Modern Vespa

Many thanks… with some man handling and a long screw driver have managed to get open…

Hi,

Appears that have an electrical problem on the PK50.... the main beam is no longer working properly, its very dim, with high beam not working... Also, the indicators are misbehaving: the right front doesnt work nor does the back left.... not a bulb issue.

Has anyone got any bright ideas (excuse the pun!) ??

Are there any common issues to check first??

Thanks
J

My first thought would be the flywheel and stator. You can check the magnetism of the flywheel by seeing if it can lift a 17(i think)mm spanner. Theres also a way to measure the output of the coils but its magic electricity and a bit outside my understanding.

I'm quoting myself, the 75xl uses a 125 engine with long studs but has a 43mm crank . It's a 96m engine and identical to xl125 / ets engine with enlarged 3 stud manifold inlet. Bloody stupid . It needs a 51 mm crank , primary upgear and a 130 type kit but good news is it will fly once fitted come the summer. As to the dim lighting on your 50xl , is it a uk scoot or is it motovespa ? As it's highly likely your stator is shot , be careful on what you replace with as the motovespa ones have lighting on all the time and stator is different . Replaced mine last year as it was toast and mines two years older than yours. Beedspeed have NOS motovespa stators if this is the case.

Thanks for the tip... I get that the stator would/could affect the main beam but would that explain the strange situation with indicators (one side works at front but not rear, the other the reverse, a diagonal pattern)??
actually this was a scooter i bought in Belgium in 1989 and recently imported into UK...

I need to check because its a number of years since i read my owners manual from cover to cover but i recall there being something about the indicators not being simultaneous but working front then back, front then back.

So...... I think a normal indicator relay works by some sort of internal switch that is either on or off but does the vespa one have state A and state B? Both live (on) but A going to front left and back right and B being the reverse.

If so, is there a fault on state A, earthing issue maybe.

The indicator relay is attached to the voltage regulator on the spare wheel side, it might be worth checking the wiring etc.

Hey. Sorry to hijack this post, but I am wondering if anyone can help me out. I have imported my old (96) vespa to the UK from Ireland. I have a completed NOVA application. But It's old and won't pass the MOT (I am going to be working on it). I would like to register it, but is this possible without an MOT. Also, the .gov website says I need a cert of conformity, but is there another option.

Thanks (and sorry for the hijack)

You need mot before registering . When you register you get road tax at same time, process cannot be completed if no MOT and insurance.
Insure the scooter with bikesure on the scooter frame number! Not all insurance companies do it , bikesure does. You need insurance to drive scoot to the test centre. Mot when passed has the frame number put on mot certificate . I think you are pre certificate of conformity. If you need to check ring DVSA not DVLA . Follow the scanned docs earlier in this post that I posted, it's very simple as most entries on form aren't filled it.

When DVLA pass your registration the new reg is automatically linked to the MOT frame number so yo can then check mot status online on your new registration. Then ring bikesure and tell them your new registration number, they will update this and in about three days Police PNC system updated showing you have insurance . Send all the documents I mentioned earlier in my post . Take photos of your scoot in one piece assembled and clearly focus couple of photos on frame number and engine number. Message me direct if you need help 👍

Ps process takes six weeks average so don't get insurance cover note , get a full year. When they get round to processing at dvla if insurance expired it can stall the application .

Hi All... Looking for a little assistance please....

Have had various problems with my carburetor so looking to replace.. I have an SHBC1919E which i am replacing like for like.
The vespa has a 102cc kit.

Does anyone know what size jet i should be using?

Many thanks!

How longs your fuel been sat? If you haven't run for 3 months or more your fuel likely gone off, yes it's that quick. Doubt there's anything wrong with carb , take carb off, clean it all , stick in tank fresh e5 , leave plug out for half hour, spray some cold start spray in the air box filter holes using the fine tube attached to can, they are accessible at side of carb and kick her over.

Can't give you an approximate, but my jetting notes from SIP show 78-84 MJ.

Why not steal and clean out the main jet from the old 19 carb?

My 20mm shb on a standard 75 is 76 main but run 78 as got a bgm box pipe; I'd imagine 84 would be about right.

What exactly 102cc kit? What exhaust? Air filter? Any other modifications?

My experience(rough):
DR 102 and 19.19 - 90 main 40 idle
Polini 102 and 19.19 - 95 main 42 idle
Malossi 112 and SHBC20 - 105 main 50 idle(maybe still bit lean)

Many thanks to all... still suffering problems with the Vespa... think the lack of TLC for 25 years coming back to bite me...

Going to do an overhaul on the engine... open crank case, bearings, gaskets, seals, etc...

Will also update the gear ratios (which i have wanted to do for 30 years!)..
I have a Pollini 102 kit, the new 19.19E carb... and the standard exhaust.

What gear ratio you suggest?... and obviously worth changing the exhaust (previously didnt do this as was too obvious an upgrade for the police, my son using at 16 but now taking driving test)
Any suggestions for exhaust?

Thanks also for the feedback on jets... will look to order these as well..

Appreciate all the guidance...

There are so many options so its trying to narrow down what you are going to use it for and what the budget is.

Exhaust depends on whether you are keeping the spare wheel or not.

And do you stick with the 43mm crank and the 102 or put in a 51mm crank and go to a 125/130.

hadn't thought about changing the crank.. was imagining keeping the same.
How much effect from changing the crank?

Suspect will be a step too far but would like to understand better... make sure i consider it now...

Thanks

Seems like people 2.8-3.0 ratio with the 102 kits.

Exhaust will depend if you're carrying the spare tire like Matchy says. There's plenty of good performing exhausts that aren't that noticeable! If you must carry the spare, the Sito+ or BGM Big Box Touring PK was recommended to me by Roland87.

much appreciated!!.. will take a look
Thanks

Go for the 3.00 primary and not longer. I tried 2.86 with Polini 102, 19.19, race crank and it was too long.

About exhaust as MJ said.
Or classic Polini Snail exhaust(and be ready to fitting problems) or new Polini Original.

If you want change crank then better go for 51mm stroke and 125-135cc cylinder. It is absolutely another league

damn.... really wish you not mentioned that!!... tempting!! Will have a look at cost to buy upgraded crank... possibly a bit too much to do... but worth considering.

So you would suggest
- upgraded crank 51mm
- 130cc kit DR
- new exhaust

For the gears, if using the 130cc, go for the 2.86... (if sticking with 102 then 3)

Sound right?

2.56 for 130cc.
For sure DR will give you noticeably more fun compared to 50cc but not for a long time.
If it possible with your budget -better to look on something more powerful.

My friend have DR130 on his PK and top speed is 108 km/h. We thrashing all day long on the mountains roads and he have not any problems with DR.

On the other side near week ago I finished PK with Polini 130cc cast cylinder for my other friend and I was pleasantly surprised how smooth and juicy it runs from the bottom.

I think it more likely i will stick with the original crank... and the DR102, 1919 carb with jets... I want something which is going to last.. the current kit was added in 1990!!.. and been running well up until recently.. compression is down a little but still decent...

as a general rule, do you think the Pollini are less durable than the DR?

Do you know what crank / crank bearings are on this model (from original)?.. its a 1989 PK50XL V3x5T

Or do you have a good supplier who might be able to assist? I been using Racing Planet (based in Reading , UK) but they are struggling to be sure what is needed..

It is just IMHO but yes. A little. V5X3T?
Clutch side bearing 6303 C3
Flywheel side bearing 6204 C3 Try David Payne On Small Wheels.

You'll get a lot more torque with the longer stroke crank.

remember as well, the exhausts are designed for either 43mm or 51mm stroke so if you get an exhaust for the 102, if you go for the larger crank later on, it may not fit. - you can get the longer exhaust elbow for the polini snail but not sure about any others.

Its the same with the gearing, unless you go for something like the drt cobra you'll be upgrading again in the future.

In my mind, you could throw a bit more money at it now and do the crank and you'd have something that was both quicker and more reliable for the foreseable future. and its going to be the same amount of work on a rebuild because you are pretty much stripping the cases to change the gearing.

I've no experience of the DR, for some reason ive always gone for polini. maybe its because it comes with a sticker. I think there is more scope for tuning with the polini whereas the DR is a bit more agricultural. - it does work though and at some point Ferris will probably chip in with saying his 177 is a DR and its an absolute workhorse that takes loads of abuse.

Another consideration if you are staying with 102 is either one of the VMC cast kits, or pinasco alu 102. Pinasco probably comes with a cool sticker.

As well, i assume you are doing the work yourself, if so this guide might be helpful if you havent already seen it.

http://www.smallframes.com/tech.htm

No. 125cc manifold not fit to 50cc pipe. I tried it.

ok, think i am going to go for it...

- new 51 mm crank
- DR 130 kit
- will keep my 1919E carb - Any suggestion on jets?
- upgrade gears to 2.56
- Electric ignition (Vape Kit).. Any suggestions?

Will look at the exhaust at the end... if i have enough money...

Thanks all for help..

Matchless man .. thanks for the link... much appreciated, will definitely be helpful

No worries,

A thought as well when i was looking through the guide was that the engine they take apart has the 2 piece flyside bearing where the crank stays in the gearbox side. you'll need to take the clutch small cog off to allow the crank to stay in the flyside when it comes apart. - Unless anyone thinks different.

You've already got 12v electronic ignition. You arent going wild on tuning so i would have thought keep the ignition as it is for now. You can always swap it out without splitting the cases further down the line.

You might want to upgrade the carb if you install a 130. I'm pretty sure it'll be a bottle neck for you keeping the 19mm.

But it does mean new manifold.

Vape all the way. Just get the road version. It advances enough for extra power off the line, which is what you want. Sport only becomes useful when revving up and down higher rev range like 6000-9000rpm.

You won't feel any difference at constant 7000rpm.

SIP says 80-85 with original crankshaft and ET3 exhaust.
But it better to start from 100 or even 105 and then go down. Don't forget about idle jet - 42-45 will may ok. It is very important part. Original exhaust will restrict a lot all your upgrades.
If you want stay with spare wheel Sito+ is for you. It also noticeably quiet than Polini Banana or Malossi etc. I tried Sito+ plus with DR 102 and DR 130 and it works really good.

Here you can find lot of helpful videos about smallframe maintenance. I'm with you.
But advantages of SHB carbs is very easy to tune it and cheapness.

On the other side SIP have interesting suggestion for original 19.19 intake manifold. Seems like PHBG carb with smallframe clamp style. It also available in 17.5 size for 16.15/16.16 manifold.

The 19 SHB will definitely work, but there are better. I had a 19 on my Polini 130 ET3 build. Worked just fine. I think I was in the high 80's main jet. Upgraded to a reed 26mm 3 years later when I had money to waste.

I'd personally focus more on the exhaust than the carb if money is an issue.

thanks MJRally.... money is always an issue!... will jet the carb and look spend money on exhaust...

Don't forget that 50cc exhaust will not fit 130cc cylinder.
And if you jet carb for current exhaust and then change it you also will need to re-jet carb to suit new exhaust.

Should things like new cruciform and maybe a short 4th be considered since the cases are going to be open.

thanks @roland47.... so appears i definitely need to buy a new exhaust... probably go with the Sito + (which you recommended) as cost effective.

Based on that, what jets you suggest?

Thanks again..

Here

Think I'm almost ready to order parts..

Been thinking about the clutch that will need… based on the upgraded crank, 130cc kit, new 2.56 gears, with jetted carb…

Any advice on this please?

Was looking at this MALOSSI kit..
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/clutch-friction-plates-malossi-sport_52165110?q=MALOSSI%205216511

Thanks again

Not the right plates for a smallie.

Get this. I've used on many builds, does the job for anything not extreme…

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/clutch-friction-plates-newfren-race_93497500