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@sethward avatar
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UTC quote
My 2009 GTV 250's fuel pump died. Since the part and associated labor were covered by a factory recall (bravo, Vespa), I took the GTV to my nearest Vespa dealer - four hours away.

While it was in, I had the tires replaced. I specified Pirellis. The dealer completed the work, loaded the GTV into my truck, and I headed home. When I was 3/4 of the way back, stopped at a gas station, I realized the mechanic had put a Pirelli on the front and a knobby Dunlop D604 on the back.

The dealer acknowledged his mistake. He offered to reduce my bill so I would pay for the cheaper Dunlop instead of the more expensive Pirelli, but I think he shouldn't charge me for the Dunlop at all. It's not what I ordered, it doesn't match the front, and I don't like the ride. How could anyone mount that knobby Dunlop and not know something was amiss? Especially after just installing a Pirelli on the front...

The dealer also offered to replace the Dunlop with a Pirelli, but that would mean eight more hours of driving for me - four there and four back. On the other hand, this wouldn't be an issue if I lived near the dealer, and where I live is outside his control.

Am I being unreasonable?
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UTC quote
Yes.

You should have looked it over while at the dealer.
You left. Having paid the bill.

Deal's done.
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Molto Verboso
2022 Liberty 150S-"Meg"-SOLD
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UTC quote
In a perfect world, he'd comp you the Dunlop and the installation labor. Then, you could order a Pirelli online (at a considerable savings) and take it to a local motorcycle shop that also carries scooters. Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, and Kymco scooters have fairly similar procedures for removing the rear wheel.

Alternately, you could pull the wheel yourself and take it and the tire to a local shop, get the tire mounted, put the wheel back on yourself, and be done. You could probably sell the tire on CL.

Like I said, in a perfect world.
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Hooked
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UTC quote
That's a tricky situation. I am not sure how I would handle this. Clearly he has unqualified people working there so do you really want them touching your stuff again? I might be tempted to have him send you the tire you paid for at his expense and keep his Dunlop for your trouble. If you drive it to him the tire isn't re-sellable for him anyway so he's taking a loss one way or another. The important thing is that it is isn't you who is taking any kind of loss.... in time or money.

If I were this dealer, I would have one less employee because I just fired one. So add that to the issue of needing to make you happy and it's not easy.

I am curious how others might seek a remedy here. Can you call your credit card company and ask if they can help?
OP
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UTC quote
You guys are probably right. I am just extra sore because he charged me a lot for the tires, and then an extra $300 labor to change them and all the fluids on the bike. It was nearly $600, all in, which seems steep to me. But I signed the check and left. So damnit.
UTC

Hooked
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UTC quote
sethward wrote:
You guys are probably right. I am just extra sore because he charged me a lot for the tires, and then an extra $300 labor to change them and all the fluids on the bike. It was nearly $600, all in, which seems steep to me. But I signed the check and left. So damnit.
I think he needs to get you to a matched set of tires because it is unsafe to have a mixed set, especially if they are not the same type of tire! That would seem like a liability to me. If you have his admission in an email he is not in a strong place to dictate terms of your happiness.

If you both end up giving a little to get you happy that is good ju-ju but not a requisite for the transaction that is not yet complete. .02
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I never seem to understand why people think that dealers are the be all end all and will drive massive distances to have them do half assed sloppy work when there is in all likelihood a perfectly qualified independent shop or dealer locally.

that being said... at the very least he should comp you the cost of the tire. if you can squeeze some labor coming or going-- they installed the wrong tire, now you have to pay to have the right tire put on--- that would be generous. in an ideal world, he'd send you a tire and knock the labor off for install for being a slippery little shit.

otherwise, truck that mess back there and make a big stink on the door step and get what you paid for and some dough knocked off for that bullshittery. but, sit down, pour something nice and ruminate on what the true cost of what your time is worth.

anyway, that mess is on yours. how did you not test ride it or check the tires? how did you not see that it looked odd when you loaded it up?

best case, they make right and you get a little something. worst case, they tell you to pound sand. you take your lumps and move on and find a better, more trustworthy shop or mechanic.

but $600 is a bit egregious. that's about 300 in labor (depending on rate) so I'm not sure where the other 300 is coming from.

best of luck with whatever path you take.
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UTC quote
I agree on dealers, but I had to use one in this case because that was the only way Vespa would cover the fuel pump and the labor to change it out, which was another $600. I am extremely impressed they would cover anything on a 2009 bike, but they did.

On the labor, interesting facts: the bike was there for three hours, at least one of those three hours was covered by Vespa for the fuel pump replacement, and the dealer charged me for 3.5 hours. But I digress...

I should have tested it, etc., but I had my wife and kid with me. We had driven four hours, then screwed around for another three hours while they worked, so we all wanted to get home. When the mechanic and I loaded it, I mentioned that the front was a lot knobbier than the back, but he said that was for rain performance and that he "loved these tires." I didn't think to check that they were at least the same brand because I never suspected they would be different. I'm definitely not a scooter tire expert.
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depending on the work you had performed, the "all the fluids" thing and what not, that could be an easy 3.5

my guess is that they had two techs working on the bike at the simultaneously. that's not an uncommon practice and one that I frequently employed when I was a service manager.

but my spidey senses are tingling and I think these guys are stone cold shysters. classic rip off artists that give all mechanics a bad name and reputation.

you were in a rush, didn't slow your roll and got lit up my man. what's worse, is that they probably knew it too.

p.s. if you have a copy of the invoice i would love to see it, or a break down of it. no personal or dealer info though.
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UTC quote
They only have one tech. Tiny shop. RE: "all the fluids," I asked for motor oil, gear oil, brake fluid, coolant, and clean/oil the air filter. I also asked to check belts, weights, rotors, and pads. They billed for motor oil, brake fluid, and coolant. I have no idea what they actually did as I do not trust them. I will redact and post the invoice on Monday when I'm near my scanner.
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UTC quote
there is absolutely NO way in hell that all of that work was done in 3hrs

two techs that showed up with their Johnny hustle pants on? mayyybbbbeee. but they'd have to be product and tech procedure savvy. like, yank the wheel to do the tire and drop the motor to do the gear oil and drain the oil at the same, while oil is draining check the air filter and trans out. knock out the rear flush and bleed while that's all apart, then get all that half ass together so you can get it back on the stand and start the coolant flush and bounce up front and do the front flush and bleed and tire.

not saying it couldn't be done, but you'd need to be Johnny kick-ass crazy style, or two techs that work very well together.

correction: there's no way in hell that work could be done properly or well in that amount of time. which, we see, by the tire, it was not.
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UTC quote
So you think one tech in the middle of Will Rogers country doing it in three hours might be bullshit? I would normally do everything but the tires and fuel pump myself, but I figured I might as well have it taken care of while it was in.
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I'm saying it's bullshit.
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UTC quote
The person I'm angriest with is me. I can come up with 100 reasons why it was a shitty deal after-the-fact, but at the time I was like a lamb being led into slaughter. SMH.
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UTC quote
Madison Sully wrote:
Yes.

You should have looked it over while at the dealer.
You left. Having paid the bill.

Deal's done.
+ 1
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UTC quote
If it were me, I'd go straight back to the dealer, 8hrs of driving or not, just to get the injustice put right! And always check the work before leaving the dealers. You will feel much better afterwards, I promise!
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... and ties the dealer to a pole near an anthill after sprinkling it with honey ...
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Yeah nah.
Tell the dealer you'll ride back to get the tyre changed at their cost. Or they can send you the tyre and you'll get it fitted locally (at your cost) and they can get the tyre picked up.

Big issue is that dunlop is speed rated at 74mph.
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UTC quote
It stinks that you pay to have a service done and it gets done wrong. This seems to be happening more often nowadays, or its just the internet bringing these issues to light more often. I now go over everything when I have something done on my scooter, but sometimes things will still slip by. I hate Dunlops, I call them Dunplops in the rain because you'll go down. Don't settle for lame service. Get it corrected. And warn others about this dealership.
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UTC quote
sethward wrote:
On the labor, interesting facts: the bike was there for three hours, at least one of those three hours was covered by Vespa for the fuel pump replacement, and the dealer charged me for 3.5 hours. But I digress...

I should have tested it, etc., but I had my wife and kid with me. We had driven four hours, then screwed around for another three hours while they worked, so we all wanted to get home. When the mechanic and I loaded it, I mentioned that the front was a lot knobbier than the back, but he said that was for rain performance and that he "loved these tires." I didn't think to check that they were at least the same brand because I never suspected they would be different. I'm definitely not a scooter tire expert.
It is not unreasonable to expect and to get what one paid for. IMO, the installation of different tread styles is outrageous and unacceptable. IIWY, I would demand that he refund the cost of the offending tire and the labor charge immediately. When he refuses, send him certified mail restating your demand and advising him that he/his store will be held responsible for injury to you and/or others and damage to your property and/or others by way of his negligence.
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znomit wrote:
Tell the dealer you'll ride back to get the tyre changed at their cost.
level that against what your time is worth. take some lumps there unless you don't got nothing else to do. I understand the whole "it's the principal" and all that, but mannn... I got better shit to do. if a couple of phone calls doesn't sort it out then chalk a loss and move on.
Quote:
Or they can send you the tyre and you'll get it fitted locally (at your cost) and they can get the tyre picked up.
this was my thought, as seen above, but in a perfect world they send you the tire AND pick up the tab of install.

you want that shitty dunlop back that you tried to smoke me on? cool, it's at the curb. trash comes on Tuesday.
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rgk wrote:
It is not unreasonable to expect and to get what one paid for. IMO, the installation of different tread styles is outrageous and unacceptable. IIWY, I would demand that he refund the cost of the offending tire and the labor charge immediately. When he refuses, send him certified mail restating your demand and advising him that he/his store will be held responsible for injury to you and/or others and damage to your property and/or others by way of his negligence.
I understand and respect that it is not unreasonable to get what you paid for. however, two points:
1- he did not inspect the bike before taking delivery
2- he paid and adios'd

while I DO find this unacceptable, on the whole, all of it could've been avoided by a momentary glance, a quick check, a perusal of the RO and maybe not being in a rush.

but your idea of demands and strongly worded letters via certified mail has got me chuckling this morning. so thanks for that.
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UTC quote
greasy125 wrote:
I understand and respect that it is not unreasonable to get what you paid for. however, two points:
1- he did not inspect the bike before taking delivery
2- he paid and adios'd

while I DO find this unacceptable, on the whole, all of it could've been avoided by a momentary glance, a quick check, a perusal of the RO and maybe not being in a rush.

but your idea of demands and strongly worded letters via certified mail has got me chuckling this morning. so thanks for that.
While it is true he could have noted it upon loading, then what? He drove 4hrs with his family and had been there all day to have this done. The shop was likely closing at pickup. So what would they have done? Stayed overnight so it could be swapped out in the am? The sad part is the lack of care taken by the shop. How could the tech put two completely different tires on? He obviously knew exactly what he was doing and just hoped it wouldn't be noticed. He probably pumped his fist and said "Yes!!!" as soon as they drove off.

I had a situation with tires on a Genuine Blur I used to own a few years ago. They put the wrong size tire on (same make and model) due to it being difficult to find the correct size. They didn't tell me about it and when I noticed it when I got home I posted about it on the Genuine forums. The dealer ended up getting the correct tire for me, but the dealer wouldn't work on my bike any more as he said I had trashed them on the forums (I didn't, I just posted exactly what had happened).
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Not to pile on, but I have to say something. First, agree on all points with Greasy - deals with this every day, all day, then comes on here to moderate. Second, call them, try to sort it out, if they are at willing to ship you the right one, grab onto that and walk away. You will be able to find someone that will mount that tire. If they do good, you found a good local to deal with. Third, (and this is NOT directed towards this poster),I think it is a bit batty that at least once a week a poster on here comes on to complain about the price of maintaining their Vespa. People: you are riding the Cadillac of scooters. You paid the big bucks for them, the parts for the most part are made in Europe, so have to be shipped in, and the shops do have overhead to cover. It all adds up. Now, I understand not everyone wants to work or aspires to wrench on their machines. And kudos to Vespa for standing behind their recalls - a rare thing these days. But if the costs of owning one of these scoots is prohibited to you, find local shop or a guy like me that works out of his garage, or buy a different scoot. Rant done, I'm sure I'll get kicked off MV for this. Thanks for reading.
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chickdr wrote:
While it is true he could have noted it upon loading, then what? He drove 4hrs with his family and had been there all day to have this done. The shop was likely closing at pickup. So what would they have done? Stayed overnight so it could be swapped out in the am? The sad part is the lack of care taken by the shop. How could the tech put two completely different tires on? He obviously knew exactly what he was doing and just hoped it wouldn't be noticed. He probably pumped his fist and said "Yes!!!" as soon as they drove off.

I had a situation with tires on a Genuine Blur I used to own a few years ago. They put the wrong size tire on (same make and model) due to it being difficult to find the correct size. They didn't tell me about it and when I noticed it when I got home I posted about it on the Genuine forums. The dealer ended up getting the correct tire for me, but the dealer wouldn't work on my bike any more as he said I had trashed them on the forums (I didn't, I just posted exactly what had happened).
stopped, said this isn't the correct tire and what we agreed on, where do we go from here. then have an adult conversation about what needs to happen next.

I fully and totally agree the shop were little shit birds and total hacks.

but OP was in a rush and wanted to get out of dodge. so you get what you get.

had it been noticed and brought to attention I'm sure some kind of situation could've been worked out.

I'll give you dollars to donuts betting odds that they ordered the pair for that job and sold the one a a few days before and ordered another on the fly hoping they'd make JIT and it didn't get there, boss didn't wanna show his ass and just told the tech: what do we got that fits? oh, okay, knock that one on.

but there's always two sides to a story.
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greasy125 wrote:
but there's always two sides to a story.
This.
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Tierney wrote:
Not to pile on, but I have to say something. First, agree on all points with Greasy - deals with this every day, all day, then comes on here to moderate.
nah, after 15ish years of that horseshit I'm more a "boutique" repair shop. I get to pick and choose my jobs, take on restorations and do paint and body work, rebuild motors or just sit by the pool and pet my kittehs.
Quote:
Second, call them, try to sort it out, if they are at willing to ship you the right one, grab onto that and walk away. You will be able to find someone that will mount that tire. If they do good, you found a good local to deal with.
this
Quote:
Third, (and this is NOT directed towards this poster),I think it is a bit batty that at least once a week a poster on here comes on to complain about the price of maintaining their Vespa. People: you are riding the Cadillac of scooters. You paid the big bucks for them, the parts for the most part are made in Europe, so have to be shipped in, and the shops do have overhead to cover. It all adds up. Now, I understand not everyone wants to work or aspires to wrench on their machines. And kudos to Vespa for standing behind their recalls - a rare thing these days. But if the costs of owning one of these scoots is prohibited to you, find local shop or a guy like me that works out of his garage, or buy a different scoot.
the audacity of people thinking it should be jiffy lube prices and preposterous time lines is out of control. you can't call me at 5pm on a Friday with a mystery problem and expect to get it at 9am Saturday. ease it on down the road on that one buddy.
Quote:
I'm sure I'll get kicked off MV for this.
nah, never.
OP
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One thing that pissed me off about this guy is that he had an answer for everything. When I pointed out he charged me for 3.5 hours when I was only there for 3, his defenses were:

1. He helped me load and unload,

2. His labor rates are cheaper than competitors,

3. He is allowed to charge "actual book time" for his labor (whatever the that means), and

4. That I'd departed 30 minutes after I actually had. When I showed him the timestamp on his invoice (the one that supposedly detailed his 3.5 hours of labor), he told me the timestamp was just when he printed the invoice and not when the bike was finished. Not sure how he would have printed an invoice with all the labor on it prior to said labor being finished - but that's not what really happened.

All of that BS just lights my fuse. If he would have been straight with me, I'd have licked my wounds privately and not be on here complaining to you guys.
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what a piece of work. I'd almost ride all the way back out there and make him comp the tire and the labor and sit there and watch them while they did it just for that level of nonsense.

load and unload? GTFO on that mess!
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UTC quote
My dealer will collect my bike and return it to me free of charge within 50kms.

I think both parties erred in this tyre case.
The Dealer did not deliver what the customer ordered.
The customer did not verify that he got what he ordered.
Shipping a Perelli to the customer seems to me a fair correction.
Shippping the Dunlop back would be a fair quid pro quo.

As for the labour charge of 3.5 hours , I am not informed enough regarding US practices in that regard. Out here, if the repairs are charged at "book rates" then each is time rated and can be verified to make up the total. Charging for loading and unloading is BS !
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@dooglas avatar
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 13462
Location: Oregon City, OR
UTC quote
Stromrider wrote:
If it were me, I'd go straight back to the dealer, 8hrs of driving or not, just to get the injustice put right! And always check the work before leaving the dealers. You will feel much better afterwards, I promise!
This is what I would do as well. Yes, that is a pain in the patootie, but his mistake and he should fix it. Who the hell puts a Dunlop knobby on a GTV anyway?!? The 8 hour drive is your penalty for not checking when you should. The mount, demount, remount correct tire is his penalty for having an incompetent tech.
@nightwing avatar
UTC

Contributor
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8575
Location: New Hampshire
 
Contributor
@nightwing avatar
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8575
Location: New Hampshire
UTC quote
If you do make the trip, make sure he has your tire in stock.
UTC

Addicted
SilverWing 600-- 4nprevious Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: chattanooga tn
 
Addicted
SilverWing 600-- 4nprevious Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: chattanooga tn
UTC quote
simple and safest way---order proper tire, install yourself----these scooters are for riding, not hauling in your truck.
@grouper avatar
UTC

Hooked
2020 GTS 300 hpe Touring
Joined: UTC
Posts: 433
Location: Upstate SC
 
Hooked
@grouper avatar
2020 GTS 300 hpe Touring
Joined: UTC
Posts: 433
Location: Upstate SC
UTC quote
It would not be worth it to me to drive 8 hours back to the dealer. I would request that they send the correct tire and I would be willing to ship the wrong tire back to them at their expense.
@mopedlar avatar
UTC

Addicted
2001 GTS Super (white), 2021 GTS Super (yellow), 1976 Bianchi Snark moped, 1980 General 5 Star moped
Joined: UTC
Posts: 775
Location: Powhatan, Virginia
 
Addicted
@mopedlar avatar
2001 GTS Super (white), 2021 GTS Super (yellow), 1976 Bianchi Snark moped, 1980 General 5 Star moped
Joined: UTC
Posts: 775
Location: Powhatan, Virginia
UTC quote
This.....
grouper wrote:
It would not be worth it to me to drive 8 hours back to the dealer. I would request that they send the correct tire and I would be willing to ship the wrong tire back to them at their expense.
OP
@sethward avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
2009 GTV 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 60
Location: Little Rock, AR
 
Enthusiast
@sethward avatar
2009 GTV 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 60
Location: Little Rock, AR
UTC quote
After thinking about this and reading everyone's excellent suggestions, here's what I'm gonna do:

1. Dispute it with my credit card company.

2. Have a visit with Vespa USA about the dealer in question.

3. Never give the dealer business again.

Going back is out of the question - the bridge has been burned and I am not sure he'd even let me back in the store after I called him out on all his BS. That's a shame, too, as he had several nice Moto Guzzis and I have been thinking about getting one. What a clown.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14997
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14997
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
Going straight to cc dispute?

Did you call and try to work something out? Or just straight to the nuclear option?
@dooglas avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 13462
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@dooglas avatar
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 13462
Location: Oregon City, OR
UTC quote
grouper wrote:
It would not be worth it to me to drive 8 hours back to the dealer.
sethward wrote:
The dealer also offered to replace the Dunlop with a Pirelli, but that would mean eight more hours of driving for me - four there and four back.
OP
@sethward avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
2009 GTV 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 60
Location: Little Rock, AR
 
Enthusiast
@sethward avatar
2009 GTV 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 60
Location: Little Rock, AR
UTC quote
I've already tried reasoning with him to no avail. It's not worth suing over, but maybe the CC company will provide some relief if I lay out the facts. If they don't, I will just let it be over knowing his shadiness will eventually catch up with him.
@znomit avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, [s]Primavera[/s], S50, too many pushbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10620
Location: Hermit Kingdom
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@znomit avatar
LX190 Friday afternoon special, [s]Primavera[/s], S50, too many pushbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10620
Location: Hermit Kingdom
UTC quote
Hows the ride with that tyre btw?
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