Modern Vespa

I thought we had a kind of thread with tons of tips on bodywork, youtube videos, etc to help people just learning. Am I wrong? If we do, can anyone point to it? I'm thinking smaller scale here - painting a pair of cowls and a fender, color match not essential, etc.

I think I was thinking of Lynn's thread, which is amazing.

bodywork - over my head

we can always have more bodywork threads!

my advice, prep prep prep prep prep. 80% is prep, 10% is product, 5% is tools, 5% is skill.

is it clean? clean it again.

lay down thin coats rather than one giant ass soggy one

be smooth on the trigger- whether it's a spray gun or a rattle bomb. smooth, flowing strokes.

Yeah I’m looking for some quality YouTube on dent removal, sanding for prep, filler, etc. it’s like 20+ years since I took a community ed body shop class, so it’s not fresh .

Here are the basic steps for painting, whether you go rattle can or gun:

1. STRIP. A new paint job is only as good as what’s underneath it. You don’t necessarily have to strip to bare metal if the old paint is in decent shape. The original Max Meyer coating used on Vespas was incredibly tough. If it is intact, it actually makes a great undercoat. Sanding for adhesion is all that’s needed. However, you do need to remove all old flaking or blistering paint, all rust, and all sketchy bondo. There are pros and cons to blasting vs acid stripping. Short of cutting and welding, IMO acid is the only way to remove 100% of the rust in places like inside the tunnel.

2. SEAL. Seal bare metal IMMEDIATELY with a 2-part epoxy primer. It will start rusting again right before your eyes if you don't. Once the epoxy is on you can take your sweet time doing body work. Epoxy is hard and non-porous. It seals out air and moisture. You don't want to see rust forming on the frame while you're working on it.

3. FILL. Fix dents as needed by scuffing the epoxy with <180 grit in the places where you need to apply filler. If you sand through the epoxy, shoot more on. The idea is to have a coat of epoxy over the bare metal, then a sandable filler on top of the epoxy.

4. SAND. Sand the filler with <180-220 grit paper. It's an art and takes time and practice to make a smooth, flat repair. Use sanding blocks and long strokes. Don’t sand in circles. Use guidecoats to see high and low spots.

5. PRIME. When you're happy with your bodywork, scuff the whole scoot with 220 grit and shoot a couple of coats of a sandable 2K urethane filler primer over everything. Follow the directions for whatever primer you are using. Don’t skimp. Use the good stuff. It’s sands easier and goes on smoother.

6. WET SAND. The point of filler primer is to fill in the minor imperfections, pinholes, and sanding scratches left in your bodywork. You’ll need to sand these out and give the primer "teeth" for the top coat of paint to adhere to. Most filler primers are sanded with 400-600 wet sand paper, but again follow the manufacturer's instructions. Pros shoot a coat of sealer over the primer to get a nice uniform surface right before painting.

7. PAINT. The secret to good painting is putting enough on so that it looks wet, but not so much that it runs. A lot has to do with keeping the spray nozzle parallel to the surface AT ALL TIMES, moving at a constant speed, and overlapping each pass. Watch how it comes out and hits the surface. This is where a spray gun beats rattle cans because a gun delivers the paint at a more constant pressure, allows you to adjust the pattern and flow, and thus apply the paint more evenly.

If there's an auto paint supply store near you, mosey on over and ask some questions. Most are pretty helpful. They can put 2K urethane paint in cans for you. The difference between catalyzed automotive paints and regular rattle cans is like night and day. The spray technology is much better too. Catalyzed paint in cans is expensive but worth the cost. It’s super toxic though, so if you go that route be sure to use a respirator, gloves, goggles, etc.

8. FINISH SANDING/BUFFING. There are all kinds of techniques for getting flaws out of paint and getting a mirror finish. Some people spend weeks working on paint AFTER its been applied. It can be a crazy obsession. If you're into that let me know, happy to share more experience and info.

And like greasy says, clean, clean, clean everything as you go. Before EVERY step, wipe the part down with a paper towel soaked in rubbing alcohol. Use a tack rag to get dust off EVERY time you apply any paint or primer. And keep yourself and the area around where you’re painting clean. Cleanliness makes a huge difference in the final outcome.

So there you go. A nice paint job takes time, but is a lot of fun. Lynn did a terrific job btw. Feel free to ask more questions if you have any.

^^ this is super helpful. I was just reading all about epoxy primer.

OK let's start with some easy questions, socalguy...

1 STRIP - (assuming keeping of old paint where possible) what grit of sandpaper is sufficient to get enough bite for primer to take? Should we work from something coarser to finer? And how do you know you are "done"?

2 SEAL - you mention the 2 part epoxy primer, I remember using some self etching primer on my repair for the Ford Falcon project. Is there a reason to use one over the other?

3 FILL - will any old bondo type product work? Assume I'm not going for show bike - in this case it's likely to happen on a bike that will be flipped and won't earn top dollar anyway.

4 SAND - we have so many curves on vespas, can you show us some of your favorite sanding blocks to deal with them?

Bodywork’s a whole separate skill. I’ll let others share tips on metal work and welding.

The basic rule for filler is to apply it in super thin coats, pushing evenly and firmly. The less you use the better. Never apply big gobs of it all of it at once. It shouldn’t take much but if you need more, build up coats. I almost never use regular filler. I like the thinner glaze coat products - they spread and sand easier, the consistency is like pancake batter, almost pourable.

1. Yes, the whole bodywork and paint process is about going from coarser to finer. You’re essentially taking big dents out and putting progressively littler dents in, taking big scratches out and putting progressively smaller scratches in. With showcars, they apply multiple layers of clear coats, and progressively thinner flow coats. Guidecoat helps tell you when you done. A good eye and experience helps too.

80 grit is the coarsest you’ll ever use. It’ll strip down to metal. 120-220 is good for working filler. 320-400 is generally good for sanding old paint and primer. Every manufacturer puts out a TDS sheet that will tell you how to sand and prep before applying its product.

2. Self-etching primer doesn’t have the sealing properties of epoxy.

3. Yeah, basic bondo works but better quality filler sticks better, goes on much smoother and is 100% easier to sand . Not that much more expensive either. The extra couple of dollars is worth the headaches avoided.

4. Got about six or seven of them. Thin dense foam in different sizes. Here’s one. You also need something hard - like a paint stick - for seams.

So on the sanding foams - are you attaching paper sandpaper to them or are they an "all-in-one" product that you use and dispose of? Are you sourcing those at your automotive paint supply places?

The sanding blocks I use are called “Dura-Blocks”. You can get them online or at auto supply stores. I also made a few custom ones of my own out of some hard foam packing material, which I don’t remember where I found. The disposable ones are fine but they only come in a few grits and wear out pretty fast. It’s a personal preference. The important thing is to avoid using your bare hand or fingertips, or something too flexible, because you’ll never get the surface smooth.

Vespe e Motori
There are many, many more there you could find useful for that project.

Vespa e Motori videos are awesome! I've watched just about every one, multiple times. Entertaining, and insightful stuff.

Also watch RESTO-LAD. Lots of good body work lessons. He starts a series on dent removal by working on Vespa and Lambretta panels. Much more beyond that too! Worth the deep-dive

I wrote something about panel & paint here...

Ode to Speedy - damn these expensive shopping trolleys! (Page 2)

I'm still pretty new at the whole paint and bodywork process, but I'm also verbose, so here's an index of posts and resources from my GL resto-mod project, which I took to bare metal then built back up.

I documented my process in my 63 GL: First Bodywork adventure thread, which was basically my journaling all the stuff I learned going from "never done body work" (on a car or scooter, anyway. We can talk boats another time) to the finished project.

I learned a TON from watching a bunch of videos that Eastwood has produced. I also bought my hammer & dolly set from them. e.g.
And the entire Hands On Cars series
Easily 40% of those videos is dedicated to the importance of diligent, consistent prep work and keeping a clean work space.


I kick off the body work in earnest here, taking it down to bare metal, along with laying out specific products (Summit Racing house brand) that I eventually used.

Lots of tips on how not to paint, too

Painting began here.

This was also about the same time I received the SoCalGuy's first reminder on floor rails... Lots of thoughts on the actual painting process
More thoughts on the painting process

Eventually, we got to the floor rails...
Post floor rail thoughts

Also maybe-relevant, I did some Electrolysis rust removal. That's become a pretty go-to thing for me when dealing with rusty parts.

And, finally, a little bit of "bonus" hammer and dolly work.

And while my paint job didn't come out as nicely as Lynn's did, I learned a lot along the way and have higher hopes for my next project (Yeah, VBB, I'm lookin' at you...)

And for the before-and-after, here we are:

You guys are rocking it, thanks for pulling all this into one spot! I will have more questions soon I am sure…

OMG that Restolad video is nice!

I like his videos because he explaines the principles of what is happening with the metal, and why it does what it does; in easy to understand terms. Lots to go thru there, but the first 1-4 videos of the dent removal series covers most of what would be needed for dents, dings, etc.

That’s “deents” to you

Yeah.
Really like how he explains why not to go hit on a dent straight on.

Sorry but the Eastwood products and videos are the best...

Ive had to have them shipped half way across the world and its totally worth it...

Are you planning to shoot it? Rattle can it?
I've got some solid rattle can tips

Most likely rattle, maybe from a paint shop though

Some tips:
The thing about the rattle cans is they have a LOT of solvent, compared to a gun.
Biggest mistake I see is people wanting to see that coverage/color as they pass over the first time, as if it were a paint gun. Drips, cracking, and orange peel are the result of that thinking. The first color coats should look ugly, be given around 10 minutes to flash, then re-coated. If timed right, previous coats act like a glue, still allowing the following coat to melt in.

Start the spray off the piece. 25% overlap on the previous pass. Keep it ugly. Each coat's solvent needs to evaporate enough to keep it from getting buried under the next, which depends a lot on the temperature. Make a test piece to screw up on.

Use a combination primer and sandable filler. Very forgiving stuff. Rustoleum makes a good one.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned about clear coats and vintage bikes is an older bike's finish isn't really glossy any more. I used 2k semi gloss on mine. First of all that 2k (epoxy) is tough! Second, it looks a little more the part, imo. Achieving high gloss is a struggle for DIYers, much less so with semi or matte.

Ok- using a pressure feed Binks setup.

Technique question:

How do you recommend approaching the frame and parts, as there are SO MANY compound curves and uneven areas? Here is my thought, PLEASE correct me, as I am shooting in the next two weeks.

1. First coat- lightly to give grip for the following coats, technique not so important, same for parts
2. Second coat- hit edges and inside of frame along with parts hit horncast and odd angles (under seat curve, sides of tunnel, under cowl area light coat on flat spots to make sure all has been covered)
3. Third coat- Less attention to the curves, more to the flat areas
4. Fourth coat hitting everything evenly as possible.

I plan to color sand the finished product, so may do a 5th so I have room for error. Will not do more than two coats over the VIN if possible. (same for the shifter numbers area)

Do I:
A. Run the gun left to right in the front and slightly pull away for the horncast area
B. Run the gun sideways top to bottom or bottom top and overlap the horncast

Same question for the tail.

Forgot to mention, the 2k clear coat goes down a little differently. Watch the latter part of this video to see the method:

Whichever paint you use, the prep will still be the same if you want good results.

My paint work on my GL was pretty crappy, but the prep work carried it.

In winter; warm the cans in a sink full of very warm water (& spin them while in water to mix paint in can) to thin the paint & ensure it dries quickly.
In the cold & wet; put tarp over vehicle, bung a heater under tarp to warm the air & panels, plus to lower humidity.
In the rain; stand under tarp so water doesn't pool on tarp & use hotter water in sink.
Safety; bongs are ok as they minimise the issues caused by huffing, just but don't use lighter while under tarp & painting... wear a COVID quality mask to ensure huffing effects are enhanced coz they do fuk all to stop paint inhalation.

Solid advice from down under, as always

I try to remain consistent

For painting a scooter, a cheapie tent is also a good idea.
A 3mx3m (9-10') is good size, old canvas ones are great, as have extra headroom, strong frame to hang bits from & less movement in the wind

Will be getting my scooter sandblasted and will need some minor welding for small rust spots and metal work.

After sandblasting, should I put the epoxy primer before welding and then re-prime the spots that have been welded or weld first then prime?

WEld first... you need to weld to metal, not paint

^ This. If you’re going to be cutting or welding parts of the frame, do that to bare metal. There’s a product called “weld-thru” primer but no need to waste epoxy on a part you’re cutting or grinding off.

Finally got a chance to watch some of these today. Restolad, Eastwood, and this one all have something to offer. Stay tuned for some new threads on the projects I'm picking up. I think the bodywork may be less than I initially thought as I'm going to combine 2 bikes to make one good one, it seems. But paint for a couple cowls and a fender is highly likely.

It maybe a couple of days after sandblasting that the welding would be done as I wouldn’t be doing the work. Would that be too long for rust to set in?
I thought I read somewhere to prime it first once it is bare metal as soon as possible and then sand away any areas that are going to be welded.

Take it to your welder bare. He/she will be way happier.
Three days is nothing.

Welders like it bare.

She's a maniac

Thanks for the chuckle Ray8