Modern Vespa

Is there a way to improve oil circulation to the clutch? (T5, P? engine), Thanks

I haven't ever seen any mods to do that, but I'm curious, are you actually having problems getting it wet enough? I've never had a problem with a clutch drying out unless it has sat for years without running.

Basically yes. I put a clutch in with new plates all lubed up and it works fine for maybe 5 miles then it plays up snatching and dragging. Take out and it is dry. I've been told on another site that they double the oil on their race engines to solve this. Also one of the SIP racers use an oil pump to solve this. I am leaning towards a pump as a solution, electric from drain plug into clutch breather....I need to research that.

One thing worth doing is using a pick to make sure the channels on the plates are free flowing, they are often too filled with cork.

not sure what engine you have exactly but a lot of them have a little plastic diverter in the cases that feeds oil onto the primary. I'd check to see if that thing is in there (if yours is supposed to have one).

In the pic in the link (that I stole from another post on here ) its the white thing in the case that I'm talking about. I have no idea what Vespa calls it.

https://members.modernvespa.net/swa45/uploads/20170326_164102_resized_47635.jpg

Edit: looked at an exploded parts diagram, its an "Oil Guide Rib"

https://www.scooter-center.com/en/oil-guide-rib-vespa-px-t5-125cc-cosa-9020082?number=9020082

That is a real defect somewhere in the circulation of oil. If your clutch is not receiving oil you've got a problem to be resolved and no add-on should be necessary (under normal operation, of course) - the stock system is bulletproof.

You don't need to do any of that stuff - I agree with the others, something is wrong with the install or you're missing the "oil guide rib" or something. Just for completeness though - I assume this is the T5 stock clutch? or something aftermarket?

*edit* I had a lot of issues with a cosa clutch on my P2 for a while and I remember some posts about aftermarket plate thicknesses being off - maybe confirm yours are in spec for your clutch?

Thanks for the replies. It is not standard by a long way but it is laugh enducing when working right. It is Pinasco 251 and the clutch came with the engine kit. The supplied CR80 plates did last nearly 100 miles before being totally shot. I then bought SIP carbon plates that have not worn out but became unrideable after less than 10 miles. The engine is stripped again because I was hoping I'd done something wrong...like putting the oil thrower in wrong. Alas I did it right as usual hence me asking the question of more knowledgable people!
I have a BGM Ultralube clutch sat waiting to go in, (bought as soon as they were available for the splined shaft), but I'd really like to solve this before putting that in.
I have looked at 3D printing an oil thrower that will chuck more lube towards the primary/clutch but I am still at the head scratching phase with that!
Thanks

Monza, I am looking at your pic and now wondering if the oil thrower was designed to throw oil back to the gearbox. Who knows what the designers were thinking but as the cush is anti clockwise...maybe I'll use the old clutch to test it with the oil thrower removed.

What oil are you using?

I'm not sure of your exact problem, but I have seen on the GSF where they've fitted a hose to the breather on the clutch housing. If that's long enough and rises upward sufficiently you can double the oil capacity. Maybe not an answer but at least a workaround.

I had a similar problem a few years back. A new set of plates would start grabbing after riding for a bit, no matter how I adjusted them. Someone on here said there was a bad bunch of cork plates out there that swelled up too much from oil.

I ordered a different set, did NOT soak overnight but merely wetted with oil during installation, and the problem went away.

Thanks for the replies.
I have treid SAE30, 85w09 GL4 and Dextron III. I've ruled oil type out.
I have an oil breather with extended hose on order because I am going to try it with 500ml of oil.
The more I study the oil thrower the more convinced I am that it was not designed to aid clutch lubrication...perhaps the opposite. I'll probably not experiment on this engine as I just want it all working correctly before selling on.
Thanks.

The plastic oil sling does work if installed properly and enough oil in the motor. The gears spins the oil that is then thrown on the plastic sling. The oil rolls down to the kush drive gear that rolls up to the clutch. If the sling is not pushed in all the way, the oil goes back down to the gear box.

Either not enough oil for the gears to throw up on the sling or there is something wrong with your clutch. Something as simple as a missing clutch washer can cause lubrication problems.

250ml is good enough to lubricate the engine, even on tuned engines (personal experience) its enough, racing engines will be another thing...

The plastic flinger works... clutch gets soaked... one issue i see is if the oil gets all the way to the clutch cover, because the tolerances are tight.

Your problem will be somewhere else, i'm guessing clutch plates not flat/straight (even new ones are bent, i have videos of that), clutch plates in the wrong thickness order...

Stupid question, (but just to check) Do you have the modified clutch cover for more space? Cant remember if the pinasco splined bull clutch is a thicker size...

One thing i would also check is the amount of oil you have in, then remeasure that you have the same amount after riding a few days, just to check you dont have an oil sucker...

but don't remove that rib in the case/clutch cover completely, that directs the oil to run down to the pressure plate.

The small frame has a way nicer method to deal with feeding oil to the clutch, but not much you can do about that here.