working the dents out can often stretch the surface beyond its original shape. Slapping is another technique. It's an art.
There are tons of videos on the process and its helpful to see it in action but this little book is a real gem and I strongly recommend it:
"The Key To Metal Bumping" by Frank T. Sargent ( 50 years ago) . $20 on Amazon or see if you can find a used one, which would be just fine.

I have a copy of it if you want to borrow it.

You're in the same city!

I pick the dents out from behind the panel with the sharp end of a body hammer. On something like a cowl or legshield I put my fingers on top of the panel to feel where I am hitting and and raise the the dents a bit higher than the surrounding metal. Then I put a dolly behind the panel and the panel and smooth it all out with a hammer or slapping spoon, the slapping or hammering isn't hard… more of like a brushing motion. It's hard to describe.

Clean up blast on the frame. Looks good!

That lefthand cowl is a long way from ready for skimming, IMO. You should almost not be able to see where the dents were on a flat surface like that. And if you can hear the "tink" of the hammer on the dolly, that's stretching the metal, which means it'll never really be right again unless you shrink it, which I've never tried.

I did a lot of hammer and dolly work on my GL, including posting videos, and that was my first experience with it. Letting the hammer just kind've bounce on the surface over and over would make an amazing difference over time. It's a cumulative improvement once you get past the initial "whack the energy back out of it" stage of repairing a dent.

Yes. It needs a lot more work.

There was a really bad dent along the top of the flat part, where it was all pushed in.

I definitely was hitting it too hard.

Define "really bad dent..."

(which is to say, "You can do it!")

It's hard to explain metal work. It is totally a hands on learning experience. Stretching metal metal on dolly takes a hard ringing blow depending on the thickness of the metal. All the shrinking I've done on the Vespa is cold shrinking. You are hammering the metal back into itself. You can heat shrink with a blow torch. You don't have to get it crazy hot. It's magical. After you heat a spot, the metal gets wobbly. Then you lightly hammer it down with a block of wood behind it. I'm not sure if your panel requires heat shrinking.

That'll all hammer out just fine if you get a minimally decent set of hammer and dollies. Eastwood has a set for about $75 that I picked because every "getting started with bodywork" video I watched said that was the one to start with. The hammers just have a different feel when you get them working. As Orwell said, it's hard to explain, but you feel like you're barely tapping the metal, and yet you can watch it returning to where you want it.

Also, the dolly should be offset from the dent and where you're hammering. The metal-on-metal tink is generally a Bad Sound for this kind of work.

Ah. Those are definitely more dents, but similar to the second one. There were deep scrapes.

Definitely get a set of starter tools. You don't need much. Don't get harbor freight. Eastwood should be fine. Make sure it includes a spoon. It's like a small slapper. I have a big Martin slapping spoon but it's too much for a Vespa. Better for the crumpled hood of an old Buick. A ball peen hammer is great for banging out a dented trash can. You will notice the difference with actual body hammers. The weight and balance is just different. You've done admirably just getting it where it is right now. You just have to dive in. You can't really fuck it up permanently. You will under do it, then overdue it. It's part of the learning.

The blue one was my now-orange VBB from getting squashed by a pickup while street parked. The grey one was when I laid down my GL and put myself in the emergency room.

Here's the after-hammering pic's

Nice!

That feeling…when you're just thinking about getting up. No matter how you ended up there. But you already know. Gotta go to the ER.

I've always been more of the, "If I can bounce right back up, then I'm not actually injured until I look at it" school of thought. That philosophy has gotten me home under my own power from more accidents and incidents than I care to admit, even if was only long enough to grab a phone charger or some reading material before heading to the ER.

WOW. that is really impressive.

I'm definitely hitting too hard.

Having to learn all these skills from scratch.

On the plus side, it's mostly just that one cowl with dents. the front fender is slightly asymmetrical.

Last shots as bare metal.

Really happy with how it looks.

I'm right there with ya.

Before I started on the GL, I'd never done a bit of bodywork in my life. I never even took auto shop in high school. Everything I know comes from reading, watching youtube videos, and practice.

I'm now 2.5 projects in and really happy that I put in the effort and got over the hump, because while it's a lot of work, the results are better than I'd ever expected.

I'd say you're on the same trajectory, it's just a matter of sticking with it, which you clearly have the ability to do.

The Rally is already looking great and the sense of pride that comes with looking at it and knowing that you brought it back from the grave can't be overstated.

We all pretty much start from scratch... You're getting there !
Once you figure out how to flow and move the metal, you can get it flatter and smoother and blend in the highs and lows. It takes time but worth the effort to get it as smooth as you reasonably can to minimize the thickness of the filler/glaze which can alter the shape of the surface. Keep in mind that low spots can be filled but highs will necessitate a heavier layer and will raise the surface around it and I try to never have any filler thicker than maybe 1/16".
With a guide coat of primer ( can be just a dusting) , and a flexible sanding block to follow the curves, you can keep working on the small dents and eventually bring the surface back to smooth.
The hard part is deciding when it's good enough because what feels or looks smooth at this stage will become something else when it's all one color and shiny with new paint.
As for grinding...On your tail and the inner curve at the rear of the tunnel, for instance, to fair out and blend in the high welds, you will have to apply a thick layer of filler which will cover the seam strip and you'll lose that detail unless you create it on the surface with filler. which means you'd have to fair that out along the strip and it just builds from there.
I like to use the edge of a cutting disk on the Dremel to carefully sculpt and detail those kind of areas and get the metal shaped right so the glaze only smooths it out and I am not creating too much detail with it. Make sense ?

This is not very dramatic but here is the SS leg shield when I started and then almost ready for filler. The edge had been bashed over and then roughly straightened out. This was typical on this bike. They had banged the dents out crudely but left them so they'd be below the surface but then used no filler under the crappy paint job.

Here is also a dent in the right cowl where you can clearly see that they just 'picked' out the center of the circular dent from the back and then hit those small dents back down. You can see the original dent and the raised ring around it from just popping the center back up. This certainly could be filled but there would be a general high bump on the panel.
I like to use a sharpie and denote the low spots or areas by their edges and the high spots with hash marks and work them up and down to where they blend as closely as I can get them.

Here is a before and after shot of the fender on my '68 wagon after I drove into the rear bumper of a plumber's utility truck. I find this kind of challenge very satisfying .

+1 on the marker.

I also keep a Sharpie in my pocket while I'm working. That way, if I see something, I can mark it so I remember to come back to it. I didn't get everything on my VBB, but I'm probably the only one who will notice the ones I missed.

Nothing like driving into the rear bumper of the plumbers truck to sharpen your body work skills. That's what I always say.
🙂
Moto - good explanation on highs and lows.
Tks.