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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
Probably the rarest US market detail. Everyone took these off, bc they were a bit awkward, so few remain.
Plus, we're Americans. There's not much we hate more than Safety Features.

My Sprint still has its reflectors, plus bonus reflective tape on the back of the frame above the license plate. But the dude I bought it from was a doctor, though, so maybe that explains it.
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Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
Plus, we're Americans. There's not much we hate more than Safety Features.

My Sprint still has its reflectors, plus bonus reflective tape on the back of the frame above the license plate. But the dude I bought it from was a doctor, though, so maybe that explains it.
Let me see, lets sit on 2 gallons of gas, hurdle ourselves down the road at 60 mph on 8" tube tires with mediocre brakes and see what happens. Reflectors? Who needs stinking reflectors?
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Molto Verboso
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Adventures in Ospho.

I can see how this really works. Int he time since I've blasted it, rust was beginning to reform in the places it was.

Or the blasting got the paint and built up rust, but some was still there in the seams and pits.

This just gets everything. You can see it goes all the way through the seams and treats the other side. And the rust changes color, or vanishes.

No idea how to get it off, though. That's the next step.
It's very thin!
It's very thin!
In some places, it just vanishes.
In some places, it just vanishes.
Here, it went all the way through the seam, and was treating the inside along it. So the rust must be neutralized there.
Here, it went all the way through the seam, and was treating the inside along it. So the rust must be neutralized there.
Little spots turn black.
Little spots turn black.
Got all these spots too. The inner fender had a lot, but keeping it. Just patching the bottom part.
Got all these spots too. The inner fender had a lot, but keeping it. Just patching the bottom part.
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The Dude
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Ospho is a good product. Active ingredient is Phosphoric Acid. Same as Naval Jelly, and others. I prefer to use Eastwood's FAST ETCH. I cant say it works any better or worse than Ospho, but its my go to; and its clear not green.

Scrub the surface with the ospho and a scotchbrite type pad. Like wetsanding. leave a nice coating, and keep it wet for atleast 30mins; reapplying/scrubbing as necessary.

You may find pits with very deep rust pits, where the surface has been 'converted'; but deeper down the rust is still present. The ospho(phosphoric acid) only treats the rust that it touches. It does penetrate well, but a scrub-n-scrape is helpful to get as much as possible.

Removing the ospho is not necessary; but can be cleaned with Mineral spirits. The white film build up can be scrubbed off with a scouring pad. My technique is to use more of the product with a scrubber to get white crustys off, then wipe clean with a cloth. The white crusty build up can be prevented by mopping up the excess fluid before it dries.

Now - go ahead and coat that whole entire frame. Inside and out. It will last longer in its current state.
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
GeekLion wrote:
Ospho is a good product. Active ingredient is Phosphoric Acid. Same as Naval Jelly, and others. I prefer to use Eastwood's FAST ETCH. I cant say it works any better or worse than Ospho, but its my go to; and its clear not green.
Thanks!

It's so messy! It's like the consistency of water, so it drips. In the places it dripped and pooled, it made sticky/bubble areas, which can be thinned out be adding more ospho, and wiping off. I used solvent in some places it seemed too thick.

But it does seem to have worked on the rust it touched.

I still need to wire brush some areas.

It doesn't clean off! It leaves a coating on the metal, and changes the color. But I guess that's ok.

I was just looking in some forums and such.

I'm a little worried that I also added it to areas where I am going to weld, and it's left a coating on those.
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The Dude
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The Dude
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hjo wrote:
Thanks!

It's so messy! It's like the consistency of water, so it drips. In the places it dripped and pooled, it made sticky/bubble areas, which can be thinned out be adding more ospho, and wiping off. I used solvent in some places it seemed too thick.

But it does seem to have worked on the rust it touched.

I still need to wire brush some areas.

It doesn't clean off! It leaves a coating on the metal, and changes the color. But I guess that's ok.

I was just looking in some forums and such.

I'm a little worried that I also added it to areas where I am going to weld, and it's left a coating on those.
Yeah it is messy. Takes a bit of forethought to not have a huge mess. When doing large pieces like this, I work on some cardboard or plastic sheeting. The coating is a good thing! Good fto get rid of existing rust, good at preventing future rust. Leave the coating, and paint right over it. For welding, just grind/sand/etc to clean to bare metal as usual; not a big deal.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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The coating/discoloration is where it's galvanizing the metal, making it rust-resistant. While it's not the hot-dip galvanizing that is the gold standard for maximizing rust resistance in the automobile industry, it's in the same family and will definitely prevent surface rust on the treated parts.

Depending on where I wind up in the overall work flow, I'll probably be ospho'ing my VBB frame today or tomorrow now that it's bare metal.
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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Thanks for the help.

I guess then I can do the metal work now without needing primer?

The ospho parts won't rust more?
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
Thanks for the help.

I guess then I can do the metal work now without needing primer?

The ospho parts won't rust more?
Correct, except where you scratch or sand through the galvanizing, of course. But you can also just spray a little more on afterwards if that happens.
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
I paint the inside of frame members if I can reach after sandblasting clean or using naval jelly or Ospho. I don't like POR 15 as it eventually peels. Rust oleum would even be ok for inside frame members. I have found that even if I don't get every bit of rust out of the pits, it will stop rusting if the paint remains intact. Scooters shouldn't rust like cars because they are typically not driven on salty winter roads.
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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Trial by error.

I learned a few things with Ospho.

1. Since it's bare metal, I should have wire brushed off all the rust first. It's very light still, but still there. Going to go back and redo those parts.

2. I used one of those sponge paintbrushes. But those are too absorbent, and caused lots of drips and runs.

3. I guess you can do the whole thing. I just applied in spots where there was rust reforming. Those were all places where there was rust previously.

4. This is great. I still need to do welding, and was worried about rust already forming. And was planning to primer parts of the frame that don't need metal work. But now I think I can just wait until the work is done and do it all at once.
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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ok. Ospho is great!

After it dried, it's actually pretty easy to work with.

I was trying to wipe it off when it was still setting, but I guess that's unnecessary.
Looks a little funky. I just added in spots. But I'll redo the whole thing, and put it on thinner.
Looks a little funky. I just added in spots. But I'll redo the whole thing, and put it on thinner.
This is where I reapplied and thinned out when it was still wet. It's much more consistent.
This is where I reapplied and thinned out when it was still wet. It's much more consistent.
After drying, it's really easy to wire brush off the spots where there was surface rust. And it's gone completely.
After drying, it's really easy to wire brush off the spots where there was surface rust. And it's gone completely.
Here too. There was rust spotting left from blasting on these seams. But cleans off. When it was bare, the wire brush would leave a bit of orange.
Here too. There was rust spotting left from blasting on these seams. But cleans off. When it was bare, the wire brush would leave a bit of orange.
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The Dude
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nice work!
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
GeekLion wrote:
nice work!
Thanks!

I'm feeling better about this.

I'll do another round, and coat everything. Then remove all the spots where there was surface rust with the wire brush, and reapply there.

Then it's time to actually repair the frame!

I've been procrastinating on it. It's the only thing really left. I have the motor and front end. And almost all the parts I need. The remaining ones are available. Nothing rare to hunt for.
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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Ospho hell.

I think I understand Ospho.

I neutralized it (just on the legshield to test). Seemed to work.

You wet it again (with Ospho), and then wipe with water (and I used a little soap). Dry with a heat gun.

It turns this kind of powdery consistency (may be the soap).

Want to be sure I have this right. I'm terrified of all the paint peeling.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Found this gasket NOS from a Harley shop.
Found this gasket NOS from a Harley shop.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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UTC quote
hjo wrote:
Ospho hell.

I think I understand Ospho.

I neutralized it (just on the legshield to test). Seemed to work.

You wet it again (with Ospho), and then wipe with water (and I used a little soap). Dry with a heat gun.

It turns this kind of powdery consistency (may be the soap).

Want to be sure I have this right. I'm terrified of all the paint peeling.
Once it fully dried, I washed it off with a hose and a sponge and then prepped it "normally," i.e. what I learned from watching youtube videos.

You can go through my GL paint play-by-play, or just skip to the summarized prep task list.

And I didn't get all the residue off the inside of one cowl when I was washing it. It painted over just fine, but had some texture to it. Sanded down and re-coated, life was good.

It's now been almost a year since I did it and the paint still looks great. No signs of peeling or any other issues.
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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UTC quote
so if you didn't like the sponge brush, what did you end up liking instead?

I've got fast etch work to do on my floorboards soon. I used the foam brush too last time. It's OK but does run, especially if you have to work upside down, in which case it pays to have big gloves and safety glasses.
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Lucky
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Lucky
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I use a spray bottle to apply the ospho. You don't have to soak it, unless you're dealing with heavy rust or maybe deep pitting. Just need to get the surface wet.
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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This video really scared me.

The first one, he leaves on the Ospho, and goes over with 80 grit. And the paint comes right off.

youtube.com/watch?v=-yA8q4K-_Bo&list=PLMoQ0JUQsDoZqLNpR9YnkXizkIO-AYscz&index=4
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Molto Verboso
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Christmas in January.
Ricambi!
Ricambi!
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Lucky
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Lucky
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hjo wrote:
This video really scared me.

The first one, he leaves on the Ospho, and goes over with 80 grit. And the paint comes right off.

youtube.com/watch?v=-yA8q4K-_Bo&list=PLMoQ0JUQsDoZqLNpR9YnkXizkIO-AYscz&index=4
I'm not sure why you found that video scary. Test #1, he deliberately used the products incorrectly and they predictably failed.

Test #2, he did it correctly and while he was able to get the bondo off the epoxy primer, the primer stayed bonded to the metal like it was supposed to.

I didn't get a chance to watch the rest of it yet, so maybe it gets worse on #'s 3 and 4(?), but I can also say my first-hand experience was that when I both inflicted and then hammered out fairly major body damage, none of the existing paint came loose in the slightest.
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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That video.

There are three of those going through all the steps.

It's really just the first one that fails. But fails badly.

I was reading other threads on Ospho, and they talk about acid film messing with adhesion.

The bottle I have says you can just let it dry and leave it on bare metal. But body work people say to neutralize it.

On the part I neutralized, it seems pretty good!
I was able to get every seam with rust pretty much perfect.
I was able to get every seam with rust pretty much perfect.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
The water washing it off caused the faintest bit of flash rusting in places, but it cleans off pretty easy.
The water washing it off caused the faintest bit of flash rusting in places, but it cleans off pretty easy.
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Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
I rinsed the stuff off with isopropyl alcohol. I didn't want to use water and didn't want to leave it on either....
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Lucky
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Lucky
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On my GL, I literally used a garden hose and a sponge to scrub it off. No flash rusting, either.
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
On my GL, I literally used a garden hose and a sponge to scrub it off. No flash rusting, either.
I think rewetting the ospho and then wiping off with water removed most of it.

Yours turned out well! Just having panic about finishing, and spending a bunch to have it professionally sprayed, then it all peeling off.
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Molto Verboso
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sdjohn wrote:
so if you didn't like the sponge brush, what did you end up liking instead?

I've got fast etch work to do on my floorboards soon. I used the foam brush too last time. It's OK but does run, especially if you have to work upside down, in which case it pays to have big gloves and safety glasses.
Use a chip brush.
Wipe it off with a damp non-shedding rag when it's done it's job, maybe 1/2 hour.
Repeat if necessary.
When dry, clean with a combination of a brass wire brush and 120 grit sandpaper. Wear a respirator or take it outside while doing so.
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Lucky
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I totally get where you're coming from, but I think you're over-worrying. When you drop it off, tell them how you prepped it (like it's not obvious to look at it).

If they're professionals, then they should professionally prep it, which would include dealing with anything like residual chemicals on the surface.
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Molto Verboso
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qascooter wrote:
I rinsed the stuff off with isopropyl alcohol. I didn't want to use water and didn't want to leave it on either....
This was really fast. Like maybe one minute, and I used a heat gun to dry.

I tried also isopropyl and a wire brush, and that seems to work, and leave the Ospho in a more protective coating type state.

I guess I need to hunt for these:
- Will the acid eventually eat through the metal if it is not neutralized?
- Is the acid film just a film? or is the whole layer of Ospho acid film?

If the Ospho is fine, I guess I just need to address areas where it went on too thick. You can mostly do that by reapplying/wiping.

I think what I did here was basically remove it. Which is also beneficial, bc it converted all the areas with rust really well, and those brushed right off.
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Molto Verboso
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Glamour shots of parts.

A bunch arrived today.

Thank you Chandlerman for the headlight!
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Speedo King sent the old parts. All new except the case and the lens.
Speedo King sent the old parts. All new except the case and the lens.
It's amazing to see these things so clean/new.
It's amazing to see these things so clean/new.
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Thank you Chandlerman! Bar Italia has someone who can fix the ring. So I now have all the CEV parts!
Thank you Chandlerman! Bar Italia has someone who can fix the ring. So I now have all the CEV parts!
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I just love these.
I just love these.
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The Dude
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The Dude
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OG CEV ftw
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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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Nice work so far.
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Molto Verboso
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Have you considered a seam sealant?
Takes time, but look at any old scoot and you'll likely see cracks at the seams.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P6412M1?ref=vse_pfo_vwdp#customerReviews

At around 12:00 here:

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Lucky
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Lucky
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That thing is already looking *so* good. I'm glad I was able to fill in a gap to make it so
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Molto Verboso
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chandlerman wrote:
That thing is already looking *so* good. I'm glad I was able to fill in a gap to make it so
Thank you so much! I love the headlight.
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Posts: 1847
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Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
Ray8 wrote:
Have you considered a seam sealant?
Takes time, but look at any old scoot and you'll likely see cracks at the seams.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P6412M1?ref=vse_pfo_vwdp#customerReviews

At around 12:00 here:
This is super helpful. I was going to put 3m seam sealer on the area where the fllorboard meets the frame. it's weldable. Should probably do them all. The seams were the part that rusted.

The inner fender has some kind of heavy like tile caulk type stuff.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14921
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14921
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
pretty work all the way around. very very impressive.
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1132
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1132
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Looking sharp! Eyes on the prize now, February's right around the corner.

Good find on the taillamp gasket. The Aermacchi Harleys used several bits found on Vespas and Lambrettas.
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9833
Location: Nashville

45 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9833
Location: Nashville

45 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
I guess I'll be sealing my seams now...

I have some POR-15 I used in a couple spots on the GL. If it's still good, I'll go with that. Nasty, sticky stuff, but it does make a lot of sense to seal the seams that way.
OP
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1847
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
I guess I'll be sealing my seams now...

I have some POR-15 I used in a couple spots on the GL. If it's still good, I'll go with that. Nasty, sticky stuff, but it does make a lot of sense to seal the seams that way.
It's really important to seal this seam, along the inner fender. All the grime from the back wheel can get in there and into the frame.

I used clear silicone on this one, bc I powder coated the whole thing.

In that video, he seals the seams between coats of epoxy, it looks like. The sealer is under the paint. Which is what cars have.

He used the same one for the inner fender and panel seams, but masked the others off.

That video is so nice!
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@geeklion avatar
UTC

The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1670
Location: PNW from LBC
 
The Dude
@geeklion avatar
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1670
Location: PNW from LBC
UTC quote
Always use seam sealer, just as the factory did. I use this from 3M. Dries firm but flexible, and paintable.

3M 08365 Urethane Seam Sealer, Beige

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A9ZR7ZW/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_C7PD4GPP35EG0HSQ3PVE
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