OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
The lobo ones are "correct"

Here's the modified stainless
You have a lathe at home!

Those look really nice.

That's my dream.

Are the Lobo ones really correct? It's hard to know.
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UTC quote
Mine are smooth on top, but signs of rear crash bars being mounted, so may have been swapped out. The washer is a holdover from the crash bars
Yup, need to swap these out for stainless
Yup, need to swap these out for stainless
OP
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I have a whole set of blue switches!

I didn't realize I had them all.

The plastic used in the 1970s is a trip. It turned green over time, but cleans up, and polishes to a mirror finish.

The two for the turn signal connectors are missing the metal posts that connect to the cowls, but I think the post is identical to the plastic one in the brake switch. So I can just fabricate new ones out of a brass rod. Just rounded at the top, and a groove for a circlip.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Christmas.

I'm amazed at Pascoli. They have all these parts I thought I would never find.

I prefer to buy from local shops, but got almost all the ones I need now.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
I would never know this wasn't original.
I would never know this wasn't original.
The cork fuel cap, grommet for the tail light at the frame, and cover for the Femsa. <3
The cork fuel cap, grommet for the tail light at the frame, and cover for the Femsa. <3
I guess I'll take this apart to clean the inside. Hoping the rivets aren't impossible to replace.
I guess I'll take this apart to clean the inside. Hoping the rivets aren't impossible to replace.
Blue switches, after spending a day soaking in peroxide and sunlight. Definitely lighter. Apparently this can erase all yellowing.
Blue switches, after spending a day soaking in peroxide and sunlight. Definitely lighter. Apparently this can erase all yellowing.
These gray thing are the right shape on one side, and too long on the other. Easy to trim, if that's what they need.
These gray thing are the right shape on one side, and too long on the other. Easy to trim, if that's what they need.
OP
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
One more part.
Foamy pad thing
Foamy pad thing
I have one of those springs around somewhere.

This stuff just slides metal on paint. Amazing.
I have one of those springs around somewhere. This stuff just slides metal on paint. Amazing.
The vintage lock
The vintage lock
The panel fitting is pretty funky. But the pad seems to hit everywhere the two pieces touch.
The panel fitting is pretty funky. But the pad seems to hit everywhere the two pieces touch.
I got an extra Rally badge, bc they were like $10. It makes mine look bad.
I got an extra Rally badge, bc they were like $10. It makes mine look bad.
My badge painting skills.
My badge painting skills.
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UTC quote
*Snickers at resto painting pic*

What did you use to stick that foam on the glovebox door?
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Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
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Molto Verboso
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'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
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UTC quote
Wow ! That is really looking great, hjo. All the little imperfections just sort of vanish under the overall appearance and I know you will be very proud to ride this Rally. With a big grin.
OP
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Birdsnest wrote:
*Snickers at resto painting pic*

What did you use to stick that foam on the glovebox door?
Just rubber cement and a q tip.

I watched a video on how to do it. You apply to both sides, then let them dry. Then they're pretty workable, and bond really well when you press them together.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
I guess the little diagonal spring is for this. I've only had one bike that still had the tools/pouch, but never knew what the spring was for.
I guess the little diagonal spring is for this. I've only had one bike that still had the tools/pouch, but never knew what the spring was for.
But it looked like thls
But it looked like thls
This shows crash damage, but cleaned up a lot. Seems worth keeping for the mark.
This shows crash damage, but cleaned up a lot. Seems worth keeping for the mark.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
⚠️ Last edited by hjo on UTC; edited 1 time
@moto64 avatar
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Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
"I guess I'll take this apart to clean the inside. Hoping the rivets aren't impossible to replace."
Maybe floor rail rivets ?
OP
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Moto64 wrote:
"I guess I'll take this apart to clean the inside. Hoping the rivets aren't impossible to replace."
Maybe floor rail rivets ?
I don't see the exact ones for sale. Like SIP and Scooter Center have ones for other models, and a repro horn complete.

I think a hardware store would have them. Something like this.

It wouldn't be possible to get both sides perfect, but could use rounded heads and peen the back.
Something like this.
Something like this.
Like these are close, but different shape.
Like these are close, but different shape.
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UTC quote
if the horn is in working order, it seems the chrome is in good shape... I would NOT take it apart.

metal polish and some swabs should be enough.
the existing rivet heads should polish up with a felt drum in the dremel.
OP
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
if the horn is in working order, it seems the chrome is in good shape... I would NOT take it apart.

metal polish and some swabs should be enough.
the existing rivet heads should polish up with a felt drum in the dremel.
I think you're right.

I cleaned it a bit more with the dremel and felt. Not sure if you can tell. I can finish the exterior, and always go back to it. It's an easy project once the bike is together.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
The whole back looked like the area around the screw here.
The whole back looked like the area around the screw here.
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
I think you're right.

I cleaned it a bit more with the dremel and felt. Not sure if you can tell. I can finish the exterior, and always go back to it. It's an easy project once the bike is together.
Was going to say the exact same thing. You can do wonders with a handful of qtips and some metal polish. A good way to avoid rending of garments and gnashing of teeth.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
That's a lot of surfaces to clean!!
OP
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I love spending a million hours on things that I could replace for $10.

But these things are so rare. The 1970s blue switches, that were never reproduced.

Restoring them. Almost there.
The yellowed plastic turned green, bc it was blue.
The yellowed plastic turned green, bc it was blue.
Put them in a plastic bag full of peroxide in the sun on my roof.

The UV light and peroxide bleaches them.
Put them in a plastic bag full of peroxide in the sun on my roof. The UV light and peroxide bleaches them.
I wish my apartment had this view.
I wish my apartment had this view.
Or this one
Or this one
It worked well. The yellow went away, but it's damaged I guess, so it turned white. Ot maybe this works best on white plastic.
It worked well. The yellow went away, but it's damaged I guess, so it turned white. Ot maybe this works best on white plastic.
After a little sanding, they are almost there. All these little crevices.
After a little sanding, they are almost there. All these little crevices.
They polish up to almost a mirror finish. This was the least bad. The cowl was on this side, so it didn't fry in the sun for 30 years, but I think I can get them all to look like this. Just 20 hours later.
They polish up to almost a mirror finish. This was the least bad. The cowl was on this side, so it didn't fry in the sun for 30 years, but I think I can get them all to look like this. Just 20 hours later.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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UTC quote
It's not my style of project, but your otaku level of attention to detail here continues to amaze me and I'm definitely learning some tricks along the way.

I'd never in a million years have thought to use peroxide and sunlight to bleach out the yellowing of plastic, for example.
OP
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
It's not my style of project, but your otaku level of attention to detail here continues to amaze me and I'm definitely learning some tricks along the way.
It's a curse. I started out just wanting it to run. Then get more and more OCD.

This one especially, bc it was like 100% original, but completely destroyed by the elements. So it's like this heroic project to save its originality.

The other Rally, I think I might be a bit less obsessive. It's mostly there, and all the parts are available in good quality, but not original. Which is different, if that makes sense.
I'm really impressed with the quality of parts you can get. These are RMS, and most of the others seem to be FA Italia and Pascoli. 

All are higher quality than parts you could get like 5 years ago.
I'm really impressed with the quality of parts you can get. These are RMS, and most of the others seem to be FA Italia and Pascoli. All are higher quality than parts you could get like 5 years ago.
I got a ton of wiring harness parts. Everything comes in 10 feet, so I have enough for two. But have that other Rally, so I'll use it.
I got a ton of wiring harness parts. Everything comes in 10 feet, so I have enough for two. But have that other Rally, so I'll use it.
I hope this is right. It's PVC tubing. Sold as wire insulation. It looks like the original harness.

It's flexible, but not super flexible. Not rubbery. I measured with the old one, and got the closest sizes.
I hope this is right. It's PVC tubing. Sold as wire insulation. It looks like the original harness. It's flexible, but not super flexible. Not rubbery. I measured with the old one, and got the closest sizes.
The label. If PVC-5 means something.
The label. If PVC-5 means something.
It's non-shrink, the most basic stuff they had.
It's non-shrink, the most basic stuff they had.
Old harness and new. It seems close. The old one is so gross, it's hard to tell. It smells like mold. I think that whole bike must have been underwater at some point.

The PVC is slightly less rubbery, but I'm sure it's much different material than they u
Old harness and new. It seems close. The old one is so gross, it's hard to tell. It smells like mold. I think that whole bike must have been underwater at some point. The PVC is slightly less rubbery, but I'm sure it's much different material than they u
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UTC quote
I ran miles of that sleeving when I rewired my bus. It's good stuff and holds up well.
OP
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
I ran miles of that sleeving when I rewired my bus. It's good stuff and holds up well.
Oh good! It's from McMaster Carr. They seem to be high quality stuff. I hope it holds up.
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
Oh good! It's from McMaster Carr. They seem to be high quality stuff. I hope it holds up.
That's where I got it. Love that place. Shipping is really fast too.
OP
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Not much progress.
The bolts that Oops Clunk Thud made in the lathe.
The bolts that Oops Clunk Thud made in the lathe.
All four without damaging the paint.
All four without damaging the paint.
This is such a relief. I had no idea if the slot for the spring in the new floorboard would work.
This is such a relief. I had no idea if the slot for the spring in the new floorboard would work.
And I got all the wires. :) Found a place that sold all the colors but the striped ones by the foot. This is great, bc there were 17 different wires. Some are same color in two gauges.
And I got all the wires. :) Found a place that sold all the colors but the striped ones by the foot. This is great, bc there were 17 different wires. Some are same color in two gauges.
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Hooked
'71 Sprint Veloce
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UTC quote
Oh no…I'm current on this thread now! But I want moooooore!

I'm shopping for my first vintage scoot right now and I've spent the last two nights reading the entirety of this thread and I'm amazed and inspired by what you've done, hgo. Thank you for documenting your restoration and taking such high quality photos and explaining your thought process. From a guy who's always wanted to rebuild a bike like this from the ground up (the welding part was never in my dream scenario though!) it's really motivating and been a blast to follow. Can't wait to see the final assembly and hear her fire up for the first time! Keep up the awesome work!
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Lucky
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UTC quote
Did you ever install the wear plates that go between the centerstand and the paint? I can't see them in the photo of the spring.
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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UTC quote
^
This and brackets seem a bit short to me. Where is the stand resting when it's on its feet?? Should be "hitting" the brackets and not the floor…
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
brok3nr0b0t wrote:
Oh no…I'm current on this thread now! But I want moooooore!
Thank you for the compliments!

and chandlerman and SaFiS for the catch.

That bracket is wrong. And looks like it could dent the frame.

The stand does hit the bracket, but close to the edge, and the longer bracket distributes weight so the floorboard doesn't bend.

I need to replace.

Lol. This is why the project is taking 18 months.

But I guess I can do the wiring, which I should do next.
The old bracket and the new one. It should be much longer.
The old bracket and the new one. It should be much longer.
I did install the spring plates. They are a little weird, too. They only mount to one of the stand bolts.
I did install the spring plates. They are a little weird, too. They only mount to one of the stand bolts.
I have this other set of brackets, but they're from a Bajaj, I think.
I have this other set of brackets, but they're from a Bajaj, I think.
oooh. Scooterwest has original NOS ones.
oooh. Scooterwest has original NOS ones.
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UTC quote
Why not use your old ones?? On my T5 I cleaned them, used a rust stabilizer and painted them the same color (original) as the fork and hubs (Alluminio Ruote 983)…
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Is this a good battery?

It's very expensive, but looks like the right size, and it's the new type that doesn't leak acid or have water levels.

Do these last longer? Vespa batteries don't generally last very long.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
The old style that drips acid.
The old style that drips acid.
OP
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
Why not use your old ones?? On my T5 I cleaned them, used a rust stabilizer and painted them the same color (original) as the fork and hubs (Alluminio Ruote 983)…
I'll try that!

They're fine. Just crusty and the plating is worn away. I could just paint them silver.

I've never seen two springs like that!

They cleaned up ok. They were mostly just really dirty
Do they need paint? I can't tell if the plating is still there.
Do they need paint? I can't tell if the plating is still there.
The grease from the stand is very hard to remove.
The grease from the stand is very hard to remove.
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Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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UTC quote
If they are original and fit better, I would use them. One of the first things I did on my Stella was to grease the stand, then greased it a couple more times as I used it. It wouldn't retract all the way. It's gonna look like crap anyway if you ride it.
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Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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UTC quote
I'd rock those as is, they don't look awful. they're under the bike and nobody will see them. they're better quality and correct fit from the jump.

dual springs started in the mid-ish 80's. my T5 has the same set up.
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UTC quote
do you have the metal cover, rubber insert and metal strap with wingnut for holding the battery in place?

I like the way the black plastic case looks but suspect the other will last longer. both are vented I run a sealed battery inside an empty black battery box, but those boxes are not available any more.

http://guzzino.com/baboxb4it.html
OP
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
do you have the metal cover, rubber insert and metal strap with wingnut for holding the battery in place?

I like the way the black plastic case looks but suspect the other will last longer. both are vented I run a sealed battery inside an empty black battery box, but those boxes are not available any more.

http://guzzino.com/baboxb4it.html
I don't have those, but was just ordering them.

I realized that the Scooterwest one is out of stock, and I'd have to order that one from Italy.

The batteries they have for rallys are 10ah or 12ah. Some go higher. Does this matter?
Can I run something like this for the moment? I mostly need to make sure the lights are working. It's sealed, so I could put it sideways.
Can I run something like this for the moment? I mostly need to make sure the lights are working. It's sealed, so I could put it sideways.
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UTC quote
on the '74 Rally everything runs off the battery (except the ignition). largest load is the turn signals, followed by the headlight.

I tend to run with the headlight off unless it's dark or I want the added visibility. LED tail/brake light can help. LED turn signals helps a lot but you need a flasher that will work with them.

10Ah I think was the norm and with normal bulbs could run the lights for like 30min or an hour (whatever DOT required in "74). If you can lower the draw, you can get away with a smaller battery. Lower limit would be to bridge the time spent idling at a traffic light.
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
I'll try that!

They're fine. Just crusty and the plating is worn away. I could just paint them silver.

I've never seen two springs like that!

They cleaned up ok. They were mostly just really dirty
Use the OG ones. I cleaned up and re-used them on both my VBB and GL. They looked bad, but some wire wheel work, some ospho, and some paint and they were good-to-go.
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
I tend to run with the headlight off unless it's dark or I want the added visibility. LED tail/brake light can help. LED turn signals helps a lot but you need a flasher that will work with them.
I had a 1974 Super, and it had the same electrical system. Super problematic. Everything running off the battery. And the battery would die on mine if it ran with the lights on.

It struggled to power the turn signals. It makes sense those are the biggest draw.

I am going to try LED lights. Hopefully that helps. They use such little power.

I got this thing. Not sure how to mount it. It has a slot, and I guess I can just make a U-shaped bracket for it.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
Little pieces.
These are good! Ricambi.
These are good! Ricambi.
I don't know how much plating survived brushing and buffing. So coated them in beeswax and baked it on. Hopefully it keeps them from rusting.
I don't know how much plating survived brushing and buffing. So coated them in beeswax and baked it on. Hopefully it keeps them from rusting.
I'm starting to have a tool collection.
I'm starting to have a tool collection.
Love this one.
Love this one.
Notches. I destroyed my first attempt and had to replace it.
Notches. I destroyed my first attempt and had to replace it.
I am really worried about this. There are a couple of spots where the paint is going to scratch.
I am really worried about this. There are a couple of spots where the paint is going to scratch.
Is this just how these things are designed?

Can they be adjusted?
Is this just how these things are designed? Can they be adjusted?
Maybe the bends in these are off?
Maybe the bends in these are off?
It's going to scratch here, too.
It's going to scratch here, too.
Gloss.
Gloss.
It sits straight, just off the slightst amount.
It sits straight, just off the slightst amount.
I need a better photo of what the wiring harness looks like at the rectifier. I have all the wiring parts now.

This is the only before photo I have of this part.
I need a better photo of what the wiring harness looks like at the rectifier. I have all the wiring parts now. This is the only before photo I have of this part.
I think this is right.

There are to areas of wiring sheathing. The one from the frame ends, and a bunch of wires split off there, then there's another at the end held in with a clip.
I think this is right. There are to areas of wiring sheathing. The one from the frame ends, and a bunch of wires split off there, then there's another at the end held in with a clip.
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
Starting to make the wiring. It's not as hard as I thought. With the old harness and diagram.

It's funny. The turn signals were such an add-on that Piaggio used blue wires for three different things that have different functions.
- the CDI
- the turn signals
- brake light

On the diagram, one is more aqua blue. So I'll add that.

My connectors haven't arrived yet, but all the other parts have.

It's fun, and really not that complicated. Everything connects to something else. and the old harness makes measuring easy.

I'm adding an inch or two to all the wires. Can't hurt. Can always trim.
The junction box.
The junction box.
For the joins, heat shrink? Piaggio used electrical tape, that gets all gross.
For the joins, heat shrink? Piaggio used electrical tape, that gets all gross.
Then on the ends, I'm guessing nylon zip ties, and maybe heat shrink.
Then on the ends, I'm guessing nylon zip ties, and maybe heat shrink.
Horn before.
Horn before.
Horn after. Got it pretty well cleaned up without having to un-rivet.
Horn after. Got it pretty well cleaned up without having to un-rivet.
I hope the quality of the wires is good. They seem ok. Thicker insulation than the originals. They're from a place that had all the colors. :)
I hope the quality of the wires is good. They seem ok. Thicker insulation than the originals. They're from a place that had all the colors. :)
@rallygeek avatar
UTC

Hooked
Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 403
Location: Melbourne
 
Hooked
@rallygeek avatar
Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 403
Location: Melbourne
UTC quote
Careful with the thickness of the wiring harness as it needs to make it through some narrow passages in the front end.
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
Rallygeek wrote:
Careful with the thickness of the wiring harness as it needs to make it through some narrow passages in the front end.
I hope it works. If not, I'll have to get different wire. It was hard to find a place that had all the wire colors, and most sell in 20 foot spools. This one sold by the foot.
They are noticeably thicker. New and old.

Same gauge wire, just more insulation.
They are noticeably thicker. New and old. Same gauge wire, just more insulation.
These are the headset ones. Old wires. 9 in two harnesses. And 3 are 14 gauge. 

The new wire might not work.
These are the headset ones. Old wires. 9 in two harnesses. And 3 are 14 gauge. The new wire might not work.
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3018
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3018
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
It's worth trying. I use minder wire to pull it through and lubricate cable sheaths with warm water and dish soap. I think most wiring harnesses have connectors already crimped on. Pulling wiring without them and crimping them on after makes it a lot easier.
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