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Where can you find the Vespa terminals and connectors?
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sdjohn wrote:
Where can you find the Vespa terminals and connectors?
this is mostly focused on Japanese motorcycles but most of the terminal sizes are the same.
http://vintageconnections.com
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oopsclunkthud wrote:
this is mostly focused on Japanese motorcycles but most of the terminal sizes are the same.
http://vintageconnections.com
I love those guys, I will see about the small rings for the junction blocks, I hope they have them.
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It seems to be ok. With six wires, it's not much wider than it was.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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oopsclunkthud wrote:
this is mostly focused on Japanese motorcycles but most of the terminal sizes are the same.
http://vintageconnections.com
This site is amazing! I'm definitely using it next time. They have all the colors.

I just bought this thing. It comes with the tool and a bunch of connectors and their plastic covers. It doesn't have them all, though.

It's such a pain to buy these! You'll find one, and they only sell in quantities of 1000.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Looks like the Vintage Connecters wire is the same thickness. This is 18 gauge.
Looks like the Vintage Connecters wire is the same thickness. This is 18 gauge.
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Where can you find the Vespa terminals and connectors?
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I got this crimp tool from vintage connectors a few years back but the current ones they have look good at a fraction of the price

also, when I lay out the arms of the harness I tie each one with unwaxed floss every foot or so. This keeps things aligned as the cover slides on.

https://modernvespa.com/forum/post1753169#1753169
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My only warning about the random Amazon terminals is that they tend to be made out of VERY thin metal, so they're relatively flimsy. If you compare thickness of the metal, you'll probably find it's about half the thickness of the original connectors.

Ironically, it makes it easier to get good a crimp because you're not moving the crimper around, potentially pulling the wires out wrestling to get it fully crimped, but then they don't hold up over time.

Just one more thing to be aware of.

And if you don't have an automatic wire stripper, this is the time to pick one up. Not only does it make stripping the wire ends SUPER EASY, but you can set it so you get the exact right amount stripped so you can make perfect crimps every time.

That link is to the cheap-o one that I have, but it's been great and I've stripped hundreds of wire ends with it.
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chandlerman wrote:
And if you don't have an automatic wire stripper, this is the time to pick one up. Not only does it make stripping the wire ends SUPER EASY, but you can set it so you get the exact right amount stripped so you can make perfect crimps every time.

That link is to the cheap-o one that I have, but it's been great and I've stripped hundreds of wire ends with it.
I've used nothing but these for 30 years. come to think of it my dad had them to so used those for the prior 20.
https://www.stanleytools.com/product/84-213/5-wire-strippercutter
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Is the automatic one better than the one that says the gauges?
This kind?
This kind?
Got all the wires going to the battery side.
Got all the wires going to the battery side.
Starting to look like a harness.

Waiting on a light blue wire for the main harness (brake), but I understand it all. :) This should work!
Starting to look like a harness. Waiting on a light blue wire for the main harness (brake), but I understand it all. :) This should work!
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I don't trust strippers

I prefer a sharp knife or pair of scissors to cut the insulation. Usually it's just two cuts on the opposite sides and then the rest just tears up when the cable end is bent or pulled with fingernails.
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The automatic one works on any wire until it's too thick for it to handle, which is going to be more than anything you're using it on. The combination of speed/convenience (it's about as much effort as using a stapler) combined with the ability to set the amount stripped off really did it for me, and I have a great pair of manual strippers I've had for over twenty years and which I still use if the automatic isn't close at hand.
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Almost have this!!

I keep needing parts, then having to wait a couple of days.

So this is it, minus two wires, and three sections of cover. I had to guess at the sizes. Then tape! And install.

Having the old one was really helpful for measuring the lengths.

And seems like it will work. All the same wires are there. It's not that mystical when you assemble it all.

Guess I'll wait to throw in the fork and engine until the harness is in. It seems really hard to feed it with the fork in.
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Looking real pretty. I believe all parts of this scooter will be nicer after the restoration than the moment it originally left the factory Clap emoticon
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hjo wrote:
I keep needing parts, then having to wait a couple of days.
Progress slows asymptotically as you approach the finish line. It's like some sort of weird time dilation effect. By the end, you'll have multiple orders in shipping and be re-ordering the small/cheap parts which are taking too long to arrive and effectively turn it into a Snail Race between UPS, FedEx, and the USPS.
hjo wrote:
Guess I'll wait to throw in the fork and engine until the harness is in. It seems really hard to feed it with the fork in.
Wise move here. It's MUCH easier to do on just the bare frame. You can flip it whichever way gives you the easiest access for any given run. Do the cables before engine & fork, too.
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"Last 10% takes 90% of the time."

Keep the faith!
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Birdsnest wrote:
"Last 10% takes 90% of the time."

Keep the faith!
I like the original, "The first 90% of a project takes 90% of the time. The last 10% takes the other 90%." ROFL emoticon
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I was tempted to throw in the fork and engine this weekend, but seems better to get the wiring in first.

On the plus side, I got the crimp tool and connectors. And they work really well.

Even with two wires going in to one connector, which happens a lot in this harness.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
On the old harness, all the ground wires connect to each other, and the connection is bare.

Does this connect to the frame? It would be below the plastic lid that covers the bridge
On the old harness, all the ground wires connect to each other, and the connection is bare. Does this connect to the frame? It would be below the plastic lid that covers the bridge
It was so gross.

Maybe it wraps around the latch hardware?
It was so gross. Maybe it wraps around the latch hardware?
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On my 50 Special harness that ground wire junction was backed over and tucked inside the insulating tubes.
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Looking good!

Harness and cables first! Then everything else...
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Rallygeek wrote:
On my 50 Special harness that ground wire junction was backed over and tucked inside the insulating tubes.
I've seen it folded over and tucked into the tube, and sticking out to the side, but in either case it should be covered just to keep it clean. it does not clamp to ground in the middle of the frame.

I normally fold it back along one of the branches of wires wrap it in tape or shrink wrap, and then put the housing over it.
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Quote:
it does not clamp to ground in the middle of the frame.
Thank you!!
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That nexus of black ground wires…on my 200, they were all twisted together with a big glob of solder and folded into the insulation. I think it was factory. Uh-Guh-Lee, but effective.
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sdjohn wrote:
I love those guys, I will see about the small rings for the junction blocks, I hope they have them.
This is why standard wire harnesses from the likes of Grabor totally suck because they use huge generic eyelet connectors for the junction wires. It's so irritating to have to clip and grind each one down to a usable size.
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nomadinsiam wrote:
This is why standard wire harnesses from the likes of Grabor totally suck because they use huge generic eyelet connectors for the junction wires. It's so irritating to have to clip and grind each one down to a usable size.
I have just bought one replacement wiring harness. It was a Prima one from Scooterworks for an American market p200. And it was really nice. Perfect quality.
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One 1974 American market Rally 200 wiring harness. New.

This wasn't as hard as I expected. Just finding all the parts. It's beautiful.

Seems like it should work. I measured several times.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
The joins are so nice. I am not sure whether to tape or heat shrink. This one seems like one short piece of heat shrink should work.
The joins are so nice. I am not sure whether to tape or heat shrink. This one seems like one short piece of heat shrink should work.
So pretty
So pretty
Turn signal wires.
Turn signal wires.
Hopefully three of these fit in the places where you can't find grommets
Hopefully three of these fit in the places where you can't find grommets
I got this nice 3m fabric electrical tape from watching a youtube video about making harnesses. It doesn't turn to slime. 

I think I'll add like a short bit of heat shrink to the ends of the tubes, but other harnesses I see don't have those.
I got this nice 3m fabric electrical tape from watching a youtube video about making harnesses. It doesn't turn to slime. I think I'll add like a short bit of heat shrink to the ends of the tubes, but other harnesses I see don't have those.
If anyone ever stumbles on this, and is making a 1974 American loom, this diagram took some digging to find, but it's correct.
If anyone ever stumbles on this, and is making a 1974 American loom, this diagram took some digging to find, but it's correct.
The old one is really gross, and smells like mildew. But super helpful for reference.
The old one is really gross, and smells like mildew. But super helpful for reference.
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hjo wrote:
I have just bought one replacement wiring harness. It was a Prima one from Scooterworks for an American market p200. And it was really nice. Perfect quality.
That's good to know.

I think if I ever wire one of bikes ever again, I'm going try to make it myself. It looks like a fun project.
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!make this a wiki page please!

on the spider junction at the back I normally use tape. the other junctions I either overlap the housings and leave it at that or put shrink tubing over the junction.

I would not put shrink tube on the ends, the extra bulk can get in the way and it doesn't look as clean.
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Clap emoticon Clap emoticon Clap emoticon

Great job!!!
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oopsclunkthud wrote:
!make this a wiki page please!

Yes! It was hard to find info on this.
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FINYoshi wrote:
I don't trust strippers
How about pole dancers?
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Maybe someone knows.

I can't find info on the Sipea switch.

My new one is slightly different. It has five poles. The old had four.

Pole numbers:
New – 16, 16, 30/51, 15/54, blank
Old – 16, 16, 15, 30

Two of the wire connectors are larger gauge. And two of the wires are larger gauge (from the battery, to the switch, to the fuse box).

The other two are a ground, and a purple wire that goes to the stator, which connects to the ground on the CDI, it looks like.

My first guess:
- the two larger gauge ones (the 16) cut off the ignition
- the other two go into the battery
- there's an extra pole that is probably going to an electric starter, that I can ignore
The red goes to the battery and fuse, purple goes to stator
The red goes to the battery and fuse, purple goes to stator
I guess on this bike, there's no kill switch on the handlebar. So it's just the key under the seat?
I guess on this bike, there's no kill switch on the handlebar. So it's just the key under the seat?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
⚠️ Last edited by hjo on UTC; edited 1 time
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I found this one an Italian car forum.

aside: these vintage message boards are amazing for web searches. I found one from 2014 that led me to the DIN standard 72552
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_72552

So new poles:
16 - battery+ from ignition switch
16 - battery+ from ignition switch or from ballast resistor to coil and starter motor
30/51 - Common contact
15/54 - Flasher unit in
INT - this must be the one that's out

Old one:
16 - battery+ from ignition switch
16 - battery+ from ignition switch or from ballast resistor to coil and starter motor
15: battery+ from ignition switch or flasher unit in
30: from battery+ direct (or main terminal)
INT: This had no terminal

I am not sure how this works, though!!

So I guess the 16 ones are battery?
Or one of the 16s goes to the coil?
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I the original I think it does two things.

Off:
The two leads from the battery and back to the fuse block are open
The lead from the ignition and the ground are closed

On:
The two leads from the battery and back to the fuse block are closed
The lead from the ignition and the ground are open

make two diagrams of the switch pole locations and test all connections between them in on and off positions.

then pick the ones that match what needs to happen.
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This sounds right.

It looks like, if the Vespa diagram is accurate, the battery ones are at the bottom of the switch, and labeled 16.

I hope this new switch has the same internal workings.

I just kind of assumed it did, bc it has the same key and ring, and just one extra terminal.

These DIN descriptions are confusing. They all sound the same.

But I'm guessing the switch just acts like you describe. It makes or breaks a circuit. So one circuit breaks, and one opens in each position.
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Grade school science experiment.

So the switch works fine. There are two sets of connectors. They both open when the key turns. I'm hoping this is right.

I checked the old switch, and I don't have the key, but both sets appear to be off when the key is off.

I'm not sure how turning off a ground from the stator would kill the engine, but I hope it works!

Amazing that the bulb from the 1970s still works.
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Wiring!
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Random grommet collection worked
Random grommet collection worked
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The bbq rack bracket is p style, but maybe ok
The bbq rack bracket is p style, but maybe ok
The only issue. The wire for the ignition was too short. But easy to make an extension
The only issue. The wire for the ignition was too short. But easy to make an extension
So all cables go on the left, except clutch, right?
So all cables go on the left, except clutch, right?
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throttle right too.
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@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
throttle right too.
do you know if they go on the front or rear of the lock? does it matter?
@birdsnest avatar
UTC

Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vbc vmb
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8158
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
@birdsnest avatar
VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vbc vmb
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8158
Location: Hustletown, TX
UTC quote
hjo wrote:
do you know if they go on the front or rear of the lock? does it matter?
I believe it goes in front.
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