OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
Off to blast and powder coat (silver parts).

The shop gave a recommendation for a welder I will check out.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@grandpanate avatar
UTC

Hooked
'71 Rally 180,'81 P200, 1979 Vespa 90(125), 2023 Ducati Scrambler Pro Stealth
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Location: Tempe, Arizona
 
Hooked
@grandpanate avatar
'71 Rally 180,'81 P200, 1979 Vespa 90(125), 2023 Ducati Scrambler Pro Stealth
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UTC quote
Looking good! Love following these types of threads!
@orwell84 avatar
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Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
The spot welders that did the factory welds were likely beasts that hung from girders by chains. Modern shops have smaller versions that are really expensive and some might have some old school types. Smart to farm it out if you are feeling out of your depth and keep your project rolling. Getting the yips and quitting on the home stretch happens to many people who lose their mo. Sometimes it's just worth the money or the beer you buy to get it done. I burned up tons of stuff learning and occasionally still do. Sometimes I'm in the zone but other days it just all goes to shit, especially when I'm nervous and thinking...my precious...
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
The powder coating place recommended this place.

https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/custom-metal-manufacturing-company-belmont?select=ejNnNApwbJY1auDeIebBEg

It's like this kind of shop.

Still going to practice a bit more on the mig welder.

My big concern with the welder is that they won't be familiar, and would require a lot of explanation. Maybe it's kind of self explanatory.

But doing it myself would require buying a 220v spot welder I use once. And very possible I could mess up the project.
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@orwell84 avatar
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Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
I think you'll be ok. The spot welds are pretty straightforward and they will know how to use it. My 73 bus was assembled the same way by people with huge spot welders before the robots came. Trust me, I have the 220 version of that spot welder and it would suck ass on that thick tunnel metal. It might make a dimple and some of them may even stick a little bit but your money is better spent having pros do it with a real machine.
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
It looks like they do some more delicate type work. Hopefully they can do seamless welds on the replacement sheets.

I can collect photos and make notes.
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
Watching this. The spot welder is super heavy duty.

One from Harbor Frieght or Home Depot seems like bad idea.

youtube.com/watch?v=trG5-15i9_E

Someone posted a video of a master welder replacing a legshield with tig welding. I can't find it!
@orwell84 avatar
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Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
Worst case scenario, you might get a little distortion where the legshield is welded but likely not much. It's thick metal and has a lot of shape stamped in that will resist warping. Maybe a bit of hammer and dolly work at the most.
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@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
A little progress. Got all the parts to rebuild the front fork/link/axle.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Zippy 1s. It does seem like these may be discontinued. The manufacture date on these ones was 2017. Which is halfway in to their recommended lifespan. But they look fine!
Zippy 1s. It does seem like these may be discontinued. The manufacture date on these ones was 2017. Which is halfway in to their recommended lifespan. But they look fine!
Parts.
Parts.
This is such a beautiful piece of engineering.
This is such a beautiful piece of engineering.
Cleaned up old parts. I got replacements for some of these, but going to use the original ones wherever I have them. They have patina, but maybe that's good?
Cleaned up old parts. I got replacements for some of these, but going to use the original ones wherever I have them. They have patina, but maybe that's good?
With replacement parts, like this one for the front shock, they work, but aren't identical. The old ones seem better, even though they look old.
With replacement parts, like this one for the front shock, they work, but aren't identical. The old ones seem better, even though they look old.
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Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
Cheering for you here. Can't wait to see how stuff looks coming back from the welder.

As for hardware, I guess it depends on fit and quality. A lot of my bus stuff I just get really clean, especially the threads and soak them in Ospho. I make sure threaded inserts, nuts etc are all clean and sometimes a little WD-40 depending on where it is. Torqued bolts I sometimes replace. You can tell by feel when tightening if they are no longer good.
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
I like the old hardware. I got it all very clean with electrolysis. Was thinking of replating with zinc, but it's very complicated and toxic.

I think I'll just lightly coat with beeswax.
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
Back from blasting.

The rust is so insidious. There's still a bit left in pits, and like along the horn cast. They recommended blasting again when the welding is done. I hope that's not too much blasting.

The metal looks better than I expected, though.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Some rust where the horn cast meets.
Some rust where the horn cast meets.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Black spring with a bit of a texture.
Black spring with a bit of a texture.
Home
Home
Little bits of rust. Wire brush? Will this grow?
Little bits of rust. Wire brush? Will this grow?
The silver I chose looks totally generic and nondescript. But clean? It might grow on me. It's like a semi-matte finish, and was very close to the Piaggio color.
The silver I chose looks totally generic and nondescript. But clean? It might grow on me. It's like a semi-matte finish, and was very close to the Piaggio color.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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67 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
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UTC quote
I'd hit that rust with Ospho. Galvanize it, which you should do anyway, and go on.
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
Can I put epoxy primer over Ospho?
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
Can I put epoxy primer over Ospho?
Yup. I did Ospho, then DTM Epoxy primer, then high-build primer, then paint when I did my GL.

It turned out better than I had any right to expect.
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
I'll take pictures in the daylight. There's still quite a bit of rust (or rust discoloration) in spots. It really abraded the surface, too. the texture is rough. but there are pits the sand didn't quite reach.

I was thinking I might epoxy the areas on the frame that don't need metal work, but not sure yet. The blast/powder coat place suggested to just do the work, then lightly clean it up with a quick blast after.

I have to epoxy the inside parts of the frame.
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
I'll get some Ospho!

The silver parts are growing on me.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
There's a lot of pitting on the fan cover but the shroud covers it.
There's a lot of pitting on the fan cover but the shroud covers it.
Kind of set in place, but coming along.
Kind of set in place, but coming along.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@birdsnest avatar
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Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vbc vmb
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Not So Moderator
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UTC quote
Engine looks amazing!
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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UTC quote
The vapor blasting worked out well!
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
These new wheel bearings come sealed. The old ones aren't.

Do you just remove the seals?
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@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
These new wheel bearings come sealed. The old ones aren't.

Do you just remove the seals?
Nope, I embrace the technological improvements since 1974.
@christopher_55934 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
@christopher_55934 avatar
2007 Stella 225
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
Nope, I embrace the technological improvements since 1974.
Is there a grease zerk in the center? I've pulled inside seals and left the outside seal.
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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67 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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67 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
Is there a grease zerk in the center? I've pulled inside seals and left the outside seal.
The original one is still there, but I left the interior dry. I'm running a GPS for speedo, so no speedo gear, and sealed bearings on both sides.
@qascooter avatar
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Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
These new wheel bearings come sealed. The old ones aren't.

Do you just remove the seals?
I like to pop the covers and repack them with grease, then put the covers back on. They may be sealed, but sometimes the grease is very minimal.

The bottom bracket of my fat tire bike always needs packing because of riding on the beach.
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UTC

Addicted
1978 P150X; 1982 P200e
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Location: Toronto
 
Addicted
@velasquez avatar
1978 P150X; 1982 P200e
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UTC quote
Looks fantastic, well done!
OP
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
There's a grease zerk. Originally, the whole thing was filled with grease. There's a seal on the hub side, and a threaded grease cap on the other. It needs grease inside, bc there's a speedo gear.

So if I keep those, on, I guess I'll fill it with grease anyway?
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
The puzzle.

All the fork and hub parts are so complex. I want to be sure I have them all right. Got a few new ones, and the old ones are in this tub of parts.
The spring pivot. I have the two rubber seals, which the parts book calls packing. But there's also a washer, and it's unclear where it goes.
The spring pivot. I have the two rubber seals, which the parts book calls packing. But there's also a washer, and it's unclear where it goes.
part 34 here.
part 34 here.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
I have a collection of single washers. These don't have pairs.
I have a collection of single washers. These don't have pairs.
this must be the one
this must be the one
have a new one of these but the old one looks fine. Assuming the grease nipple points away from the wheel.
have a new one of these but the old one looks fine. Assuming the grease nipple points away from the wheel.
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
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UTC quote
Courtesy mr.10:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
thanks! this is so helpful!
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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Location: Siam
 
Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
A little progress. Got all the parts to rebuild the front fork/link/axle.
Always use the old original parts as long as they aren't damaged.
@orwell84 avatar
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Ossessionato
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Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
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UTC quote
Using Ospho or similar to etch is a good idea. Just make sure to clean off the residue it leaves as it can cause problems with primer adhesion. Figured you knew that already, but just in case...I like priming over a sandblasted surface. Great adhesion.
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
Using Ospho or similar to etch is a good idea. Just make sure to clean off the residue it leaves as it can cause problems with primer adhesion. Figured you knew that already, but just in case...I like priming over a sandblasted surface. Great adhesion.
I am getting some!
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
Was hoping to build the front end today, but hit snags.

The spring pivot is really hard! I have no idea how to get the rubber seals and washer in there. I'm guessing the new ones are denser rubber, and they just don't want to fit in there.

The fork pivot bearings are impossible to get out.

Guess I'll go back to the shop space.
Put the axle bearings in. Decided to remove the bearing seals, bc they weren't there originally.
Put the axle bearings in. Decided to remove the bearing seals, bc they weren't there originally.
Seal and axle
Seal and axle
Axle in
Axle in
Reattached the dust plate that had fallen off
Reattached the dust plate that had fallen off
There's part of a bearing cage in here. So hard to remove.
There's part of a bearing cage in here. So hard to remove.
This is a spring washer, and it was brittle. Replace.
This is a spring washer, and it was brittle. Replace.
I have no idea how to get the second seal and washer in here.
I have no idea how to get the second seal and washer in here.
Looks like a Vespa hub. Very clean, at least.
Looks like a Vespa hub. Very clean, at least.
Mounted all the tires.
Mounted all the tires.
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
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UTC quote
Since I have all these, I will use them.
Some odd, US-only parts.
Some odd, US-only parts.
This is the rear turn signal connector. I think 1974 only.
This is the rear turn signal connector. I think 1974 only.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Found a NOS ignition switch. The switch is different, but I can use the lock mechanism and key. The plastic ring is the same too.
Found a NOS ignition switch. The switch is different, but I can use the lock mechanism and key. The plastic ring is the same too.
Speedo stuck at 70. Sending off to Speedo King.
Speedo stuck at 70. Sending off to Speedo King.
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
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Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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Location: So Cal
UTC quote
As much as I respect your idea of recreating a US-spec scoot, the reality is the US signals are kind of a pain in the butt. The stalks - especially the rear ones - are prone to vibration and getting bumped, and need a good amount of regular fiddling to work right. If you don't mind dealing with that, great.

Have you decided on a color?

A speedo stuck at 70 can only be a good omen.
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
Oh yeah. Those things are such a pain.

The design is super awkward. Protruding at right angles from brackets. So slapped on.

I am having such a hard time deciding on color, I think I'll just restore it to its original state. That alpine white color.

I have a spare Rally engine. I think Might build another one when this one is complete. And do it Euro spec.

This was a bike that I originally loved bc it was all original, but was in such bad condition. It's the most elaborate project ever.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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UTC quote
With my p200 I rebuilt, I make it look as close as I could to the 1970s American ad they used.

And it came out pretty well.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Posts: 9915
Location: Nashville

67 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9915
Location: Nashville

67 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
But did you wear either of those two sweet outfits while you rode it around?
@orwell84 avatar
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Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
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Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
But did you wear either of those two sweet outfits while you rode it around?
On you way to Studio 54?
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
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Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
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UTC quote
I think white looks great on a Vespa. My px150 clone was white.

Your scooter will be quite the gem. You will always be turning around to take a last look at it when you're walking away. Just don't get that haircut.
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