Modern Vespa

"It's only original once."

How many times have we heard this?

I've been musing about it. Sometimes I refer to a scoot as "more original" than another. Mine have all had some touch ups, new rubber and mechanical replacements of one sort or another, and I started wondering exactly what that means.

When exactly do we draw the line at keeping things "original?" When is one of these little machines considered no longer original? Should we even care?

Nothing lasts forever. Stuff wears out. Piaggio doesn't make replacements for a lot of things and NOS parts are getting harder to come by.

An old tattered decal or license plate holder is cool nostalgia, but an old tattered seat is just ugly and uncomfortable.

Seems to me the biggest value in originality is to get a glimpse of how a scoot (or car or motorcycle or whatever) was put together when it was new. Beyond that, does anyone honestly prefer a rusty, worn out, deteriorated anything over something new and functional just because the old thing was once original?

To be continued ...

It will come as no surprise, I suspect, that I am Team Resto-mod all the way.

I love the styling and basic functionality, but if I can retrofit better tech without ruining the fundamental aesthetic, I'm all over it. Most of that tech in my case may be about increasing performance, which means I then need to increase safety, or just adding stuff that's a plain ol' good idea, like turn signals, but doing so in a non-obtrusive way.

The one area where I think that there's a potential discussion is paint. Pretty much every other part of the scoot is, at some level, a "wear part." Only the paint could theoretically be maintained forever with enough love, wax, and diligence. Plus not riding...boo.

When I first got my Sprint, I was going to paint it and this crew talked me out of it, a decision I'm very happy with in hindsight. With my GL, it was never going to be anything but a paint job. I had no cowls, the mudgard was a rusted mess. The floorboards needed major work, and there was surface rust all over it.

I don't think it's an all-or-nothing issue. I think it's specific to any given bike/frame. Some can be preserved, some need tougher love, with more and more scooters falling into the second category, IMHO, as time marches on and leaves its boot prints on them.

Last night I was looking at parts, and obsessing over the ones that say "OEM Quality" on Scooter Center.

Is that beading exactly the same? Is it really a quality repair if I don't spot weld so it has identical dents to the original? Is a clear coat sacrilige?

But also kind of amazed at the availability of high quality parts available. Like you can find basically every part for something 50 years old.

I'm not going to worry so much. But generally, these bikes are so old now that they are almost museum pieces. So seems worthwhile to keep as close to factory as possible.

I love this style though. The person who sold me my rally case builds bikes like this one. Keeping as much of the patina as possible, and making them mechanically perfect and high performance.

There are some models that I think should be original, down to the color like a 98, SS180 or T5 (and others.)

Then there are bikes like mine that are just run of the mill VNBs that were a basket of parts when I got it. Mine has a modern 150 /4spd engine so its a hybrid 10"/8" and is not the original color (I have no idea what it was originally, its been pained a million times). I built that one the way I wanted to build it (and still not done with it, an eternal work in progress.)

I am always wary of anything OEM because when I first heard that TLA it stood for "Other Environment Manufacturer", as in NOT original. As a junior in an IT department in the mid 80s I was taught to avoid OEM. Marketing and time has changed the meaning..."Original Equipment Manufacturer"? I don't know but if it is genuine Piaggio parts they put Piaggio and don't put OEM on the label.

With those German ones, Scooter Center and SIP, they use it to grade the quality of their parts. They often have multiple of varying quality. The OEM-quality ones are supposedly the best, but not Piaggio quality, though. They still have a surprising amount of Piaggio parts, though.

And they have ones that are "Grade B - decent" and lower.

Yes. We should care. The availability of the machines and spare parts is vanishing faster than the folks that like them are vanishing. Albeit, not by much...

My crustoration VNB is one of my all time favorite scoots I've owned. Used to be everything in the world you could need for a VNB was available, not so much anymore. Shoot... even P stuff is getting hard to find. (Ahem, I need a kill switch if anyone is holding!)

I net out on being able to reverse any mechanical change that I make. Ex- When it comes to dremeling cases I don't do it because I can't reverse it. 10 years ago I would've felt differently. But today? Finding a set of P 200 cases is nowhere near as easy as it used to be. [Edit- Paint / if it is original and salvagable I will try and keep it as OG as possible. If it's been repainted already... then do what makes you happy. (What makes me happy is paying homage to the OGs Max Meyer colors). ]

Meh. Those two cents and another two dollars will buy you a cup of coffee (as long as it isn't at Starbucks)

My feeling on the subject is Refurbish vs Restore. I use the term refurbish because to Restore is to bring it back to original - which could never happen if you paint it, especially with two stage paint.

Bottom line is I like to see these beautiful pieces of art and functionality on the road, still doing what they were meant to do - move us around, in style.

The perfectionist in me wants to take out every dent, polish everything, make everything mechanically perfect. But I just look at my own body - dents, dings, not near as flashy as days of old, but still running, thank you very much.

These beauties are getting harder find running. I had a dude at the gas station yesterday stop, get out of his car, and ask me
"You wanna sell your Allstate?"
My answer "No".
Then he says: "Come on man - name your price. You don't see those on the road any more!".
My answer: "Thanks buddy, but it's not for sale".

See - they are getting rare....

I'd go for survivor paint if I could get it but neither of my scoots are anywhere close.
My VNB was a box o parts. The car guy that I bought it from had stripped it down to bare metal and sprayed it with primer.
He showed me a picture of it before he stripped it. I would have kept the original paint.
Unfortunately it has been primer for 6+ years. Not looking it's best right now but it has done 61mph. 😁

The 60 Allstate was painted red sometime late 80's early 90's so also not original. Not much I can do for either of those.
I'd paint either of them any color I want and not feel bad about it.

But if I do find a VNB 1-3 or VBB (round tail) with enough original paint left on it I would keep as much of that paint for as long as I can.

As far as engines, exhaust and such go let's make it fast and fun.

That's why we all need n + 1 scooters. You have your fast, wild paint or rat scooter that looks the way it looks and hopefully another that is as original looking as you can find. Oh and 5 or 6 more as space and the significant other allows.

Birdsnest: Agree 100% that we should care about the machines... and we do! We love em or we wouldn't be here. My question is maybe more philosophical... what is it about originality that makes it valuable for its own sake?

What got me thinking about this was a neighbor of mine has a Packard in pretty much 100% original condition. Nice, but ragged upholstery, faded paint, cracked glass etc. He joined some old car club and they all convinced him it was in such awesome original condition that he basically shouldn't do anything to it. He treats it like the Mona Lisa. He can't afford to send it out for a concourse restoration and is afraid to work on it himself. Instead of being a fun hobby and something he can tinker on and ride and enjoy, it's been sitting under a tarp in his garage for 20 years. He doesn't even touch it because he doesn't want to ruin the "originality". Well said qa. Pretty much sums up my attitude.

I realise it's not a sought after model, but my '76 Super is fairly unique because it is fully documented from new and is original, apart from some easily reversible mods that I have made (10" wheels and seat for example). I'm keeping it in it's factory paint for as long as I possibly can, but I won't let it deteriorate beyond a certain point, and I have no quarms about restoring it in the future, using the original colour code. I do not want any of my scoots to have replacement legshields or floor, or patches/repairs to the tunnel, and if at all possible, I don't want body filler. I just do not trust the aftermarket body parts. Bolt on items like fenders, side cowls, headsets etc. can be skilfully panel beaten if lightly dented, or replaced with carefully sourced second hand OEM parts, but a compromised frame is a compromised frame IMHO.

I've just restored my '87 PX200e using the correct single stage paint and much better than factory fastenings and build quality. It's good for another 30+ years, where keeping it original would have meant a fairly scruffy scoot that would have continued to deteriorate, albeit slowly. I don't see the point in that.

Now, what would I do if I ever came across a completely original and unmolested 1968 SS180?? I'll probably never have to make that call

Monit... does anyone remember Monit?


'66 Sprint Resto

Perfectly good original Sprint ruined.

Here is my take- Its like rare art restoration. It is necessary if you want to fully appreciate the art. If it is old/rare and can be restored to near new condition with very little work by all means do so.

If it is trashed and rough then bringing it back to its near original shine and luster is admirable in my view.

I DO agree we are stewards of these wonderful machines.

Resto-mod is popular these days and it is also "art". You can both love originality and appreciate the art of resto mod. Took me a little time to, but it can be done.

My neighbor spent 3 years resto modding a 61 domestic pickup truck with a 2005 drivetrain. It was a decent farm truck with no rust before he chopped it all up. Sacrilege. But I did admire his tenacity and the beauty it was when he finished. Sold it on to a retiree that was absolutely in love with what he had done, so mission accomplished.

IJS...

Oh man! Resto gone bad.....

Old joke.
But... it makes a point.

There's no wrong answer I suppose. As long as you respect the machine and your skill-set in relation to the machine you are working on you will usually come up a winner.

It's all in the details...

Omg lol I just spit out my coffee. Good point. The old eye of the beholder. Quality of restoration varies wildly

well said and my thoughts pretty much as well.

Well, I'm super prone to nostalgia. But my first shifty was my total fixer P200 and we went through a lot together. It was never gonna be OG in the end with all the work it needed, and as a daily commuter I was pretty happy to go full disc on it and such. I'm more inclined towards trying to preserve the originality of my ET3 for rarity sake in the US as much as anything else, but then the motor turned out to have some major issues when I got it and so kit was almost immediate. Fate and practicality have forced me to embrace the "function over originality" for both my scoots.

My father in law restored a Packard. It was not drivable in any modern urban environment. Museum piece. Maybe ridable in a parade.
The Europeans are inspiring, in terms of keeping these bikes ridable at a high level of performance/reliability. Some guys in Indonesia too.

I strive for originality as much as possible for three reasons. The first reason is that original parts look better. The second reason is they make the bike much more valuable over time. The last, and most important, reason is that original parts fit correctly without burdensome modification.

The only time I go away from originality is for function. For example, I won't use the original brown Bakelite HT coils because they are too unreliable if one wants to actually ride, which I do. In this case, I opt for an original Piaggio 6 volt blue PX coil because it works.

Nostalgia? I'm not sure what that really means as it's just something in the head.

it's basically a level of where do you draw the line?

is or if the paint is salvageable and it doesn't look too ragtag, then yeah. try that route.

but as far as engines go, unless it's a wide body, or piston port? jam whatever in there and ride.

if it's decent and it works and it's something that's obscure or relatively rare try and maintain and upgrade sensibly.

I come from the muscle car world where mofo's be rolling 9" drum brakes on big block in a small car. yeah. no. take that shiz off, knock on a set of discs and be happy. those drums? they're under the work bench for the asshole that wants to restore is "correct" and not actually drive it.

Yet another inspiration from Indonesia

That is outstanding on so many levels

Between the whole concept, the fact that he's riding in flip-flops, the fire extinguisher, which seems like it's there because it *needs* to be and the "Lucky Bastard" sticker on his helmet, I love it!

So, do you think he is counter-steering the front wheel or the whole engine and rear wheel pivots?

If the original designers built them today they would use modern components and techniques?

It reminds me when I was a kid (late 70s) and we were driving down an LA freeway with our dad and this dude was driving a VW van that was made of two front halves welded together. As kids, my brother and I totally went berserk when he saw it giving the dude thumbs up.

It is neither of the two. He is, of course, driving backwards.

Why are we not chastising him for his open face helmet? Is it because he has gone into another dimension of absolute creative genius that mortals as us are unwilling to venture into?

I just stick with if it ain't your bike then your opinion don't matter.

I have trouble leaving anything original, I tend to bash things up and hotrod them. I've got a Motobecane I'm trying to keep looking factory, it's just so pretty and yellow, but am having trouble figuring out how to get the pedals and covers back on over the giant expansion chamber, oversized cylinder, new carb and intake. I'll get it worked out.

Because he has gone into another dimension of risk taking where pointing out his lack of chin bar is like calling out Evel Knievel for his choice of motorcycle tire.

Risk is definitely a relative thing. This woman considers driving a VW bus too risky because of a lack of airbags. Her child died in an accident with a modern car. I guess I I should go to jail for taking my kid for a ride on my scooter. And people fall off the rim of the Grand Canyon taking selfie's.

https://www.onethankfulmom.com/that-hipster-vw-bus-its-just-not-worth-it/

Back to the original topic, I prefer to keep things as original as possible. If I modify something, I prefer to do so in a way that allows me to reverse it. Lowering buses comes to mind. A cool lowered stance looks cool, but becoming a fashion victim and making it just about undrivable by slamming it to the pavement makes no sense.

Patina: If most of the original paint was good, I would do my best to keep it. Some take patina to an extreme and others "over restore". I like custom if the work is well done. Nothing irks me more than poorly done work that makes a vehicle worse.

Some custom trends freeze forever in time. Cal look bugs scream 1990's Hot VW's magazine with the horse-faced, fake-titted bikini girls on the cover.

Keep it original, with style & a few modern features ... sometimes the more it makes you look, the better it gets!

GAWDAYUM thats a beautiful machine. Rider looks like a decent fella too

The fire extinguisher could be ballast.

FB video here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/431909474754669/posts/580630163215932/

My guess is it is the fuel tank

It sure is a beast!
That's a friend, Jay ... he had it built specially as had cancer & wanted an awesome Vespa, but sadly he passed away before getting to appreciate it, he only got to ride it a few times.

https://www.facebook.com/100565078927259/posts/111972674453166/