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Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
I'm keeping a lot of the imperfections. Like the floor here is not completely flat. I'm not sure if the rails bent, but I think they had a slight curve, which made an indentation near the rail. I could Bondo it flat, but decided to just straighten out the areas where the spot welds are.
There's no reason to use any plastic filler at all on the bottom of the floor. Once it's sanded and primed, it's good. Even if there are weld marks, so what? As someone said above, they come like that from the factory.
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
I can kindve understand the hardcore preservation aspect, but keeping beautiful specimens hidden away almost defeats the point of having them, IMO. It's selfish, like locking art in a vault when it was meant to be seen and enjoyed.
I agree. It's like having a supermodel wife that you just use for a prop at social events and cocktail parties, but you never ph@k her.
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The great thing about your scoot is that you replaced metal with metal and did it right. Some concourse restorations and many customs use tons of filler. You have used filler correctly and because of that it will hold up as well as the paint and metal. Once you get the running gear and badges on any imperfections will be lost to the eye. Once you start riding, you won't give those things a second thought.
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Got all the dings and dents out. I get the hammer and dolly. It's more tapping than pounding.

The front fender... I think I have the shape! It was easier to reshape than I expected.
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Yes! That looks great. Hammer and dolly work can be subtle and can only be learned by doing.

Another thing I forgot to mention (or may have), it taking a taking a contour of a known good side or part and using that to guide your shaping of the damaged part.

https://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-contour-gauge-58311.html

You can attach a couple together, take the contour and make a cardboard template. I find cereal boxes work well. If you have a really complex shape, you can make a few. Mark both sides of the work with a sharpie for reference points. This is overkill for your fender cause it's done.
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orwell84 wrote:
Yes! That looks great. Hammer and dolly work can be subtle and can only be learned by doing.

Another thing I forgot to mention (or may have), it taking a taking a contour of a known good side or part and using that to guide your shaping of the damaged part.

https://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-contour-gauge-58311.html

You can attach a couple together, take the contour and make a cardboard template. I find cereal boxes work well. If you have a really complex shape, you can make a few. Mark both sides of the work with a sharpie for reference points. This is overkill for your fender cause it's done.
I was lucky. The curve of the good side matched one of the dollies I have perfectly.
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hjo wrote:
I was lucky. The curve of the good side matched one of the dollies I have perfectly.
Cool. No need to overthink it.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
This part turned out well!

I am so over body work. Too much!

There are some high spots from welds along the tunnel bottom, from where I welded holes from the inside. I might leave them. they're hard to get to. Maybe like a mini file or something?
Better than I expected.
Better than I expected.
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⚠️ Last edited by hjo on UTC; edited 1 time
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looks very good. hard work and time paid off
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Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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That looks fantastic man
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Most excellent man, most excellent! Clap emoticon Clap emoticon Clap emoticon
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First rate work!
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Closer every day.
The photo doesn't show, but this was the worst part. It's still a little bumpy, but getting closer. 

The way the panel came, I had to weld seams along the rails, and reshape a lot to fit. It's not as perfect as the stamped part, but is behind the fender.
The photo doesn't show, but this was the worst part. It's still a little bumpy, but getting closer. The way the panel came, I had to weld seams along the rails, and reshape a lot to fit. It's not as perfect as the stamped part, but is behind the fender.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Almost there. The legshield looks pretty good
Almost there. The legshield looks pretty good
I will now fit floor rails
I will now fit floor rails
The chrome on the headlight ring came out beautifully, but some pitting.
The chrome on the headlight ring came out beautifully, but some pitting.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
omg. so exciting. these look amazing, and were REALLY damaged.
omg. so exciting. these look amazing, and were REALLY damaged.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
The shape is a little off here. I have to figure out how to fix.
The shape is a little off here. I have to figure out how to fix.
Tiny bit of scrape where they didn't want to lose the 044

The shape is off a little here too.
Tiny bit of scrape where they didn't want to lose the 044 The shape is off a little here too.
This is what the trim looked like before. All dented and scratched.
This is what the trim looked like before. All dented and scratched.
The way the panel came, these seams needed to be welded up, which made it a but bumpy.
The way the panel came, these seams needed to be welded up, which made it a but bumpy.
The shape was so off. I had to hammer a lot to match. 

So I guess the result is pretty good. I hope not noticeable at all.
The shape was so off. I had to hammer a lot to match. So I guess the result is pretty good. I hope not noticeable at all.
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Looking good. Ulma trim looks miles better! Should be easy to tweak the shape by hand. Tiny tweaks/twists push/pull to get it to fit. Lots of back n forth. Use your leg as soft brace to bend it across.

Chrome ring looks good too! Did you have it replated? If so, I'd love to know the source.
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GeekLion wrote:
Chrome ring looks good too! Did you have it replated? If so, I'd love to know the source.
The chrome and trim restoration was from the person Bar Italia uses. I think Kristian did the trim himself.

The chrome looks really nice. But had some deep pitting. It had this very thick rust, that covered the whole top, so the pitting is less bad than I had expected.

Those are very hard to find!
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I found another set of these, for my other Rally. They popped up on Ebay.

It's interesting. The Vespa ones were CEV 173, and these are from a Harley Davidson, and have the code CEV 207, but they are identical except for a frosting pattern on the inside of the front of the lens.

173 and 207 side by side.
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that's awesome.
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Johnny Two Tone
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Are they the same as Serveta (lambretta)?
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Molto Verboso
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sdjohn wrote:
Are they the same as Serveta (lambretta)?
They're the same ones on Serveta, and lots of European bikes from that era. Also Ducati, Gilera. Harley Davidson had a bike called Aermacchi, that was a licensed import, so vintage Harley shops have some of these parts.
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The floor rails are a nightmare.

Are there better/worse versions of these? I think I might just order a better set.

The inside angle of the outer one seems wrong on all of them. But the ones I have are particularly bad.
lol
lol
Really happy I kept the old floorboard for the rivet locations.
Really happy I kept the old floorboard for the rivet locations.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
The shape is all wrong.
The shape is all wrong.
Too long, too.
Too long, too.
The floorboard curves to a 90 degree angle.
The floorboard curves to a 90 degree angle.
Way less than 90 degrees, and very hard to bend them sideways
Way less than 90 degrees, and very hard to bend them sideways
They are all warped at the bend.
They are all warped at the bend.
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It seems to me that You got an especially not-great set

they always need to be reshaped, especially the inside curve against the legshield needs lots of attention in order for the whole piece to lay flat. Often you'll see new rails on a 'resto' where the outside edge touches but the inside does not.
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My method….

I used some small nuts and bolts to attach the back curve of the rail first. I think I put in the first two bolts at the base before having to push and shape the rail to align with the floor board. I used vices, and c-clamps and the like to then bend and hold the rail into shape. Use a piece of all-thread, or a w piece of trim wood in the floor-rail channel so you don't bugger up the aluminum. Tape up your vice grips and clamps so you don't bugger up your primer too.

You will still have to manhandle the floor rails into shape, but the clamps and nuts and bolts should help get you there quicker.

Picture of my implements of torture below…
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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UTC quote
You're just learning why "fit the floorboards before you paint" is right up there with "don't forget the cotter pin" among the NSM mantra's.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Thanks for the tips! I think I might need to re-order just the outer ones.But I'll try to work these.

That curve at the top of the legshield, where they bend inward, is a real challenge.

It looks like the shape at the end is a difference in the new floorboard, The original one doesn't do a full 90 degrees. It's barely noticeable, until you compare them.

This bike is taking forever, bc I have to redo everything like three times to get it right.
Round one on these things, with model paint. Takes a few rounds.
Round one on these things, with model paint. Takes a few rounds.
I guess this texture is unavoidable with this method. maybe can smooth it out.
I guess this texture is unavoidable with this method. maybe can smooth it out.
ok. This looks bad. 

I had the original badges re-anodized. The shiny part looks good.
ok. This looks bad. I had the original badges re-anodized. The shiny part looks good.
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Lucky
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UTC quote
I also used Testors enamel on my Cushman badge. I didn't bother, but you can thin it down with mineral spirits or brush cleaner to make it flow better if you're looking for a smoother finish. It'll just take more coats to get a good opaque finish.
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Molto Verboso
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I'll try that!

I tried wiping it softly with the Testors thinner, and it all came off.

Some videos I saw suggested diluting it. I'll try multiple passes really thinned out.

The thinner works so well, I can probably paint it smoothly and then remove from the lettrs with a q tip.
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Lucky
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UTC quote
Once it's thinned down, it should just flow around the letters so you won't even need to.

Your other option would be to mask the highlights with clear nail polish, then spray paint it. The clear polish will mostly scrape right off with a plastic scraper, and you can do what's left with a tiny bit of acetone on a rag or q-tip.

Lots of ways to solve this problem. Just gotta find the one that works for you.
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Brush some patroleum jelly onto the raised surfaces then spray paint it and when it dries you just wash off the jelly
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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swiss1939 wrote:
Brush some patroleum jelly onto the raised surfaces then spray paint it and when it dries you just wash off the jelly
This seems like a good solution. I tried masking the letters with tape, but they are so detailed, it's not possible.
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
This seems like a good solution. I tried masking the letters with tape, but they are so detailed, it's not possible.
It's my interpretation of a print making process called stone lithography which uses a form of grease as the painting material to draw the image positive, then acids are applied to the surface of the stone which causes the non grease covered areas of the stone to absorb water while the grease covered section will repel water even after having the grease cleaned off. This allows you to brush water onto the surface of the stone then roll the ink onto the stone and the ink only sticks to the non water repelling sections.. thus creating the ink positive that you transfer to paper through sending the stone and paper through a press.

http://www.leicesterprintworkshop.com/printmaking/step_by_step_guide_to_stone_lithography/
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Thank you! I will try this!

Dry build. Before I remove the bearing races.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Fork stop.
Fork stop.
The ring hits the trim on both sides the same, but I think it's ok. I didn't seat the bearing race at the fork bottom all the way, so the headset will sit higher
The ring hits the trim on both sides the same, but I think it's ok. I didn't seat the bearing race at the fork bottom all the way, so the headset will sit higher
Same
Same
The headset will sit a bit higher than this.
The headset will sit a bit higher than this.
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fantastic work, top marks all around! it's great to see this coming together.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Ah. Figured out the floor rails.

It's the replacement floorboard. It's a bit shorter. and a different shape at the rear.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
They match up all the way to here. Not sure what to do here. I don't think they'll bend sideways.
They match up all the way to here. Not sure what to do here. I don't think they'll bend sideways.
Hangs over just a tiny bit.
Hangs over just a tiny bit.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
I didn't drill these ones yet.
I didn't drill these ones yet.
That part is covered by the cowl.
That part is covered by the cowl.
These look so crappy. Going to order another. 

These are the Pascoli "A+ Perfect Restoration" ones.
These look so crappy. Going to order another. These are the Pascoli "A+ Perfect Restoration" ones.
I made my drill template from the rear of the old floorboard. And the top holes from another Rally frame.

The replacement floorboard is shorter by about an inch, or these are too long. So have to trim the tops, or they'll hit the number plate and legshie
I made my drill template from the rear of the old floorboard. And the top holes from another Rally frame. The replacement floorboard is shorter by about an inch, or these are too long. So have to trim the tops, or they'll hit the number plate and legshie
Other side of the frame bridge, all fixed.
Other side of the frame bridge, all fixed.
So close. Just have to finish the skim coat, and one final round of sanding primer. 

I keep finding little flaws, and fixing. The paint is so expensive, I want to be best possible outcome.
So close. Just have to finish the skim coat, and one final round of sanding primer. I keep finding little flaws, and fixing. The paint is so expensive, I want to be best possible outcome.
@orwell84 avatar
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You've come so far with this. Lots of little details can seem to take forever, but you're on the home stretch. It's really gonna pop when you pull it all together.
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Very cool Project ! I would love to own a Rally one day !In Europe they became so freakin Pricey though!
@orwell84 avatar
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I've been trying to think of a way you could bend those floor rails. I'm assuming they are aluminum.

I was thinking you could cut out a block of wood the correct shape of the inner radius and clamp them to a bench. Heat the end of the floor rail and slowly bend it using a hammer and a block of wood. The flat part of the channel might crumple, which is ok. That extra metal has to go somewhere. Try to make the metal crumple evenly as you bend it. Better to have a number of small crumples than one big one. Then you would shrink the crumpled flat with heat and gentle hammering.
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UTC quote
If the problem is the floor, whatever rails you buy, they'll probably be the same. I would trim the ones you have and make them fit…
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@oopsclunkthud avatar
3:5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8968
Location: San Francisco
UTC quote
a wood form is a good idea, you could even bevel the bottom edge to match the runner as well as keep it in place. a wood block between the runner and hammer would help too.

I don't even think heat is needed, time to watch some Ron Covell for ideas.
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
VespistaX wrote:
Very cool Project ! I would love to own a Rally one day !In Europe they became so freakin Pricey though!
I bought this one for $800. But it's definitely cheaper to buy one in perfect shape.
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
a wood form is a good idea, you could even bevel the bottom edge to match the runner as well as keep it in place. a wood block between the runner and hammer would help too.

I don't even think heat is needed, time to watch some Ron Covell for ideas.
I can try that! I still have access to the shop. They have all sorts of things. A hydraulic press, I think they have a tube bender.

My OCD won't let me leave this looking wrong.

If I do another one of these, I'll try to keep as much of the original metal as possible. I could have saved the floorboard, and just replaced the center tunnel area. It's so strange how the repro parts are so perfect in some ways, and way off in others.

I can try this!

I could cut them, maybe? But would need to fuse the metal back somehow. They're too soft to weld, I think.
I could cut them, maybe? But would need to fuse the metal back somehow. They're too soft to weld, I think.
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