Modern Vespa

I love the original Piaggio top end. Going to install this week at the shop.

Which way does the arrow go? I'm guessing up.

It doesn't look like the ports in the piston line up with ports in the barrel. Are those just there to lubricate the piston?

Nice bit of cylinder. One thing to note: Inspect the exhaust port area inside the cylinder, where the stub threads in. There was a manufacturing issue with some previous kits, where the machining was too deep and caused a break thru- which caused air leaks. There are posts/threads on this forum about it. Others will probably chime in.

Arrow on piston points down - towards the exhaust port.

Trash those rubber bands. Not needed

Thanks! I might have put it upside down!

The machining looks not very deep. It's about half the depth of the thread.

Really impressed with this. It's apparently a licensed Piaggio vendor, but very nice quality.

More parts!

I found a Sipea ignition switch from a Fiat 600, from the same era.

It's the same on the front, same ring. But has five connectors, and different type connector ends.

I was thinking I could just swap out the lock part, but the whole thing is probably fine.

I'd imagine there are two circuits for cutting off power and ignition, and the fifth is probably some electricity that stays on in the Fiat when the key is off?

This one doesn't have a an extra push for the starter. It's just on/off. The starter was a button (at least on some).

Very cool.
How did you figure out who the ignition manufacture was? Was the one off the rallly stamped? And how did you source that fiat used the same make?

I also sweat paint prep and using Ospho. I wipe everything down with acetone or panel wipe right before filler or primer. Wipe in one direction with a soaked rag with a dry one right behind it until there is nothing can be seen on the rag. I sometimes warm the metal with a heat gun as my garage can be a bit damp on summer mornings. I also swipe with auto body tack rags right before. They have a slightly sticky feel to them. I tend to use them less on primer coats that need to be sanded and more right before top coating.

Ospho can leave a residue if over wet but the wipe down should take care of it. Whatever is left between the seams will provide a light etching or galvanizing. Use nitrile gloves especially when handling metal before top coat. Oils from your hands or looking at it funny can cause adhesion problems. Every time I paint, some big crazy bug decides to kill itself right in the middle of my biggest panel.

Be aware that if the silicon has any acetic acid in it, it can and will cause rust to eventually form.

Any seam sealer made for auto body should be fine. I usually apply it between primer coats. I have had it in my bus for decades. There is also a 2k seam sealer that uses two tubes in a special gun with a nozzle that mixes them.

The old ignition had a marking – "Sipea Ca 15"

I found a thread there on MV about it.

And searching for Sipea ignition, there were a bunch on ebay and parts sellers in Italy (This one came from Italy).

It's slightly different, but close.

Makes sense. Piaggio just sourced an Italian part that was available. Just used a few for the US market.

I tried wiping the Ospho off with acetone. A bit comes off, but surprisingly not a lot. In the places where there were runs, and it was thick, it takes a lot of effort to remove.

That stuff is so strange. It's very tough, but just apply more and it all melts.

That's strange. I caked it on the rust over here and just a wet rag wipe then a dry cloth after and the film was gone. I used half a container on the front fender and other assorted rust spots. Like wildly over did it. White stuff came off easily. I dunno. Maybe it has to do with temp when used?

I think the sandblasted texture might make it hold on more, too.

There isn't a while film, it's more like urethane type texture where it's thick.

Running out of parts to find. That must mean it's time to get this thing finished!

What epoxy is that? Did you shoot Direct-to-Metal (DTM) or something else?

That's is this Eastwood epoxy in a can.

Which is very expensive, and very messy. And doesn't cover a lot.

One can did my fender and one cowl.

The finish is a bit weird, bc I sanded it.

From Eastwood: "For direct-to-metal applications, our epoxy spray primer will Do the Job Right."

I didn't Ospho the cowls, bc they had no rust at all.

Need to find a photo of what this should look like.

This bike had a front rack, and it pulled the legshield away from the brace.

I got it more pushed back in, but the shape is a bit off, and there's a bit of a gap.

Getting ready to finish engine.

Is this right? I'm assuming it is, bc this was the Vespa 200 cylinder.

What do you use to lubricate the cylinder?

I was thinking of using two stroke oil, since it lives there.

That hole in the first picture allows mixture to lubricate the bearing.

I don't know if that cylinder is right or not, but can you share some more pictures?

I'd expect it to have ports that more or less match the motor.

p200 cylinders have but one port

Now I gotta go look at mine. I recall it having three undersized and strangely located ports.

one port on the cylinder gasket face. 6 ports inside the barrel.

looking down the barrel from the spigot end:

[gasket surface]

[port/window 6]

[port 9] [port 3]

then in a ring with the exhaust and one port opposing each other

[port 9] [exhaust 12] [port 3] [port 6]


[top of cylinder]

Aah. That makes sense. You can see the ports inside. And then the induction is coming through the crank, too.

Is there a purpose for those cut-outs on the case that look like ports?

Those are outside the cylinder sleeve, so I guess they don't do anything?

One more thing done.

I definitely recommend the OEM Piaggio cylinder kit. It came all finished. Rings gapped, ports cleaned up. bolts right on.

It has very good compression!

I want to save this.

The original Vespa badge has an R stamped in it. I guess it means Ricambi.

The ones you can buy don't have.

I think it could be re-chromed. It's chrome, then paint, on aluminum, I think.

The repop Vespa badge is close, but not perfect. Save the original if you can. fhe "R" = registered trademark, and was only stamped on USA market vespas

Registered Trademark!

So happy to know that!

Is the SIP road louder than the original pipe?

I like that it looks the same as the original one. And apparently makes the bike faster.

I love the sound of stock vespa engines, though.

And everyone I know who ever modified their engines ended up with really unreliable bikes.

The SIP Road is not louder, I'm pretty sure, but it has a different tone to it. It's deeper than the stock exhausts.

As to reliability...if you want something that you can treat like a Honda (just add gas, change the oil once per year), then you need to get a Honda. These bikes will require more attention than a modern bike, but a well-built stock bike is good for thousands of miles between rebuilds with just a little bit of basic maintenance.

Modifying a motor doesn't makes it inherently less reliable, either. That's more a function of workmanship and engineering choices, and once you start making your own decisions, you lose the benefit of Vespa's own engineering choices. You just need to decide where you want to wind up in the Engineering Triangle (Reliable, Fast, Cheap: Pick Two). Stock Vespas were designed to be Reliable and Cheap .

What modifying the motor definitely does, though, is increase the maintenance required as parts wear more quickly than on a stock motor. You can overcome some of that by sourcing better/stronger parts, but there will be inevitable failures, sometimes at the worst possible time.

My most reliable bike is actually my GL, which has a super-tuned motor in it, but is also a first-kick-start bike 90% of the time--but I also watch it like a hawk for anything that might need attention, so I can catch it before the failure compounds.

I've had three p200s that had been sitting for decades, all original, and just needed the basic carb cleaning, oil change, spark plug. And ran for 20,000 miles without ever having the case opened.

The people who race out bikes tend to abuse them too, though.

"abuse" is such a strong word. I prefer to think we're just "maximizing their potential."

One little piece at a time.

I love how original quality parts clean up.

Something to be said for the stock detuned power plants on these things. It's nice to be able to make it work by the book. It's a simple recipe for success. I think the tuning stuff is cool, but it can get quite complicated and be a lot of work.

Polishing looks great Hjo!

I've always been so impressed with bikes that sat for 30 years and start right up.

There's something so great about Vespa engineering.

One of the things that struck me about my vbb when I took it all apart was that there just wasn't much to it. The p series isn't that much more complex.

The P series is less complex. The most fussy part of those bikes is the points/condenser.

The P fork is much simpler, too. Just a pivot and a shock.

Notes for the welder.

Please do it right!!

Hopefully whoever is doing the welding for you also knows bodywork. Welding is one art, bodywork is another art. Make sure to find someone who does both so that they will have a full understanding of what your final goal is.

I hope so! I have a recommendation for a shop that is a welder/fabricator. But comes very highly recommended from someone whose opinion I trust.

He restores old Porsches, and also has an industrial business.

The alternative is like a shop that does high end restorations of cars. Or doing myself.

Also giving the welder these photos.