Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:01 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:01 am linkquote
I'm loving the Sun Yellow, myself. And you can put a hell of a big LED headlight in that Euro headset, too, if that's your thing.
Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:50 am

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6215
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6215
Location: So Cal
Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:50 am linkquote
Rallies were produced in about 20 different colors over the years in different markets ... here's a list:

https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2306591#2306591

... and I agree, China Blue is spectacular. Maybe we can get MJ to post a glamor shot of his Azzuro Cina beauty.
Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:02 pm

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Scattered remnants of 1974 Rally
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
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Location: San Francisco, CA
 
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Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:02 pm linkquote
Birdsnest wrote:
Man... love the China blue with the rally stripes and bar ends. Scoot will be rad whatever you decide.

And totally agree the big euro headset is a great look. It almost makes it look like the handle bars had a slight drop. Hella cool. (Almost looks like there are actual drops on that coral red one.)
I think the headsets were designed to accommodate the bar end lights.

This is my throttle tube. It has a plastic sleeve with a thread pattern inside. I wondered what that was for, but must be those.

They were used for some import markets that required turn signals. But the US must have required front and rear.

I'd imagine they get broken a lot. They're in such a precarious place.





Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:19 pm

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2581
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2581
Location: Veria, Greece
Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:31 pm

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Scattered remnants of 1974 Rally
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 837
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:31 pm linkquote
aah! It's great you can get the whole set!

Now I'm considering changing the headset, but conflicted, bc it's a complete American spec one, and there are so few of those left.
Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:27 am

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Scattered remnants of 1974 Rally
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Addicted
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Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:27 am linkquote
I decided on a color. Rosso Corallo 880.

It's a red with a bit of pink and brown in it. Very 1970s. Even though it wasn't a 1974 color.

Now have to figure out how to find the paint code.















Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:05 am

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2581
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2581
Location: Veria, Greece
Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:05 am linkquote
The code is 880. Depending the paint company it will be PIA 880, PIAG 880...
Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:43 am

Addicted
Scattered remnants of 1974 Rally
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Location: San Francisco, CA
 
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Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:43 am linkquote
SaFiS wrote:
The code is 880. Depending the paint company it will be PIA 880, PIAG 880...
Maybe it's not that hard?

It looks like Max Meyer is owned by an American company called PPG, that even has a store in San Francisco.

Can I just give them the code?
Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:22 pm

Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 1139
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
 
Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 1139
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:22 pm linkquote
hjo wrote:
Maybe it's not that hard?

It looks like Max Meyer is owned by an American company called PPG, that even has a store in San Francisco.

Can I just give them the code?
PPG did not transfer that color code over to their newer line.
You can use that color code at a Glasurit Paint store and they can mix it for you.
Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:34 pm

Addicted
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Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:34 pm linkquote
rowdyc wrote:
PPG did not transfer that color code over to their newer line.
You can use that color code at a Glasurit Paint store and they can mix it for you.
Would I need to order and ship from Europe?
Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:53 pm

Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 1139
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
 
Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 1139
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:53 pm linkquote
hjo wrote:
Would I need to order and ship from Europe?
Google the closet Glasurit Paint store near you. Give them a call to see if they can mix that paint code. They can mix the old Max Meyer paint codes.
Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:03 pm

Addicted
Scattered remnants of 1974 Rally
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 837
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Addicted
Scattered remnants of 1974 Rally
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Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:03 pm linkquote
rowdyc wrote:
Google the closet Glasurit Paint store near you. Give them a call to see if they can mix that paint code. They can mix the old Max Meyer paint codes.
It looks like Glasurit is the owned by BASF. They have some distributors locally. I'll try calling.

https://refinish.basf.us/where-to-buy/
Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:22 pm

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Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:22 pm linkquote
Replacements for broken parts.

Managed to find a 1974 Rally case. Still going to try to repair the broken one, but in case it's not possible.

Were the flywheel fans on Rallys painted, or bare aluminum?


The broken case.


Flywheel fan


This case is all there.

Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:33 am

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Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:33 am linkquote
This is something I've never seen.

The handlebar had some kind of impact at some point, pushing over the position of the aluminum part by quite a lot.

There's only a minor visible damage to the end of the bar. But must have been a pretty severe impact.

Should probably check the frame.








The whole thing kind of bent.

Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:41 pm

Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 1139
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
 
Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 1139
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:41 pm linkquote
hjo wrote:
.........

Should probably check the frame.
I would at least put a leveling laser on it. There are cheap on Amazon or at Harbor Freight.


That picture maybe deceiving from this angle but should the shield be in front of the fork hole and the fork hole line up with the tunnel?

Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 pm

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Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 pm linkquote
rowdyc wrote:
I would at least put a leveling laser on it. There are cheap on Amazon or at Harbor Freight.
I'll try the piece of string from there to the rear seat post, too.
Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:34 pm

Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
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Location: PNW from LBC
 
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Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:34 pm linkquote
Couple things:

Congrats on finding a motor. Way better way to go than fixing the broken bearing seat on the old one. Its (maybe) doable, but must be very precision work. Recommend to Use the good set, and pass the others along.

Fan should be bare aluminum, not painted.

Headset and frame definitley look tweaked. Def took a git at some point. Frame badge and steering tube races should be perfectly centered to each other, and centered to the rest of the frame as a whole. Its been hit and needs alignment, from what I can tell in the pix. As Rowdy said, check it with a lazer, or even a long straight edge laid lengthwise across the tank/frame
Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:25 am

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Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:25 am linkquote
GeekLion wrote:
Couple things:

Congrats on finding a motor. Way better way to go than fixing the broken bearing seat on the old one. Its (maybe) doable, but must be very precision work. Recommend to Use the good set, and pass the others along.

Fan should be bare aluminum, not painted.

Headset and frame definitley look tweaked. Def took a git at some point. Frame badge and steering tube races should be perfectly centered to each other, and centered to the rest of the frame as a whole. Its been hit and needs alignment, from what I can tell in the pix. As Rowdy said, check it with a lazer, or even a long straight edge laid lengthwise across the tank/frame
Thanks! That was miraculous. Finding an engine.

I was thinking if trying to save the original engine, but mostly because the SN is so close to the bike. The original engine is close to the frame (*12,xxx*), and the new engine is *15,xxx*. But the numbers aren't an exact match (I don't think they ever were for Vespas).

For the headset, considering getting the Euro version, which was the one designed for the bike.

But torn on whether to keep it an American spec Rally (which are pretty rare). In the US, you don't often see ones that have all the original US-spec parts.

The Euro ones look nicer. I could do the Hella bar end turn signals, and the parts like the headlight/ring are easier to find than the CEV ones.

I'll take more frame pictures! The frame is definitely needing some work.
Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:38 pm

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Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:38 pm linkquote
The frame.

I placed a string from the seat latch to the center of the fork tube. Not sure if it says a lot.

The frame needs a lot of repair. But it doesn't look bent as far as I can tell.

It's very messy, with a lot of filler and paint covering some rust, and definitely needs a new floorboard and straightening in places.

I'm tempted to get it blasted, but might wait until after I remove the floorboard.


All the centers line up here.


This looks crooked, but I think is the perspective.




The floorboard needs to be replaced all the way up to the top of the rail area. There is rust pushing apart the sheets of metal, making the spot welds look like upholstery buttons.


Bulges and dimples at the spot welds, but the structure looks ok. Some water got in the frame and the flat parts have this.


What would cause the legshield at the top brace to pull away like this?


Crunchy tail.


Looks ok from this angle.


Upside down
Vespa, you turn me
Inside out
And round and round


Some serious damage to the fork stop. It would take a significant impact to do this. The fork is ok, though.

Horn cast asymmetry.


There is rust causing bulges all along where the tunnel meets the floorboard.




I can't find a repair sheet for the tail, even though it's the most common place for damage.


This doesn't look that bad.




Have to remove the bondo here. But this bridge part needs some new metal too, though just in spots.


When frames are bent, they will have dents here. This looks pretty good. There are some slight indentations, but I think might be rust spots that were sanded or a place where there was filler.

Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:25 pm

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Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:25 pm linkquote
Just documenting my slow-going project. Ordering parts. Preparing for surgery.


A look down the frame from the horncast. It doesn't look bad.


Frame channel from inside. Doesn't look that bad either. I will have it blasted when the floor is removed.


The spot welds have rust at the bottom of the frame. Unfortunately higher than the floorboard pieces go, so need a whole legshield to get the curve.


A photo from someone's restoration. The spot weld rust appears to be common. This one has it too.


Rust forms between the reinforcement plate here and legshield, and is visible on the exterior.


It's a shame they don't make these a few inches taller.


The replacement parts require a lot of work. On this one, you need to fabricate the reinforcement plate, and the horncast area is missing.

If it was stamped like the original, you could just spot weld the whole thing.


These areas will be replaced.


Aside from the fork stop needing reshaping, the whole bracket looks off-center, but this must be from the factory. If it was bent, the frame and sheet metal would be too. I think it's ok?


This will be the biggest challenge. The whole area where the rear of the frame attaches has rust.


This will require bracing the frame to remove/repair.


There are a couple of styles of these. Seems more safe to do one side at a time rather than the whole area at once.


Different types of welds. x - stitching with MIG welder, hollow circles - plug welds, solid circles, spot welds.

Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:41 pm

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Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:41 pm linkquote
While I wait for parts from Germany, I am watching YouTube videos.

This person makes welding stamped steel panels look like something I could do.

Haven't decided yet whether to use a welding shop. I think I might try to do repairs myself. But I've never done welding.

But I've watched enough videos to feel like I could.

Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:15 am

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Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:15 am linkquote
It's amazing how these things clean up.

The carb/box had the remnants of gas from 1983 (yuck!) - all turned to this gel consistency. But the 2 stroke oil looked clean.

I have never seen this, but the carb looks warped along the top part above the float bowl. You can see light through the seam when it is attached.

Is this something the gasket will fix?

The slide moves freely. That's where carbs usually warp.


Is this the color of a 1970s Del'Orto float? Or the color it turns after sitting in stale gas for decades?


The gap here is pretty dramatic.


A Dell'Orto SI 24/24. I loved this bike bc it had all its original parts, but looks like I'll end up replacing a lot of them anyway.


Engine all cleaned up and ready for vapor blasting.

Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:49 am

Addicted
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 625
Location: Philadelphia
 
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Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:49 am linkquote
Is that a ginormous crack up by the swingarm there?
Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:01 pm

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Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:01 pm linkquote
FridayMatinee wrote:
Is that a ginormous crack up by the swingarm there?
It's just a very strange place to put a seam in the sand casting.

It goes all the way around.

The casting is very rough on this one, and they didn't clean it up at the factory at all. There are a couple of razor sharp spots at seams.







Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:31 pm

Addicted
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Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:31 pm linkquote
I guess Giovanni dipped out to the bathroom when the quality check was done and let his apprentice Mario take over... friggin Mario...

That's a wild looking fake crack!
Glad that's all it is too.
Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:29 pm

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Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:29 pm linkquote
A little bit of attention to the trouble spots.

These are difficult, bc it's hard to find a reference of what they should look like.


Someone at some point bent these out of shape, to fit an oversized battery.


Looks like they come straight out, and then have a 90 degree angle.

These shouldn't be too hard. The spare tire rim indicates where they should line up.


Straightened out a bit. This will need some welding.

It's had to tell what the shape should be.


The beads on the two sides are different. One is rounded, one folds over at the edge.


Not sure how this corner is supposed to look.


This spot seems to make sense where it has the square edge.


The best photos I can find are from auction websites. But those are restorations.



Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:04 pm

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Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:04 pm linkquote
Some progress.

And before and after vapor blasting shots. (lots).






Rally 200 engine. Looking new.


Flywheel side before


After










Flywheel before


The flywheel didn't clean up as much.


Carb before


Carb after


Before


These Rally CEV turn signal posts, like all the parts exposed to the elements, have lost material with oxidation. It's really noticeable when they're clean.






The elements have eaten away some of the brake pedal.





Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:10 pm

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Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:10 pm linkquote
Few more. I post lots of photos.

Hopefully it's a good reference for what vapor blasting a vintage Vespa engine results are like.

Really happy.

It was done by Scooters Originali. They did a nice job. I shipped it there, and they had it back in a week.




Carb box before











Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:52 am

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
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Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:52 am linkquote
Thanks for the pics and the examples of what vapor blasting can do. Very nice!
Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:36 am

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Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:36 am linkquote
qascooter wrote:
Thanks for the pics and the examples of what vapor blasting can do. Very nice!
Thanks!!

I am taking lots of photos.

I looked around a lot for photos (and vendors) for vapor blasting. They're surprisingly scant. There was one place in all of Northern California that did it, and apparently they're out of business.

Scooters Originali did a nice job. That was $400 for all those parts.

It's definitely an improvement! Not exactly brand new looking, but I guess as close as it will get. It's pretty magic how it removes all the oxidation and darkened aluminum.

But like other blasting, seems to make the areas that were oxidized more visible. You can really see where they were degraded by the sun/water. But it looks all clean and healed.
Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:48 am

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Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:48 am linkquote
Damage, or casting mark?

Cleaning up the front swing arm, and I'm puzzled by this one. It looks like it's made from two pieces cast together. The aluminum body, and a steel plate where the fork attaches.

Is this how it looks? Seems like there was more aluminum, that broke off.

But the fork pivot part is there.






It's hard to tell. FA makes a reproduction, but the shape is slightly different.

Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:21 pm

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Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:21 pm linkquote
And now on the to really gruesome part. The frame.

What's underneath a thick layer of bondo? Rust.

It's worse than I thought.

Still going to try to repair. But definitely a challenge.

I think the frame might be slightly bent. I need to check it. There's no crumpling in the channel, but it looks like the legshield was pulled away the slightest bit, making the spot welds dimple on one side. Or could be nothing.

This is the part I've been dreading, but ready to face it.


Took a heat gun and started removing.


This whole area was covered by bondo thicker than the sheet metal.


Heated up, the bondo just comes off in strups with a putty knife.


The underside of a strip of bondo. Looks archaeological.


The rust on the floorboard is worse than I thought. Not sure how bad it is between the pieces of metal. The frame channel seems ok. It's much worse on one side, because the center stand was worn, and the bike leaned to this side.


The rust is pushing apart between the spot welds.


The rust damage appears to end here, but one side of the legshield has rivet dimples that are different from the other.


The top layer of sheet metal is just all eaten away here, and needs to be replaced. On both sides.


The seam on this side where the legshield meets the tunnel is just ever so slightly pulled away.


There's a bit of dimpling in the rivets, just on this side. I wonder if this is tweaked frame. It's very slight. Maybe it's nothing.

Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:32 pm

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Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:32 pm linkquote
rowdyc wrote:
I would at least put a leveling laser on it. There are cheap on Amazon or at Harbor Freight.
I'm going to get one. Will that tell me if it's bent?

I need to find a shop with a jig, and I guess need to know the correct angle of the fork tube?
Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:51 pm

Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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Posts: 1921
Location: Siam
 
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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Posts: 1921
Location: Siam
Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:51 pm linkquote
hjo wrote:
Really happy. It was done by Scooters Originali. They did a nice job. I shipped it there, and they had it back in a week.
I think the business has relatively new owners.
Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:02 am

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Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:02 am linkquote
nomadinsiam wrote:
I think the business has relatively new owners.
It's someone named Rob that works out of his home in the suburbs of Portland, OR.

He seems mostly to be importing Lambretta parts, and working on Lambrettas.

The old shop was in Philadelphia, right?

It almost seems like a different shop. But I was really happy with it. He turned it around so fast, and the parts he had were great. He had ricambi Piaggio and Dell'Orto gaskets.
Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:27 pm

Hooked
1974 Rally (3), 1971 Rally 180, 1960 Li 125
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 416
Location: Southern California, USA
 
Hooked
1974 Rally (3), 1971 Rally 180, 1960 Li 125
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Posts: 416
Location: Southern California, USA
Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:27 pm linkquote
Nice! I can take pictures of anything if you need.
Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:30 pm

Hooked
1968 VBB150
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Posts: 320
Location: OC
 
Hooked
1968 VBB150
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Posts: 320
Location: OC
Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:30 pm linkquote
The tail bottom (at least on My 180)
Was flat then curved on the back, but with a bump (like the legsheild) on the side. I spent waaay too much time on this so I think it's right.
Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:02 pm

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Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:02 pm linkquote
Dwight Schmidt wrote:
Nice! I can take pictures of anything if you need.
Thanks!!
Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:10 pm

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Posts: 837
Location: San Francisco, CA
Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:10 pm linkquote
dsnyder586 wrote:
The tail bottom (at least on My 180)
Was flat then curved on the back, but with a bump (like the legsheild) on the side. I spent waaay too much time on this so I think it's right.
How did you end up fixing? You were missing some metal.

I had a question for you. What type of welding shop did you use? Here, there are ones that are like master welders, but mostly do things like furniture and stair rails. And then body shops, but those mostly seem to do rough work, or do like ferrari restorations, and are super expensive.

And with the frame jig. Did you know the exact angles for a vespa?

I found these photos of the tail, which helps.









Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:04 am

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:04 am linkquote
hjo wrote:
Damage, or casting mark?

Cleaning up the front swing arm, and I'm puzzled by this one. It looks like it's made from two pieces cast together. The aluminum body, and a steel plate where the fork attaches.

Is this how it looks? Seems like there was more aluminum, that broke off.

But the fork pivot part is there.
Rough casting marks that were never cleaned up. I got a new front fork for the Allstate, an FAItalia, and it had the same rough outer cast stuff. I just filed it off clean and installed. All is well...

And I just saw the pics of the body. Bummer! Seeing that hurts....I feel for you....
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