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Bought my first Vespa about 6 weeks ago. 2015 primavera 50.

When I test rode it, it ran rough, but started fine. I complained to the seller. He said he would have his favorite mechanic "tune it up" before I came back to transport the Vespa home.
When I went to test ride and pick it up, he advised his mechanic had put in a "new" carb.

I was happy and it ran great. I now realize I got a cheap carb and lost my Keihin which I suppose needed cleaning.

My 2015 Vespa had 137 miles on it. So mostly sat for five years.

So what have I lost and how will I know it? I'm close to a gas station with ethanol free gas. I'm not sure what carb I have. Do they just fail sooner? I wish I had asked for my Keihin back.

Carb photo is attached. Chinese knockoff?

In the second photo is a cable. It was just there un-attached. What is it and where does it go? In the top left of that photo you can see a tag wrapped around the same cable. Hard to read but I'll try if needed to identify. I hope it's not something that fits only in my old carb?

Thanks all.

PS. I first asked this question on another topic but didn't want to hijack that topic so started a new one.

Just noticed the letters on my carb pd18j and googled it and got this $24.00 carb on Amazon.
"Hity Motor PD18J 18mm Carburetor for 4 Stroke GY6 49cc 50cc Chinese Scooter 139QMB Moped Engine for Taotao Kymco Scooter with Fuel Filter Spark Plug Intake Manifold and Adjusting Shims"
No name carb
No name carb
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
⚠️ Last edited by Billrush on UTC; edited 2 times
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Here is the second photo of the unattached cable.
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UTC quote
that's a pre-heater for the carb bowl. entirely unnecessary for you, and doesn't hook up to that carb. and yeah that's a china carb.

does it start and run fine? bueno. ride the shit out of it and don't worry about nothing.

you've lost zero-point-zero on this one
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What about the throttle cable ? Are we seeing a double zip tie holding it and it's routed around the place it is supposed to be nested in? One nut shown in picture at the end of it where there are supposed to be 2 that hold it in that flange.

I "might" not be too upset about the carb swap if......if the scooter runs great but the throttle cable mounting looks... not ideal. I will try and post some pics of what should be going on there.
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Your throttle cable should be setup like this if it is like the LX50. Maybe they lost the nut and washer and improvised?
No Zipties are needed!
No Zipties are needed!
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UTC quote
Kevin T.

Great catch on the throttle cable mess. I've posted a close up of that deal. I've seen that many times and think I should fix it. But then I think the guy who installed the carb went to a lot of trouble to zip tie that cable the way he did. There must be a reason. Maybe the missing washer?


In the close up you can see the second nut. Maybe he lost the washer? What is the function of that washer and where will I find it? Even with that washer missing, I wonder why the guy zip tied it the way he did?

Thanks much
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I think the washer keeps the cable from twisting but I bet if you take care tightening the two nuts you can do without it. I might be tempted to put a round lock washer there.

Is that a mini light bar you are using? I like that!
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It looks like the cable was too short to be attached properly so hence the zip ties. I will say that is in my top 5 janky fixes to a problem. I would make sure you have spare zip ties with you because that will leave you by the side of the road. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but eventually it will. Not sure if there is a replacement throttle cable out there but you should look and see.
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A sloppy engineering job.
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Pink scooter, my thoughts exactly. I always pictured cutting those zip ties off, disconnecting the cable, then finding it was too short! So I need to find the replacement cable first, then cut the zip ties.
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And anyone got a likely spot to find a replacement cable?
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greasy125 wrote:
that's a pre-heater for the carb bowl. entirely unnecessary for you, and doesn't hook up to that carb. and yeah that's a china carb.

does it start and run fine? bueno. ride the shit out of it and don't worry about nothing.

you've lost zero-point-zero on this one
Has he really? The carb the dealer put in cost $25, replacing a $200 carb which I have to believe is a better piece of equipment, FAR better. Even a used Keihin for the Primavera costs twice as much as that Chinese replacement. For all we know his carb is up on eBay right now, or sitting on the dealers shelf waiting for the time he can sell it to someone insisting on an authentic replacement. Billrush didn't get a discount so it's a win-win for the dealer. The little scams really add up.
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If in Italy you try to replace the piece with another you must tell the customer that he must accept the replacement with a signature on a release deed because our Highway Code considers it an illegal modification for free circulation on the public road, but only if the piece is related to the active operation of the vehicle which is homologated to the Ministry of Transport with all the technical specifications in a list.
To give an example, not only the carburettor type is listed in a vehicle but also the manufacturer's mark because it is an active component. The shock absorbers are also active components and therefore (in Italy) you cannot modify the suspensions unless they have the same up and down travel and the distance between the attacks is identical; whoever makes a change to the homologation parameters faces heavy fines and the seizure of the vehicle.
To go back to our case, if the mechanic (in Italy) had replaced the piece with another one that was different even just for the brand, he would have been fined and would have been reported for fraud.
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UTC quote
that janky throttle cable setup is going to be bad in short order. not only are the zip ties WRONG to hold a cable inlace but the straight pull is no longer there and your rubbing that cable for excessive wear so it will fray very soon and then break.

This needs to be fixed SOON, or your looking for a new cable.
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Carburetor swap aside, it's still a flawed and temporary "fix" and the dealer owes you an explanation and a proper repair at the very least.
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Retro Scoot wrote:
Carburetor swap aside, it's still a flawed and temporary "fix" and the dealer owes you an explanation and a proper repair at the very least.
I don't think there's a dealer involved here? Seems like a private sale, given the OP mentioned a seller and the seller's favorite mechanic?
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No dealer. And the private seller, in Miami, paid the small scooter shop to make it run better. As a raw nube I was happy to be getting a new carb and a like new looking scooter with 137 miles which now ran great. I had no idea I was down grading carbs to that extent.

So now, I got a $200 less good deal on the scooter with a bad cable. So maybe $250 less good deal. But still a good deal and I believe the perfect scooter for me now. I love my gorgeous red Vespa! She is sweet!

I think now my main task is finding a replacement cable and installing it correctly. I'm very good at finding parts on the internet. Finding parts for Vespas hasn't always been easy. So many similar but different models. But I'll find the cable. I always do.

That is the beauty of MV. I get to ask for help and advice here. Even this cable saga is part of the adventure. And at age 70, it's even more fun. Great birthday present to myself!

So I have a cable to go search for. To be continued! Thanks all!
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You know what Bill? It is through stories and troubles like this that you get to know the people of the forum, yes it is true ... it will not be a good experience and not even a positive one, but it will be constructive.
With a few lines I appreciated your character and thoughtful approach to the problem but what struck me most was the appreciation for teamwork to solve the (occasional) problems that a Vespa can have.
Thank you for being here.
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UTC quote
Billrush wrote:
No dealer. And the private seller, in Miami, paid the small scooter shop to make it run better. As a raw nube I was happy to be getting a new carb and a like new looking scooter with 137 miles which now ran great. I had no idea I was down grading carbs to that extent.

So now, I got a $200 less good deal on the scooter with a bad cable. So maybe $250 less good deal. But still a good deal and I believe the perfect scooter for me now. I love my gorgeous red Vespa! She is sweet!

I think now my main task is finding a replacement cable and installing it correctly. I'm very good at finding parts on the internet. Finding parts for Vespas hasn't always been easy. So many similar but different models. But I'll find the cable. I always do.

That is the beauty of MV. I get to ask for help and advice here. Even this cable saga is part of the adventure. And at age 70, it's even more fun. Great birthday present to myself!

So I have a cable to go search for. To be continued! Thanks all!
+1 to this action. Good to post the pics - it does look to me too that the cable is prone to excessive wear due to the funny (or not so funny) angle it meets the cable inlace.

A very sloppy job to what probably would have been a case of just cleaning the original. Looking at the art of work, might even be a case of sloppinesh vs. seeking monetary advance with the carb swap - this was just an 'easy fix'.
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UTC quote
I've been looking at carb pictures. How the cable connects to the Keihin carb looks different from how it attaches to my brand new Hity PD18j carb. I am now thinking my cable may be fine and the zip tie crap was chosen to get the cable onto the Hity carb.

Makes me wonder how this gets fixed. Buying a new Piaggio cable may not actually help if the problem is attaching to the Hity.
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you might try and go to the place that change the carb and ask for the oem carb back, then you can clean that carb and reinstall.
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Billrush wrote:
No dealer. And the private seller, in Miami, paid the small scooter shop to make it run better. As a raw nube I was happy to be getting a new carb and a like new looking scooter with 137 miles which now ran great. I had no idea I was down grading carbs to that extent.

So now, I got a $200 less good deal on the scooter with a bad cable. So maybe $250 less good deal. But still a good deal and I believe the perfect scooter for me now. I love my gorgeous red Vespa! She is sweet!

I think now my main task is finding a replacement cable and installing it correctly. I'm very good at finding parts on the internet. Finding parts for Vespas hasn't always been easy. So many similar but different models. But I'll find the cable. I always do.

That is the beauty of MV. I get to ask for help and advice here. Even this cable saga is part of the adventure. And at age 70, it's even more fun. Great birthday present to myself!

So I have a cable to go search for. To be continued! Thanks all!
Ahh - no dealer... my bad. That lowers the bar a bit...I wouldn't assume the mechanic was attempting to cheat you in any way with a carb switch - probably just taking the path of least resistance and trying to get the scoot back on the road with as little fuss as possible; rebuilding a carb takes time and some expertise that he may not have had. More time, more money and no guarantee of success with the old carb. In fairness, he should have been a little more communicative about his fix and really, the old carb should still belong to you. (What Old As Dirt said)
JMHO But she's running and you have time to acquire a cable, etc. and you know your machine that much better for the experience!
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I think she's beautiful and I'm glad you got a good deal. I'm just so sick and tired of nearly every business large and small trying to pull one over on the consumer.
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Retro Scoot wrote:
probably just taking the path of least resistance and trying to get the scoot back on the road with as little fuss as possible
You have a more generous view of humanity than I do. Who puts an ill fitting $25 Chinese carb into a Vespa? The mechanic removed the Keihin and so must have known the scoot calls for higher end parts that last. At the very least the consumer should have been consulted about replacement. Maybe he would have gone for a new Keihin if a new carb was needed (though that's unlikely and it mostly only needed a bit of cleaning and/or tuning since it was only running "rough"). It should have been his choice. What if he didn't know ModernVespa existed? Not everyone does and he would have been out there riding around with the throttle cable dangerously mickey moused to a carb that doesn't fit.

At the very least he should get his original carb back. Then HE can be the one to sell it on eBay or maybe used knowledge gleaned here on MV to clean it up and put it back in the scoot where it belongs.
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Thanks everyone. Here is an update:

Remember, this Vespa was a cash purchase 6 weeks ago, in Miami ,FL which is two hours drive away. Of course, I knew I was buying as is and took the risk.

I sent the seller a picture of the zip tied mess. I then called him and left a message. I told him I still love my scooter but needed to fix that throttle cable and could use his help.

Then I called back and he answered. He said he had not seen the zip ties that day. I asked him to ask the mechanic, (the mechanic only speaks Spanish and I do not) why he resorted to the zip ties. I am hoping this tells me something that can help me eliminate the zip ties. He will see the mechanic tomorrow and ask him.

Now get this: I then said, "do you suppose they still have my original carb?" To which he said, "I have it here, and I'm happy to send it to you no charge" I nearly fell over.

End of update but not end of story. I've asked for the carb back. Maybe the mechanic tells me something helpful. I'm not spending to much time on what I may do with my original carb until I actually have it back. The saga continues.
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Billrush wrote:
Now get this: I then said, "do you suppose they still have my original carb?" To which he said, "I have it here, and I'm happy to send it to you no charge" I nearly fell over.

End of update but not end of story. I've asked for the carb back. Maybe the mechanic tells me something helpful. I'm not spending to much time on what I may do with my original carb until I actually have it back. The saga continues.
Yeah! Nice! You can keep that new one safely stashed away because you know it works so i you run into a problem with your scooter down the road you can swap it on and and say, "Yep, it's the carb!"
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ScooterWoman9988 wrote:
You have a more generous view of humanity than I do. Who puts an ill fitting $25 Chinese carb into a Vespa? The mechanic removed the Keihin and so must have known the scoot calls for higher end parts that last. At the very least the consumer should have been consulted about replacement. Maybe he would have gone for a new Keihin if a new carb was needed (though that's unlikely and it mostly only needed a bit of cleaning and/or tuning since it was only running "rough"). It should have been his choice. What if he didn't know ModernVespa existed? Not everyone does and he would have been out there riding around with the throttle cable dangerously mickey moused to a carb that doesn't fit.

At the very least he should get his original carb back. Then HE can be the one to sell it on eBay or maybe used knowledge gleaned here on MV to clean it up and put it back in the scoot where it belongs.
Can't say I disagree with anything you said. I'm guessing the "mechanic" "who only speaks Spanish" is little more than a shade tree mechanic and knows very little about Vespas or scooters in general. Just knows enough to cobble a fix and make 'em run again. All the more reason for owners to do their own maintenance and repairs if possible and know enough to challenge their mechanic when they don't understand what they see or have been told. I avoid having anyone touch my bikes unless it's simply something beyond my level of expertise. And even then, I ask a LOT of questions. I don't have as generous a view of humanity as you might think. Especially when it comes to other people working on my {insert any item here}. But I just thought it best to take the high road - given what little I know first hand. I think the OP is in on a pretty good path now. And if he gets pushback along the way, he has enough info from his research to not get run over...

We were all nubies... once
⚠️ Last edited by Retro Scoot on UTC; edited 1 time
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You can find it on Ebay. There will be someone in the world who sells it.
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My zip tie theory:
The distance between the bracket you attach the two cable bolts to and the end of the cable is about 3 inches on the Hity cheap carb. I'll bet that distance is less on the Keihin carb. Thus the OEM throttle cable was 3/4 inch too short for the Hity. The zip ties position the cable closer and make up that difference. Just my theory.

If true, getting another OEM cable will not help me.

If anyone has a similar Keihin carb to my original and would measure from the two bolts to the end of the cable in the wind mechanism that would be interesting.

If I get my original carb back, ironically I may be faced with a similar dilemma that the mystery zip tie mechanic had. The Hity carb is working fine. My scooter scoots!

All I would have to do is take my recovered Keihin Carb apart and clean/fix it and put it back together, take off the Hity Carb and install the Keihin and pray! This from a mechanically inclined person who has never touched a carb before. No problem.
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Can someone please measure the distance between A and B?
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Replacing the existing cable is going to be a pain any way you do it. The headset, grip and glovebox will have to come off at a minimum.

My solution would be to disconnect the cable from the carb, and carefully trim the outer sheathing enough to make that threaded adjuster fit and hold.
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UTC quote
Ok, you will love or hate this.

This picture is the Hity carb close up to where the throttle cable is zip tied. I realize now that this part is attached to the carb by two screws and should be easily removable. So here are the steps:
1. Cut zip ties.
2. Remove the throttle cable mount piece.
3. Use a hack saw to remove the tips of the hole where two cable bolts should be attached. This allows the cable to have a straight shot to the reel, ending the cable fray going on now.
4. Use wire and epoxy or fashion a metal strap between the two bolts and into the bracket.

Maybe now the throttle cable is reliably attached while the Keihin carb, if recovered, gets resuscitated.
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@motovista avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
Billrush wrote:
Just noticed the letters on my carb pd18j and googled it and got this $24.00 carb on Amazon.
"Hity Motor PD18J 18mm Carburetor for 4 Stroke GY6 49cc 50cc Chinese Scooter 139QMB Moped Engine for Taotao Kymco Scooter with Fuel Filter Spark Plug Intake Manifold and Adjusting Shims"
Is Hity the brand on the carb, or are you assuming that's what it is? PD18J is a Keihin part number, and a lot of companies in China make a version of it, of varying degrees of quality. If the mechanic is in Miami and speaks only Spanish, I know where he probably got it, and he most likely paid more than the lowest price you can possibly pay online. pros don't use the cheapest parts they can find.
That cable is not going to work on that carb. The cable that works on that carb won't fit your vespa. The carb that came off your bike won't clean up and work. The odds are that the US dealer network is out of NCV20 carbs, because Vespa dealers are buying two or three at a time from us. We usually sell about 4-5 a month. I got 30 in on the 10th, and as of Friday, there were two left. I expect we will be out on Monday. If it starts and runs well, don't mess with it until you know your dealr can get another one.
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Hooked
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UTC quote
Didn't go back and recheck the entire thread, but I wonder if Scooterwest might be of any help?
OP
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UTC quote
Motovista wrote:
Is Hity the brand on the carb, or are you assuming that's what it is? PD18J is a Keihin part number, and a lot of companies in China make a version of it, of varying degrees of quality. If the mechanic is in Miami and speaks only Spanish, I know where he probably got it, and he most likely paid more than the lowest price you can possibly pay online. pros don't use the cheapest parts they can find.
That cable is not going to work on that carb. The cable that works on that carb won't fit your vespa. The carb that came off your bike won't clean up and work. The odds are that the US dealer network is out of NCV20 carbs, because Vespa dealers are buying two or three at a time from us. We usually sell about 4-5 a month. I got 30 in on the 10th, and as of Friday, there were two left. I expect we will be out on Monday. If it starts and runs well, don't mess with it until you know your dealr can get another one.
Dear Motovista,

Wow, your authoritative reply in both helpful and interesting.

Hity is the brand which showed up in my search and PD18j is printed on the side of that carb. Any idea how to identify which one I have. There are additional numbers.

I agree that you are right about the cables.

Then you say this " The carb that came off your bike won't clean up and work.". You know a ton more about this than me but can you say more? I thought carbs cleaned up? Very low miles but it sat years not being used and likely in old gas.

Thanks again.
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I think the carb may clean up nicely. If you need internal rubber parts for it and cannot find them may I suggest buying the 20 dollar carb off of Amazon and using the rubber gaskets and such from it to freshen up your OG Keihin. I have done this a few times now and it has worked for me.
OP
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UTC quote
MJRally wrote:
Replacing the existing cable is going to be a pain any way you do it. The headset, grip and glovebox will have to come off at a minimum.

My solution would be to disconnect the cable from the carb, and carefully trim the outer sheathing enough to make that threaded adjuster fit and hold.
MJ Rally, Can you help me understand your suggestion better please? Can you describe the cable near the threaded adjuster please? Does the threaded adjuster just pressure fit into the outer sheathing? So I could cut approx 3/4" of the sheathing off, which would place the adjuster where it would fit and hold. That seem correct?

Thanks a bunch
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UTC quote
Zip-ties are gone.
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Kevin T wrote:
If you need internal rubber parts for it and cannot find them may I suggest buying the 20 dollar carb off of Amazon....
He's already got one.
I had a tech working for me who had turned wrenches since the 1960s. He was great with all things carb, taking them apart, soaking in Yamaha carb cleaner, etc. I've never met anyone who could set an air/fuel screw like he could. And there were times he got to the point where he said to replace them, especially 50cc four stroke carbs. You can get them so they work, but you can't get them to where they are right.
Now we're going to find out why el mecanico used zip ties instead of cutting open the cable mount and jamming the cable in. After personally attempting to connect the throttle cable from a GT200 to a Mikuni TM33 using a similar method, I'm guessing it would be a good idea to carry a couple zip ties in the glove box. They are a lot easier to use on the side of the road than one of the Norma clamps off your fuel line. In terms of parts cost, an oem carb costs more than a throttle cable. If you take it to a Vespa shop, the bill for replacing the throttle cable will make you mainline amlodipine.
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UTC quote
I cut those zip ties off with considerable trepidation. Now that they are gone, they will never return again!

Speaking with my considerable experience here (none

I am confident that my throttle cable will hold.

I, however, reserve the right to supplement the current fixing. I am open to non zip-tie suggestions.

Hardware store to the rescue!
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