Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 2279
Location: Siam
 
Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 2279
Location: Siam
hjo wrote:
I'm keeping a lot of the imperfections. Like the floor here is not completely flat. I'm not sure if the rails bent, but I think they had a slight curve, which made an indentation near the rail. I could Bondo it flat, but decided to just straighten out the areas where the spot welds are.
There's no reason to use any plastic filler at all on the bottom of the floor. Once it's sanded and primed, it's good. Even if there are weld marks, so what? As someone said above, they come like that from the factory.

Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 2279
Location: Siam
 
Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 2279
Location: Siam
chandlerman wrote:
I can kindve understand the hardcore preservation aspect, but keeping beautiful specimens hidden away almost defeats the point of having them, IMO. It's selfish, like locking art in a vault when it was meant to be seen and enjoyed.
I agree. It's like having a supermodel wife that you just use for a prop at social events and cocktail parties, but you never ph@k her.

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
Location: northern New York
The great thing about your scoot is that you replaced metal with metal and did it right. Some concourse restorations and many customs use tons of filler. You have used filler correctly and because of that it will hold up as well as the paint and metal. Once you get the running gear and badges on any imperfections will be lost to the eye. Once you start riding, you won't give those things a second thought.

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
Got all the dings and dents out. I get the hammer and dolly. It's more tapping than pounding.

The front fender... I think I have the shape! It was easier to reshape than I expected.










Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
Location: northern New York
Yes! That looks great. Hammer and dolly work can be subtle and can only be learned by doing.

Another thing I forgot to mention (or may have), it taking a taking a contour of a known good side or part and using that to guide your shaping of the damaged part.

https://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-contour-gauge-58311.html

You can attach a couple together, take the contour and make a cardboard template. I find cereal boxes work well. If you have a really complex shape, you can make a few. Mark both sides of the work with a sharpie for reference points. This is overkill for your fender cause it's done.

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
orwell84 wrote:
Yes! That looks great. Hammer and dolly work can be subtle and can only be learned by doing.

Another thing I forgot to mention (or may have), it taking a taking a contour of a known good side or part and using that to guide your shaping of the damaged part.

https://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-contour-gauge-58311.html

You can attach a couple together, take the contour and make a cardboard template. I find cereal boxes work well. If you have a really complex shape, you can make a few. Mark both sides of the work with a sharpie for reference points. This is overkill for your fender cause it's done.
I was lucky. The curve of the good side matched one of the dollies I have perfectly.

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
Location: northern New York
hjo wrote:
I was lucky. The curve of the good side matched one of the dollies I have perfectly.
Cool. No need to overthink it.

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
This part turned out well!

I am so over body work. Too much!

There are some high spots from welds along the tunnel bottom, from where I welded holes from the inside. I might leave them. they're hard to get to. Maybe like a mini file or something?


Better than I expected.









Last edited by hjo on Sun May 22, 2022 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 1451
Location: PNW from LBC
 
The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 1451
Location: PNW from LBC
looks very good. hard work and time paid off

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8884
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8884
Location: Atlanta, GA
That looks fantastic man

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 3289
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 3289
Location: Florence, OR
Most excellent man, most excellent!

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
Location: northern New York
First rate work!

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
Closer every day.


The photo doesn't show, but this was the worst part. It's still a little bumpy, but getting closer.

The way the panel came, I had to weld seams along the rails, and reshape a lot to fit. It's not as perfect as the stamped part, but is behind the fender.




Almost there. The legshield looks pretty good


I will now fit floor rails


The chrome on the headlight ring came out beautifully, but some pitting.




omg. so exciting. these look amazing, and were REALLY damaged.






The shape is a little off here. I have to figure out how to fix.


Tiny bit of scrape where they didn't want to lose the 044

The shape is off a little here too.


This is what the trim looked like before. All dented and scratched.


The way the panel came, these seams needed to be welded up, which made it a but bumpy.


The shape was so off. I had to hammer a lot to match.

So I guess the result is pretty good. I hope not noticeable at all.


The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
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Location: PNW from LBC
 
The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 1451
Location: PNW from LBC
Looking good. Ulma trim looks miles better! Should be easy to tweak the shape by hand. Tiny tweaks/twists push/pull to get it to fit. Lots of back n forth. Use your leg as soft brace to bend it across.

Chrome ring looks good too! Did you have it replated? If so, I'd love to know the source.

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
GeekLion wrote:
Chrome ring looks good too! Did you have it replated? If so, I'd love to know the source.
The chrome and trim restoration was from the person Bar Italia uses. I think Kristian did the trim himself.

The chrome looks really nice. But had some deep pitting. It had this very thick rust, that covered the whole top, so the pitting is less bad than I had expected.

Those are very hard to find!




Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
I found another set of these, for my other Rally. They popped up on Ebay.

It's interesting. The Vespa ones were CEV 173, and these are from a Harley Davidson, and have the code CEV 207, but they are identical except for a frosting pattern on the inside of the front of the lens.

173 and 207 side by side.








Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6701
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6701
Location: San Diego, CA
that's awesome.

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6701
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6701
Location: San Diego, CA
Are they the same as Serveta (lambretta)?

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
sdjohn wrote:
Are they the same as Serveta (lambretta)?
They're the same ones on Serveta, and lots of European bikes from that era. Also Ducati, Gilera. Harley Davidson had a bike called Aermacchi, that was a licensed import, so vintage Harley shops have some of these parts.

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
The floor rails are a nightmare.

Are there better/worse versions of these? I think I might just order a better set.

The inside angle of the outer one seems wrong on all of them. But the ones I have are particularly bad.


lol


Really happy I kept the old floorboard for the rivet locations.




The shape is all wrong.


Too long, too.


The floorboard curves to a 90 degree angle.


Way less than 90 degrees, and very hard to bend them sideways


They are all warped at the bend.


The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
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Location: PNW from LBC
 
The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 1451
Location: PNW from LBC
It seems to me that You got an especially not-great set

they always need to be reshaped, especially the inside curve against the legshield needs lots of attention in order for the whole piece to lay flat. Often you'll see new rails on a 'resto' where the outside edge touches but the inside does not.

Not So Moderator
VNB VSC o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6566
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
VNB VSC o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6566
Location: Hustletown, TX
My method….

I used some small nuts and bolts to attach the back curve of the rail first. I think I put in the first two bolts at the base before having to push and shape the rail to align with the floor board. I used vices, and c-clamps and the like to then bend and hold the rail into shape. Use a piece of all-thread, or a w piece of trim wood in the floor-rail channel so you don't bugger up the aluminum. Tape up your vice grips and clamps so you don't bugger up your primer too.

You will still have to manhandle the floor rails into shape, but the clamps and nuts and bolts should help get you there quicker.

Picture of my implements of torture below…




Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6814
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6814
Location: Nashville
You're just learning why "fit the floorboards before you paint" is right up there with "don't forget the cotter pin" among the NSM mantra's.

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
Thanks for the tips! I think I might need to re-order just the outer ones.But I'll try to work these.

That curve at the top of the legshield, where they bend inward, is a real challenge.

It looks like the shape at the end is a difference in the new floorboard, The original one doesn't do a full 90 degrees. It's barely noticeable, until you compare them.

This bike is taking forever, bc I have to redo everything like three times to get it right.


Round one on these things, with model paint. Takes a few rounds.


I guess this texture is unavoidable with this method. maybe can smooth it out.


ok. This looks bad.

I had the original badges re-anodized. The shiny part looks good.


Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6814
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6814
Location: Nashville
I also used Testors enamel on my Cushman badge. I didn't bother, but you can thin it down with mineral spirits or brush cleaner to make it flow better if you're looking for a smoother finish. It'll just take more coats to get a good opaque finish.

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
I'll try that!

I tried wiping it softly with the Testors thinner, and it all came off.

Some videos I saw suggested diluting it. I'll try multiple passes really thinned out.

The thinner works so well, I can probably paint it smoothly and then remove from the lettrs with a q tip.




Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6814
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6814
Location: Nashville
Once it's thinned down, it should just flow around the letters so you won't even need to.

Your other option would be to mask the highlights with clear nail polish, then spray paint it. The clear polish will mostly scrape right off with a plastic scraper, and you can do what's left with a tiny bit of acetone on a rag or q-tip.

Lots of ways to solve this problem. Just gotta find the one that works for you.

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 4048
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 4048
Location: Staten Island, NY
Brush some patroleum jelly onto the raised surfaces then spray paint it and when it dries you just wash off the jelly

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
swiss1939 wrote:
Brush some patroleum jelly onto the raised surfaces then spray paint it and when it dries you just wash off the jelly
This seems like a good solution. I tried masking the letters with tape, but they are so detailed, it's not possible.

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
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Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 4048
Location: Staten Island, NY
hjo wrote:
This seems like a good solution. I tried masking the letters with tape, but they are so detailed, it's not possible.
It's my interpretation of a print making process called stone lithography which uses a form of grease as the painting material to draw the image positive, then acids are applied to the surface of the stone which causes the non grease covered areas of the stone to absorb water while the grease covered section will repel water even after having the grease cleaned off. This allows you to brush water onto the surface of the stone then roll the ink onto the stone and the ink only sticks to the non water repelling sections.. thus creating the ink positive that you transfer to paper through sending the stone and paper through a press.

http://www.leicesterprintworkshop.com/printmaking/step_by_step_guide_to_stone_lithography/

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
Thank you! I will try this!

Dry build. Before I remove the bearing races.




Fork stop.


The ring hits the trim on both sides the same, but I think it's ok. I didn't seat the bearing race at the fork bottom all the way, so the headset will sit higher


Same


The headset will sit a bit higher than this.


Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12202
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12202
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
fantastic work, top marks all around! it's great to see this coming together.

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
Ah. Figured out the floor rails.

It's the replacement floorboard. It's a bit shorter. and a different shape at the rear.




They match up all the way to here. Not sure what to do here. I don't think they'll bend sideways.


Hangs over just a tiny bit.




I didn't drill these ones yet.


That part is covered by the cowl.


These look so crappy. Going to order another.

These are the Pascoli "A+ Perfect Restoration" ones.


I made my drill template from the rear of the old floorboard. And the top holes from another Rally frame.

The replacement floorboard is shorter by about an inch, or these are too long. So have to trim the tops, or they'll hit the number plate and legshie


Other side of the frame bridge, all fixed.


So close. Just have to finish the skim coat, and one final round of sanding primer.

I keep finding little flaws, and fixing. The paint is so expensive, I want to be best possible outcome.


Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
Location: northern New York
You've come so far with this. Lots of little details can seem to take forever, but you're on the home stretch. It's really gonna pop when you pull it all together.

Enthusiast
Joined: 07 Nov 2014
Posts: 62

 
Enthusiast
Joined: 07 Nov 2014
Posts: 62

Very cool Project ! I would love to own a Rally one day !In Europe they became so freakin Pricey though!

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
Location: northern New York
I've been trying to think of a way you could bend those floor rails. I'm assuming they are aluminum.

I was thinking you could cut out a block of wood the correct shape of the inner radius and clamp them to a bench. Heat the end of the floor rail and slowly bend it using a hammer and a block of wood. The flat part of the channel might crumple, which is ok. That extra metal has to go somewhere. Try to make the metal crumple evenly as you bend it. Better to have a number of small crumples than one big one. Then you would shrink the crumpled flat with heat and gentle hammering.

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 3342
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 3342
Location: Veria, Greece
If the problem is the floor, whatever rails you buy, they'll probably be the same. I would trim the ones you have and make them fit…

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 8352
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 8352
Location: San Francisco
a wood form is a good idea, you could even bevel the bottom edge to match the runner as well as keep it in place. a wood block between the runner and hammer would help too.

I don't even think heat is needed, time to watch some Ron Covell for ideas.

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
VespistaX wrote:
Very cool Project ! I would love to own a Rally one day !In Europe they became so freakin Pricey though!
I bought this one for $800. But it's definitely cheaper to buy one in perfect shape.

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
oopsclunkthud wrote:
a wood form is a good idea, you could even bevel the bottom edge to match the runner as well as keep it in place. a wood block between the runner and hammer would help too.

I don't even think heat is needed, time to watch some Ron Covell for ideas.
I can try that! I still have access to the shop. They have all sorts of things. A hydraulic press, I think they have a tube bender.

My OCD won't let me leave this looking wrong.

If I do another one of these, I'll try to keep as much of the original metal as possible. I could have saved the floorboard, and just replaced the center tunnel area. It's so strange how the repro parts are so perfect in some ways, and way off in others.

I can try this!




I could cut them, maybe? But would need to fuse the metal back somehow. They're too soft to weld, I think.

   

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