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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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Location: Scarborough UK
 
Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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Location: Scarborough UK
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I already have a Vespa GTS 300 &0th Anniversary but had a hankering for something more retro looking with a manual gear shift. Did some searching and found this little gem only about 3 hours away from where I live. Obtained Wife and daughter's approval, so hooked the trailer up and off I went.
It does need work on the electrics, which I'm hoping you knowledgeable peeps will assist me with.
Anyway, here's a pic.
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@qascooter avatar
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Location: Florence, OR
 
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@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Woah CB, Nice! Congratulations! Somebody's done a bunch of custom work on that PX. Disc brake, paint, seat, etc. Do you know what's been done to the engine?

What work on the electrical needs to be done?

And, of course, more pics would be fantastic
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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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Location: Scarborough UK
 
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UTC quote
hey qascooter, thanks for your reply. Some work has been done to the engine, it's allegedly got a DR 180 kit on it but I'm not qualified enough to confirm - yet. I will be removing some of the custom parts like the crystal clear indicators and some of the chrome. It also has battle of Britain rear light which isn't my thing. There are chromed twisted metals levers, stand, kicker and rack which will be coming off. I thinking of going for an orange and black theme.
In relation to the electric the electric start doesn't work. I was told it was a flat battery but I've replaced that and still nothing. Will do more investigating.
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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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Location: Scarborough UK
 
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UTC quote
Also needs rear brake cable, in case anyone was wondering what was hanging down by the rear wheel..
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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For the starter motor issue, with a Known Good battery, do you hear a fairly distinct "click" when you hit the starter button? If you don't then it's probably the relay, which is like a 50 cent part--they're so cheap you have to buy them in like ten packs on Amazon. It might also be that the wiring for the relay from the switch is damaged.

You can also check the motor by bypassing the switch. Get a piece of electrical wire--an old lamp cord you don't mind cutting and stripping the ends will do fine--and touching one end to the positive terminal of the battery and the other to the positive terminal on the motor (it'll be the one with a heavy gauge wire attached). If it spins, you're good and you're back to the relay or wiring.

To check the relay, you can do the same test with your lamp cord. Touch the battery to to the relay's trigger pin and if it starts, it's the wiring. If not, it's the relay.

If it's a DR, when you remove the cylinder shroud and flywheel cover, you'll see a small "DR" on the side at the base of the cylinder. You'll also see a couple of cooling fins have been ground off to create clearance for the starter ring on the flywheel.
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1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
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cbdubs wrote:
Also needs rear brake cable, in case anyone was wondering what was hanging down by the rear wheel..
That's debatable!
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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cbdubs wrote:
Also needs rear brake cable, in case anyone was wondering what was hanging down by the rear wheel..
Meh. Stopping is overrated.
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2007 Stella 225
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@christopher_55934 avatar
2007 Stella 225
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UTC quote
Did you have the clutch pulled in when you tried starting it? Mine had a neutral safety switch.
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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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UTC quote
Thanks for the comments.
I've ordered a new relay as there was no click, either with or without pulling the clutch in. Starts first kick with the clutch out using the kicker.
Question, with a good battery fitted, when you turn on the ignition should any thing work? The only thing that does work is the horn. No lights, no fuel gauge nothing at all except the horn. Is this normal because the engine isn't running? These are sooo different to my GTS but I love it just the same.
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1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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@safis avatar
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Yes, only the horn works on the European battery models. Everything else is AC powered when engine is running...
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1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
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@seamus26 avatar
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UTC quote
That looks a lot like Vespa's "new" Impulse Orange for 2021.

I like it ... a lot.
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Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
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SaFiS wrote:
Yes, only the horn works on the European battery models. Everything else is AC powered when engine is running...
Also the starter works off the battery.
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PK50XL, PK100S, ET3, Matchless G80S, Honda CBR400RR, Ducati ST4S
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Phangtonpower wrote:
Also the starter works off the battery.
You'd certainly hope so wouldn't you.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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SaFiS wrote:
Yes, only the horn works on the European battery models. Everything else is AC powered when engine is running...
That's Interesting. I'd have figured they'd be consistent with US Reg's for simplification of manufacturing and also run the brake/tail lights and turn signals off the battery/DC side.
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Lucky
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Phangtonpower wrote:
Also the starter works off the battery.
My starter works off my foot
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Enthusiast
'13 LML '70 Sprint Veloce
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UTC quote
I'm sorry to ask.. does it definitely still have a starter motor? Razz emoticon
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1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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@safis avatar
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chandlerman wrote:
That's Interesting. I'd have figured they'd be consistent with US Reg's for simplification of manufacturing and also run the brake/tail lights and turn signals off the battery/DC side.
Glad they didn't Razz emoticon Razz emoticon

They kept it simpler here (although they were a few variations between countries following the local regulations). But most models, only had the horn and starter run by the battery and everything else on AC.

They also did a "limited" run with a 7 wires stator that had the starter, turn signals and horn run by the battery. It was a failure (stators and regulators were prone to fail) so they returned to the usual 5 wires stator with black & blue going to the regulator...
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1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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@safis avatar
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Phangtonpower wrote:
Also the starter works off the battery.
I thought this was a given... Laughing emoticon Laughing emoticon Laughing emoticon
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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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Location: Scarborough UK
 
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UTC quote
cbdubs wrote:
Also needs rear brake cable, in case anyone was wondering what was hanging down by the rear wheel..
So what I thought was the rear brake cable that was broken - it isn't For some reason a PO ran an additional cable from the clutch to the rear brake (?) Both normal brake and clutch cables appear to work fine with no issues so why run another cable, unless it was some kind of bodge.. Anyway, unless told otherwise I'm just going to cut if off.
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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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Location: Scarborough UK
 
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UTC quote
Phangtonpower wrote:
Also the starter works off the battery.
New battery fitted. I have also ordered new starter motor relay and voltage regulator as I just want it to work as Vespa intended. Will update once these arrive and are fitted.

Quick q if I May: the kicker works with the clutch leaver out, but will I need to pull it in for the electric start? Just wondered........
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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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Dodgy aftermarket grips and twisted metal levers removed and put back to normal.
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Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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Looks like all the original hub studs have been removed and replaced with hex head bolts. That's a wee bit hideous, but at least it's not dangerous.
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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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nomadinsiam wrote:
Looks like all the original hub studs have been removed and replaced with hex head bolts. That's a wee bit hideous, but at least it's not dangerous.
Is that the 13mm bolts you are referring to? What should they be? Quite happy to swap them out for the right stuff.
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@safis avatar
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Leave them. They probably put them cause of the tubeless rims. Normal studs are short for the rims and tend to strip or the nuts coming loose. You can replace them with button head allen bolts that look better. You'll need them to be M8 x 35mm...
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Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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UTC quote
They're fine. I have a couple like those where the original ones stripped out of the aluminum hub. The easiest fix is what you have.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
Leave them. They probably put them cause of the tubeless rims. Normal studs are short for the rims and tend to strip or the nuts coming loose. You can replace them with button head allen bolts that look better. You'll need them to be M8 x 35mm...
interestingly, I just measured this a week or two ago. My Pinasco Split Tubeless are 8mm thick at the mounting holes. My Tubeless SIP rims are 6mm. A stock steel split rim was also 6mm.
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'07 GTS250ie "Mechanical Squirrel", '66 Honda Benly, '19 Suzuki 250 cafe "Mouse", '42 Henschel PzKw VI Tiger
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Phangtonpower wrote:
Also the starter works off the battery.
Don't laugh, a friend of mine had a Honda 50 back in the early eighties, not the step through but some miserable not quite a moped thing... anyway, the starter was powered by the kickstarter.

You kicked the starter though three times, this wound a big clockwork spring, and then you pulled a little trigger on the handlebar which released the spring which in turn spun he engine fast enough that it would likely start out of fear.

I've no idea why they did this, maybe they were just trying to prove to the Germans that they could needlessly overcomplicate things as well.

It did work really well though ( being a Honda) and his mom didn't have to scuff her nice shoes as it was an amazingly low effort way to put the energy into starting the engine.
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chandlerman wrote:
interestingly, I just measured this a week or two ago. My Pinasco Split Tubeless are 8mm thick at the mounting holes. My Tubeless SIP rims are 6mm. A stock steel split rim was also 6mm.
How is this possible since even the original studs and nuts are M8??
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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@chandlerman avatar
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
How is this possible since even the original studs and nuts are M8??
The thickness of the rims, not the size of the holes.
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@safis avatar
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chandlerman wrote:
The thickness of the rims, not the size of the holes.
Now it makes sense. Laughing emoticon Laughing emoticon
I think the problem with the SIP rims is the Nord-Lock washers that "make" the studs come short...
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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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Got some more work done on my toy. Looks a bit more stock now. Took it out for my first ride on Sunday too - that was interesting. Just had meander through town and along our sea front, did about 10 miles. It was fun and made me smile.
have a few gremlins to sort, horn sounds the minute you turn the ignition on so will have to look at the rats nest of wiring behind the horn cover. Also, swapped out the electric start relay but still no joy there, relay doesn't even click so more investigation needed there too. hey ho, the joy of older machines.
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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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Investigated my start issue a bit more. Not sure if I should have the safety lock out relay or not but I joined two pink wires together under the horn cover and now the starter motor turns over. It just whirs away though and doesn't seem to actually turn the engine over. I've done a search on here and I think I will be removing the starter motor tonight for further investigation.
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2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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New rack should be ready soon as I was having one fabbed up to fit the same mounting holes that a PO had drilled. I'm looking forward to getting it.
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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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Location: Scarborough UK
 
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So, starter motor removed (after following some excellent instructions on here) and it transpires I have no ring gear, hence the starter just whirring away. Was it removed to make space for the 180 kit or just some kind of weight saving. This would seem pointless as they don't weigh a great deal and if it was weight saving, why leave the starter motor still bolted up. Please can someone advise as I really would like to reinstate the electric start if I can. Thanks
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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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So whilst doing some checks prior to taking it for MOT, I notice that the suspension pin/spindle had a load of play. I removed the forks (as per the instructions on this site - cheers!). Managed to get the old one out eventually, got the new pin in and whilst pressing in the bearing end caps, the new spindle casting cracked. So what do I do now? Buy another and try again or get the aluminium welded up? Not sure what top do......Anyway, pics below:
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@safis avatar
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Don’t weld it, replace it. It’s your life on the line…
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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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Location: Scarborough UK
 
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UTC quote
Do you think I just bought one that was cast badly? I was thinking by welding it back up it may be stronger than the original casting by increasing the thickness of the ally.
More than happy to buy another and a new pin.
@seamus26 avatar
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Ossessionato
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
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@seamus26 avatar
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
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UTC quote
cbdubs wrote:
Do you think I just bought one that was cast badly? I was thinking by welding it back up it may be stronger than the original casting by increasing the thickness of the ally.
More than happy to buy another and a new pin.
I worked for a long time in casting and am continually amazed at castings that pass quality and make it into the field. That is one ugly part.

It's broken. I would replace it, if possible. It could have been an excessively hard hit that cracked it or there could be other underlying issues.
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1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
Was it supposed to be an original Piaggio part?? Cause it doesn’t look like it. Looks more like low quality, Indian made. And how did you try to change the pin / install the bearings?? You need some special tools, shims, spacers, etc…

Original is pricy…
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/suspension-arm-piaggio-10-front_17805100
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Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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Posts: 143
Location: Scarborough UK
 
Hooked
2016 GTS 300 70th Anniversary, 1973 150 Super
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UTC quote
Thanks for your comments. The part is not a genny Vespa one. It was pressing the roller bearing caps in when it cracked. I was only using a vice so wasn’t exerting that much pressure. Must be a rubbish casting I bought off eBay.
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