@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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142 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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142 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Comparing the latest cowl pictures with the ones before, the difference is huge. You're doing phenomenal work!
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
It's getting close.

I'm coming to terms with it not being perfect. I have it so close, and keep redoing body work, but there are still imperfections. The cowls are the worst.

But I think I'm ok with it being an 8/10. I want to ride it, and not put it in a museum. So it will probably get some wear/damage.

It will be a 10/10 of operating condition. All new mechanical and electrical parts.
I'm actually kind of amazed at how well the seam came out. But it's not a perfect match.
I'm actually kind of amazed at how well the seam came out. But it's not a perfect match.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
I sanded everything down to paintable state.
I sanded everything down to paintable state.
It's less noticeable with the center mat.
It's less noticeable with the center mat.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
The cowls look perfect in this light.
The cowls look perfect in this light.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
In the harshest shadows, they're not perfect.
In the harshest shadows, they're not perfect.
You can really see here.
You can really see here.
I straightened out the tail. It's actually pretty straight at the bottom, but feels like it isn't.
I straightened out the tail. It's actually pretty straight at the bottom, but feels like it isn't.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
I left the kind of puffy spot welds. I might revisit this.
I left the kind of puffy spot welds. I might revisit this.
This is all behind the fender. And not really noticeable. And it felt honest to keep it.
This is all behind the fender. And not really noticeable. And it felt honest to keep it.
Trim fitting stage. This will take some work. I have to trim all the rails.
Trim fitting stage. This will take some work. I have to trim all the rails.
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
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Location: Nashville

142 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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142 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
I think you're being too hard on yourself regarding the bodywork in general and the tunnel seam in particular.

Don't forget that these machines were all made by hand, so there was a lot more variation in them than we come to expect from the welding & assembly robots, CNC'ed parts, and clean-room robot paint jobs.

You're already going to have one of the best looking scooters around here, at the minimum, so embrace that and keep moving it forward.

Also, you don't want to get it so perfect that you're afraid to ride it--and it's easy to say that won't happen, but I've seen more than one person show up to ride on a crappy scoot because they were worried the "good" scooter would get scraped in a parking row, blown over by the wind, or they couldn't quit worrying about it getting stolen long enough to enjoy an after-ride burger and beer.

Finish it, ride it, love it!
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
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Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
This! Chandler man is spot on!

You've done a fantastic job and my hats off to you man. I would've never taken on such a project. Waayyy out of my league.

But I've sure enjoyed following along, so thanks for that You're close!
@moto64 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
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Molto Verboso
@moto64 avatar
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
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UTC quote
I agree with both of these guys wholeheartedly. There will be some disbelief when you mention it was your first round.
What you have accomplished is remarkable and the one thing you will take from this project is a keener sense of how every stage affects the final result.
Can't wait to see it in paint.
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
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Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
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UTC quote
Been burning and bashing metal since 1993. I couldn't have done any better than you. Lots of places on my bus that I could not get perfect in spite of all my time and best effort. Stuff like your seam, but worse. I drive it. If I wanted to take it to car shows and put mirrors under it to show off a powder coated suspension it would be different.

Stuff will jump out of you after you paint it, but just let it go. When you spend so much time looking at something so closely, you actually see it differently. It's like someone with anorexia seeing themselves as fat when everyone else sees a walking skeleton.
@cdevillasante avatar
UTC

Hooked
1979 P200, 1960 Lambretta s2, 1975 Rally 200
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Hooked
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1979 P200, 1960 Lambretta s2, 1975 Rally 200
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UTC quote
doing awesome! everything looks tight!
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
Thanks!

It is sort of like anorexia. I just wanted to salvage the bike, then have become really perfectionist. I get frustrated with it, but then it looks much better to me the next day.

It's taking so long!!
The bottom part looks pretty good in normal light.
The bottom part looks pretty good in normal light.
The trim fits perfect now.
The trim fits perfect now.
The horncast shape is a bit off.
The horncast shape is a bit off.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Found this in another MV thread. Is this correct?
Found this in another MV thread. Is this correct?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
UTC

Addicted
1968 VBB150
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Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
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UTC quote
Whats off on the horncast? I dont see it.

If it is the lines, once you primer it, you can REALLY effect the look and feel of the lines when you sand it- so beware. (and also FIX some issues, so thats good)
@orwell84 avatar
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Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
I don't see it either. Looks perfectly symmetrical.

Walking away is good. Perceptions distort when looking at something too long.
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UTC quote
X 3. Don't see it. (Aside from the paint needing to come off that race.)

Put the horn and rubber on. It will look perfect.
⚠️ Last edited by Birdsnest on UTC; edited 1 time
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
The last two are someone else's from another thread.

Mine isn't too bad. It was bent in at the bottom, and I straightened it. It looks like there's a slight taper in at the bottom I am missing, and the center is a little off.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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142 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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UTC quote
At this point, if you need to ask, you don't need to fix it Razz emoticon
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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Style Maven
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'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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UTC quote
Your horncast looks OK from here, but how about your fork stops? Let's see this view of yours where the one on the right side needs work on this one or the headset can hit the top of the legshield and mess up the trim.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
Your horncast looks OK from here, but how about your fork stops? Let's see this view of yours where the one on the right side needs work on this one or the headset can hit the top of the legshield and mess up the trim.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Sorry for the confusion. This wasn't mine. It's from this thread.

Fork Stop Reshaping

But looked like the shape of the horn cast was perfect in the photo.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
Hey my friend hjo,

I always try to function using the 80/20 or 90/10 rule, where you can get 80 percent of a task in 20 percent of the time, but the last 20 percent takes 80 percent of the time.

This helps me with the desire to make it perfect, which doesn't really exist in these lo Clap emoticon Clap emoticon Clap emoticon wer worlds.

I'll never restore a scooter for this reason. But refurbish instead.

Every scooter is unique, even when they rolled off the assembly line, so you are doing an amazing job!

You my friend are functioning at 97/3. You got this! It blows me away and is so impressive, and like I said earlier, thanks for taking me along, cause I couldn't do what you've done and are doing.

Clap emoticon Clap emoticon Clap emoticon Clap emoticon Clap emoticon
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
Rails.

I got the shape to fit. Thanks oopsclunkthud. This worked!
oopsclunkthud wrote:
they are really soft and not hard to bend

circle of wood + two blocks of wood + hammer
The shape is pretty close!

The aluminum got chewed up, but it will sand/polish out.
The shape is pretty close! The aluminum got chewed up, but it will sand/polish out.
le clamp
le clamp
With the outer one, it takes some reshaping with each rivet to match the floorboard.
With the outer one, it takes some reshaping with each rivet to match the floorboard.
This came out so well. It lines up perfectly.

I've never had a vespa with a straight floorboard. They're always chewed a bit
This came out so well. It lines up perfectly. I've never had a vespa with a straight floorboard. They're always chewed a bit
I had one of these mats, and the rails fit in the right spot. These things are treacherous. They trap water and rust the floorboard.
I had one of these mats, and the rails fit in the right spot. These things are treacherous. They trap water and rust the floorboard.
More vespa-like.
More vespa-like.
The outer top one has to fit into the trim.
The outer top one has to fit into the trim.
This is a whole other can of worms. The rails are all too long, and it's so hard to get the compound curve.

I have been clamping them with some metal behind, and tapping on them. The insides still have a gap.

This is hardest part.
This is a whole other can of worms. The rails are all too long, and it's so hard to get the compound curve. I have been clamping them with some metal behind, and tapping on them. The insides still have a gap. This is hardest part.
@orwell84 avatar
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Ossessionato
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Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
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UTC quote
That looks fantastic. Glad you got the rails to bend. I figured they might. That kind of attention to detail is all over that bike. Just….Wow.
@birdsnest avatar
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UTC quote
Got a couple goose bumps looking at the floor mat and the rails in place. Stellar!
@oopsclunkthud avatar
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Banned
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Banned
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UTC quote
At the front I've found that setting the twist first and then bending back to the line for the holes worked for me.
@cdevillasante avatar
UTC

Hooked
1979 P200, 1960 Lambretta s2, 1975 Rally 200
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
 
Hooked
@cdevillasante avatar
1979 P200, 1960 Lambretta s2, 1975 Rally 200
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
UTC quote
just did my rails not too long ago and cursing very loud helps! Its looking un believable great work!
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9507
Location: Nashville

142 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9507
Location: Nashville

142 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Cdevillasante wrote:
just did my rails not too long ago and cursing very loud helps! Its looking un believable great work!
It's true. Cussin' makes the scootin' world go 'round.
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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UTC quote
The rails. Learning.

They're not as hard as I thought.

It's similar to body work, where you think you need to use a lot of force, but not really.

They're so soft. You can work them slowly with your thumbs to get the curves on both sides.

I got the middle one here. fitting perfectly without being attached.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
This one is really strange. I have been obsessed with the tail not being straight.
This one is really strange. I have been obsessed with the tail not being straight.
So I measured and drew grid lines, and it couldn't be more perfect.
So I measured and drew grid lines, and it couldn't be more perfect.
Now it looks straight. Maybe it healed on its own.
Now it looks straight. Maybe it healed on its own.
@orwell84 avatar
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Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
I have gone through exactly the same thing many times. I think that's one of the reasons it's hard for me to finish things. As long as it's not finished than the hope remains of finding that last imperfection.
@christopher_55934 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
@christopher_55934 avatar
2007 Stella 225
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
The rails. Learning.

They're not as hard as I thought.

It's similar to body work, where you think you need to use a lot of force, but not really.

They're so soft. You can work them slowly with your thumbs to get the curves on both sides.

I got the middle one here. fitting perfectly without being attached.
I would use a laser level, scooter doesn't look like it's sitting level.
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
I would use a laser level, scooter doesn't look like it's sitting level.
I'm too cheap to buy a laser level to just use once, so I used square things and lined up with the center seam.

My garage floor is sloped for a drain, so everything sits at an angle. This must have been throwing me off visually, though.
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
I have gone through exactly the same thing many times. I think that's one of the reasons it's hard for me to finish things. As long as it's not finished than the hope remains of finding that last imperfection.
I'm getting it painted by this place that does concours quality work, so the paint can come out well, but every imperfection will get sealed in.

Scary!
@christopher_55934 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
@christopher_55934 avatar
2007 Stella 225
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
I'm getting it painted by this place that does concours quality work, so the paint can come out well, but every imperfection will get sealed in.

Scary!
You could get it your best and ask them it give it a once over to get anything you missed.
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
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UTC quote
If they do concours work, they'll either tell you what it needs before they spray or they'll take care of it. They aren't going to want their name associated with a half ass job.
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
Nightmare.

I was able to use my old floorboard for a template for all but the top holes for the rails, and used my other rally frame for those.

They were apparently much different, so the tops of the rails are way off.

Are those holes small enough to fill with body filler? I might have to weld the inner four up.

These rails are really a challenge if you don't have the holes from the factory.
The outer one worked.
The outer one worked.
So bad.
So bad.
This is about where they should be.
This is about where they should be.
At least the outer one fit right.
At least the outer one fit right.
@moto64 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
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Molto Verboso
@moto64 avatar
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
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UTC quote
You could clean the holes, put some tape on the front (lower) side, and fill with JBW. I'd put a tiny amount in and spread to seal to the rim and not over fill to minimize sanding. And then blend with glaze.
To my eye, it looks like the rails are off by the width of the tunnel flange. Is it possible that you placed the template improperly ?
It is true that some paint shops will not put their name on someone else's prep work , but there are some painters who will. Have you asked them what they expect from you and what they expect to do before spraying ?
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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Location: Nashville

142 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
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76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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UTC quote
To fill the holes...
Best would be welding them up.

Second Best would be filling them with JBWeld

Final option would be using bondo.

They are small enough that all of them will work, but there is obviously increasing levels of risk of something popping loose with each option.

Yeah, floor rails suck. No two ways about it.
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Argh. I guess I'll weld it.

One last trip to the shop for this one.

Or maybe can have the paint shop do it.

I was looking for videos about fitting those rails, and there really aren't any.
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
The rails are an absolute nightmare.

I can't get them to fit the shape of the curve. There's a gap on the inside of the curve, and I guess the original ones were stamped, so the metal is stretched on the inside.

In looking for videos, there's nothing that covers making the curve work. Just riveting them, and they'll be like "I got the shape first."

I destroyed a rail trying. But have a spare set I bought anticipating.

But spent hours this weekend, and got nowhere.

They are so soft and fragile, but not pliable for that inner curve.
Destructo.

The second set of rails (the center one here) from Scooterwest is actually better quality. 

But I have no idea how to make the upper curve fit.
Destructo. The second set of rails (the center one here) from Scooterwest is actually better quality. But I have no idea how to make the upper curve fit.
This giant threaded rod got the bearing race out easily.

Going to leave the bottom one in.
This giant threaded rod got the bearing race out easily. Going to leave the bottom one in.
The fork tube looks good.
The fork tube looks good.
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
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UTC quote
Fitting new rails is extra hard if the curve of the legshield is even slightly off.

In my experience, it helps if you start by securing the end of the rail up at the legshield and work your way back.

Be glad you didn't wait to do this until after it was painted.
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
oh yeah. It's a mess.

I wore off the primer in places, and drilled holes wrong.

I can fix all of it, but no clue how to get these things to work.

I'll try from the top and see if that works.

It's strange that the top rail holes on my other 1974 frame were so far off.

But the rails in general with the new floorboard fit different. They're somehow too long.

I think the 1974 had shorter rails, to fit the number plate. If the ones I got were to fit, they wouldn't hit the glove box, but would hit the plate.
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UTC quote
replace the lower bearing race now. If the frame was blasted then race is likely damaged and it's easy to get to at this point.

I have a tool I can lone you for knocking the old one out and a fitting to guide the new one as it's pulled/hammered into place.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
ok! I'll do that!

I have new races, they came in a set from FA Italia, and look quite nice.
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
I got very frustrated with this, and left it for a couple of weeks.

But back to it.
This part popped out easily with the tool Oops Clunk Thud lent me.
This part popped out easily with the tool Oops Clunk Thud lent me.
Good to replace this.
Good to replace this.
I should have gone this route in the first place.
I should have gone this route in the first place.
This look right?
This look right?
Much better.
Much better.
The rails are shorter on the 1974. I guess because there's the number plate on that one just above the rails.
The rails are shorter on the 1974. I guess because there's the number plate on that one just above the rails.
I am obsessing over these gaps. But I think they're impossible to mold perfectly.
I am obsessing over these gaps. But I think they're impossible to mold perfectly.
The tail is all straight now.
The tail is all straight now.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@finyoshi avatar
UTC

Addicted
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, VR-One 228 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
Joined: UTC
Posts: 540
Location: Finland
 
Addicted
@finyoshi avatar
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, VR-One 228 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
Joined: UTC
Posts: 540
Location: Finland
UTC quote
It's no surprise that the floor rails did not fit out of the box.

In my GL build I had the holes lined up on two out of six rails. Others had to be cut and re-drilled to make them fit. Of course the shape was also just a starting point.

Good job!
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