Modern Vespa

I stuck this question in the "Topping Off Coolant" thread, but given that the word "descaler" doesn't show up in the search I did, (other than my one question in the other thread), I thought I would give it its own topic.

The Hayes manual for my Vespa, recommends flushing, then filling with water and descaler, running the engine, flushing again, and then filling with coolant.

Does anyone do this? It seems if you are running with coolant and distilled water, you wouldn't need to descale the system.

And if anyone does, what do you use? I know there are some descalers out there that should not be used with aluminum radiators, but beyond that my knowledge fails...

In most radiators, I run a cycle of plain distilled water through. Drain the coolant out, and replace with distilled water. Get it up to temperature, let it cool and drain. If it still looks cruddy, I run a 2nd cycle through. You can use Simple Green Pro HD as a descaler. It should be mixed 15:1 and ran through your system until it gets hot enough for the thermostat to open. You can buy this at Lowes. Simple Green has a video showing how to do this on their website. Honestly, I have not run into a scooter radiator cruddy enough to have to do this. My 1991 Ford Ranger was a different story.

Never have I ever.
On any vehicle.

Use distilled water only; there's nothing to leave a scale.
Change the coolant before it becomes corrosive, and your system's bits won't become the scale, either.

Descale the radiators in your Vespa every time you descale the radiator in your car.

Never seen a Vespa rad requiring descaling yet. And I've seen a lot of Vespas in the workshop. Plus caution is needed with any descaling process. Often a rad will leak after doing this, if it doesn't you're lucky! Just flush and refill at the correct time interval with the correct coolant, and scaling won't happen. Most pros don't suggest descaling as a regular thing. It's only ever needed if the system is neglected.

Descaler is... snake oil then?

Yes, and a corrosive one at that.

Have a look down the filler neck and see if there is scale in the radiator. If there is, then a descaler might be needed. Otherwise, not.

Some of us buy used bikes/scooters/cars, and prior owners can't always be trusted to do the right thing. So it may be necessary when you acquire a new-to-you bike. Coolant is one of the things I routinely change on a new-to-me vehicle, along with oil, brake fluid, etc.

If you change the coolant on the recommended schedule, and use the proper stuff, scale should never occur. Especially for bikes and scooters, when the capacity is small, I buy the manufacturer's recommended coolant, almost always prediluted. So no water needed.

Sounds good everyone - I'll skip the descaler.

I find myself wondering if there are better repair and maintenance manuals out there than the Haynes, but I think the answer is "no." Youtube seems to have taken over as the best go to resource of choice anyway.

Still, It's nice to have a shop manual out on the porch to refer to while performing a job. The photographs in the Haynes manuals are just so bad. I was leafing through it this morning and marveling at the photographs with arrows pointing at O-rings in the photograph, when, in fact, there is no O-ring discernible in the photograph. The Haynes manual photographs are almost like the mechanic's version of "Where's Waldo."

I still think a good manual with hand drawings akin to "How to Keep Your VW alive..." would be just the things for home Vespa mechanics.

Have you looked at the Shop Manuals in the Wiki? There are several for various years of GTS/GTV scooters. I have a manufacturers Shop Manual for each of my scooters which has sometimes proved good to have. I confess, though, that I usually find Robot's You-tube videos the most useful

important in a coffee machine as tap water will cause scale even when using water filters. no normal person uses distilled water in a coffee machine ☕☕☕

in a scoot that has coolant *mixed/premixed with distilled* ... probably not so?

also scoots run at a lower temp and pressure than a coffee machine

(just pondering, i've never thought about this before as I don't service my own bike)

The new Haynes Manuals for GT/GTS range of scooters is brilliant. I think too, that some of the subjects covered within the manual can be a little harder to understand by the uninitiated in terms of how to interpret/understand the text. But that is pretty much the same for all the workshop manuals. Overall I give the Haynes Manual 9 out of 10.

Actually we use filtered water, in both our coffee maker, and when making tea. The pitcher we use, Zerowater, in addition to removing various nasty chemicals, claims no dissolved minerals after filtering. Makes the best-tasting tea and coffee.

They even prove an electronic gadget to monitor the water. When the output hits 6 PPM dissolved solids, time to change the filter. By comparison, tap water in our area measures 300-400 PPM dissolved solids depending on the season, as it is pretty hard, not to mention the potpourri of ag and industrial chemicals normally present.

Kinda off topic, but unfortunately there are no descalers for humans.

And for those who pooh-pooh the need for distilled water in radiators, I must bring up a car my SO bought, sight unseen by me, that had so much scale deposited in the engine and elsewhere that the heater was inoperative, even after a core change, and I had to drill down through the minerals (literally) in the engine air bleed screw hole when I changed the coolant so I could burp the air out of the system. Was afraid to 'descale' it lest it spring a number of coolant leaks in the radiator and elsewhere, so traded it off for another car.

I bought a 1990 Honda ST1100 that had sat unused with the cooling system half full (or half empty if that is your way) for 10 years prior to me buying it. Once I saw the inside of the filler neck and pulled out the corroded thermostat, I decided to use a descaler. However that is the only time I have ever needed to do that.

When I change coolant, I drain the old stuff, leave all drain ports open and wash the system through using tap water and hose. Once that is running out clear, I stop the hose and allow all the wash water to drain, then refill the system with the prescribed coolant mix.

Hmm, I have been taking a descaler for years...Crestor...

I also do.

Filtered is better than tap but still not as pure as distilled

I thought distilled was bad for coffee machines, but understand this is the equivalent of an oil thread for coffee snobs.

Typically the gadget measures 1 or 2 PPM dissolved solids, technically not quite distilled, but probably not far enough off to make a difference. Wife hasn't had to de-lime the coffeemaker since we got the new pitchers, been about 2 years now, and she drinks 2 pots a day. Previously used Britta pitchers, but the Zerowater seems to do a much better job.

And the Crestor is meant to descale something else. But in my case, it doesn't work either.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, if you happen to pick up a badly scaled scooter, probably want to be careful with the descaler. Pretty good chance you'll end up with a radiator or gasket leak. And you'll want to flush the crap out of it, both to remove the chemical and any scale particles, which probably won't play well with water pump seals.