Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:08 am

Lucky
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Lucky
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Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:08 am linkquote
Yeah, I have a moisture filter on my compressor, too.

The pancake compressor can't really keep up. You need, I want to say, at least 5.7 CFM compressor to keep up with a gun, which is bigger than what I have. I have to pause and let the compressor catch up every few minutes which is much less annoying doing a scooter than it was with my boat.
Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:55 am

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Ossessionato
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Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:55 am linkquote
Craigslist can be a good source for a used air compressor for anyone looking. I've seen older 50+ gallon setups for less than $100 in Minnesota.

Last edited by Christopher_55934 on Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total
Sun Aug 22, 2021 6:48 am

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Sun Aug 22, 2021 6:48 am linkquote
Those type of little filters/regulators are better suited for standard pneumatic air tools. They don't work that well for paint guns, but something is better than nothing.
Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:17 pm

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Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:17 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Yeah, I have a moisture filter on my compressor, too.

The pancake compressor can't really keep up. You need, I want to say, at least 5.7 CFM compressor to keep up with a gun, which is bigger than what I have. I have to pause and let the compressor catch up every few minutes which is much less annoying doing a scooter than it was with my boat.
I keep imagining painting a boat with a pancake compressor. You have to be one stubborn bastard!
Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:22 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:22 pm linkquote
Ray8 wrote:
I keep imagining painting a boat with a pancake compressor. You have to be one stubborn bastard!
I spent a lot of time waiting for the compressor to catch back up. A lot. Like...make a pass down the hull. Wait five minutes. It made keeping a wet edge a bit of a challenge.

I gave serious thought to getting a bigger compressor after I did the hull, but then I thought, "well, I managed to get this far. I can finish there job with this."

Total mistake, but also one I still haven't rectified.
Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:06 pm

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:06 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
I spent a lot of time waiting for the compressor to catch back up. A lot. Like...make a pass down the hull. Wait five minutes. It made keeping a wet edge a bit of a challenge.

I gave serious thought to getting a bigger compressor after I did the hull, but then I thought, "well, I managed to get this far. I can finish there job with this."

Total mistake, but also one I still haven't rectified.
You could hook your pancake up to this tank, could go longer between stops. Maybe use your bodgetastic skills and get it working. Then you could connect your pancake to the tank and have both charging the tank for bigger jobs.

https://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/d/nashville-air-compressor/7369203972.html
Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:39 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
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Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:39 am linkquote
Ok so how long between paint and wet sand? I'm rattle canning my fender and I got a few runs and a bit of orange peel and I will clean that up before clear coat.
Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:33 pm

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Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:33 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
Ok so how long between paint and wet sand? I'm rattle canning my fender and I got a few runs and a bit of orange peel and I will clean that up before clear coat.
It all depends upon what the data sheet say for that particular paint. Temperature also plays a huge role. Also, are you wanting to aggressively sand, or just some light scuffings? I've wet sanded little runs on cars in as little as 15 minutes. If you're turning the temp up in the paint booth to bake the paint, you can fairly safely sand the next day. Sometimes it might take a couple days of waiting. Keep in mind that the longer you wait to sand, the harder the paint gets, so it gets more difficult for the sand paper to cut through the paint....especially once you start sanding with 2000 to 2500 grit paper.
Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:17 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:17 pm linkquote
This kind of stuff, my first guess is wait a day and use 1000 grit.

This is a learning piece, no big deal if I have to redo. This side is the worst, the rest should clean up pretty easy.



Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:54 pm

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Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:54 pm linkquote
I'd probably hit that with some 500 grit that's strapped to a rubber sanding block, then spray another coat of the base color over the entire fender.
Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:13 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:13 pm linkquote
I will start higher just to see but I imagine you are right. Good thing the paint is cheap
Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:06 pm

Hooked
1968 VBB150
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Hooked
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Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:06 pm linkquote
Whodat is right.
Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:23 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:23 pm linkquote
Gotcha
Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:30 pm

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Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:30 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
I will start higher just to see but I imagine you are right. Good thing the paint is cheap
Looks like a 150 grit dumpster fire from here.
Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:32 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:32 pm linkquote
Ray8 wrote:
Looks like a 150 grit dumpster fire from here.
🤣 honestly it will clean up time and patience and learning going on here. Nobody posts up their dumpster fires nobody learns!
Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:35 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:35 pm linkquote
The rest isn't nearly as bad



Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:26 pm

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Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:26 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
The rest isn't nearly as bad
Night and day. What was the difference between those sides?

Offhand, it looks like you got too close (and didn't keep a constant, even pace) on the dumpster fire side.
Keep in mind too, that each coat has to flash off the solvent before the next one. It's like 10 or so minutes.
You can build on that good side now easily with 1000 grit and a few more passes.
Single-component body glazing will take care of those dimples easy:

https://www.amazon.com/Bondo-801-Professional-Glazing-Putty/dp/B004BYKICG/ref=sr_1_3?crid=ABBNAR5UJC83&dchild=1&keywords=body%2Bglazing%2Bputty&qid=1630800049&sprefix=body%2Bglazing%2B%2Caps%2C272&sr=8-3&th=1

You'll have do deconstruct the other side. Get some 150-200 grit and maybe wait another day as well. You won't get anywhere with 1000 grit.
Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:32 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:32 pm linkquote
600 and runs are gone

Did the whole piece. Yup the difference was getting a feel for distance. Gotta learn the hard way sometimes.



Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:06 pm

bodgemaster
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Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:06 pm linkquote
Hey John, that's better but you're not done sanding yet. The shiny places are low spots. The surface of the piece should be uniformly dull from the sandpaper. Otherwise, you'll have ripples and orange peel in the next coat, which you'll have to sand and paint again, etc. etc.

Stay at it, couple more coats and you'll get it.
Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:11 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:11 pm linkquote
What grit between color and clear for sanding? This thing is looking way better with 3 more coats…



Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:35 pm

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Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:35 pm linkquote
Normally you wouldn't ever sand the basecoat before the clear coat. The only time i do is when i'm spraying multi colors and want to knock down the basecoat paint buildup that always happens at the edges of the masking tape...but that's a VERY light sanding. Then it would be a couple coats of clear, then i would sand the ridge down again where the two different colors overlap, then two (or possibly three) more coats of clear over that.
Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:59 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:59 pm linkquote
Cool, this is a standalone engine paint but there is a compatible 1k clear that I figured I could use. It says to put it on within an hour, but I didn't. So maybe a good idea to light sand and one more coat on the color and then apply the clear? Will have to think on that.
Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:00 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:00 am linkquote
I'm going the right way, sand and spray then clear. I now understand the whole primer and guide coat thing. I'm doing it the hard way with paint. Had I done that, I could have used filler and got the low spots back in the primer phase.

Watching videos and doing it are not the same

I have seen that you can see the paint defects before you have to decide to move forward to clear, so long as you look.
Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:45 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:45 pm linkquote
It's not bad for a first try.

Recommendations on polishing out clear?



Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:37 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:37 pm linkquote
Amazing how it changes just sitting here for a couple hours, flattening out the bumps!



Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:05 pm

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Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:05 pm linkquote
Had some time to try to demonstrate how not to give rattle cans a bad name. Hope this helps..
Primed two square tube remnants and went at 'em, with metallic no less.
Rattle cans have a LOT of solvent, and relatively little material, compared to a gun. Don't try to paint with a can like a gun. It's gotta build up, as you allow those solvents to evaporate.

One advantage of these cans is that the surface doesn't remain wet and vulnerable to dust as long. No need for a paint booth if you're careful


Sanded with 600 grit and primed


Don't be tempted to "paint," like the sample on the left. Looked beautiful for about 5 seconds. Make it ugly, and apply the same amount on the next 3 coats


Wait 5 to10 minutes between coats (hot day today, 5 min). Each coat is glue to the next, so no sanding!


5 coats. The last a little more wet to smooth it all out.. As good as my gun could do. Ready for clear coat.

Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:32 pm

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Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:32 pm linkquote
Closeup of Mr Sploogy and Mr Perfect.
The sparkle on Mr Perfect is just that, not dust.


Look familiar?


Baby's butt

Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:48 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:48 am linkquote
Nice Tutorial!

While I use a gun and two-part paint on body panels, I do everything else (e.g. center stands and other similar stuff) rattle can and tend to take an approach that's in between the two examples, but with less consistent results than if I didn't get impatient and just lay it on after the first few light coats.
Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:32 pm

Hooked
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Hooked
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Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:32 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Nice Tutorial!

While I use a gun and two-part paint on body panels, I do everything else (e.g. center stands and other similar stuff) rattle can and tend to take an approach that's in between the two examples, but with less consistent results than if I didn't get impatient and just lay it on after the first few light coats.
100%- I just have a patience problem. Two light coats and then WHOOOSH The worst part is I KNOW the problem and just cant help myself lol
Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:47 pm

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Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:47 pm linkquote
dsnyder586 wrote:
100%- I just have a patience problem. Two light coats and then WHOOOSH The worst part is I KNOW the problem and just cant help myself lol
Yeah. Like I said it looks beautiful for 5 seconds if you just lay it on.
The two component clear coats out there are game changers for me. A 2k primer, standard rattle can color, finished with a 2k clear-coat is as tough as powder coating (so far).
Not sure yet about color fading, but the toughness is there for sure.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:29 pm

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Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:29 pm linkquote
Ray - had read your approach previously.
Just saw the examples.
Thanks for taking the time to show.
Impressive.
-CM
Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:30 am

Not So Moderator
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Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:30 am linkquote
Great info mobsters. Thanks for taking the time y'all!
Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:49 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:49 am linkquote
Body filling time
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:04 am

Lucky
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Lucky
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Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:04 am linkquote
Here's what seems like a pretty good article on painting failure and how to avoid or fix them.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:33 pm

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Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:33 pm linkquote
Another excellent video from Vespe e Motori here.
How to restore and paint plastic. More fun if you choose auto-translate subtitles but if you don't he says VERY LIGHTLY when he rattle cans 'em:


⬆️    About 5 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Wed May 11, 2022 10:09 am

Ossessionato
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Wed May 11, 2022 10:09 am linkquote
Ok here's a question for all the paint pros on here cause I went through the whole thread and didn't see it mentioned yet....

How much paint do you need to fully paint a vespa frame.. either small frame or large frame? This is including as much of the tunnel, gas tank under, fender under, etc as possible to get the whole thing painted with multiple layers of color? I am specifically planning on doing 2k spray gun paint.

Similarly, how much clear coat paint do you need to do 2-3 layers of the same frames?

The only place I could find the correct original color I need is from a place in Germany which does not ship to the USA. I have a friend in Munich willing to forward it back on to me in the USA, so I am going to order it and have it shipped to his place. Just trying to figure out if I should order enough to paint the whole frame with this original glasurit paint.. or if I should order a smaller container of the paint to do a small panel to get the color down on a panel, then take the panel to my local shop that does not carry this paint and have them color match the freshly painted panel?

I know the best option is to just use one brand of paint from one batch mixed all at once.. which is why I'm trying to figure out how much paint I would need to order from Germany. If its too much to order and ship twice to germany then USA, I would just get the color matched from a small painted panel.. then repaint the whole thing including that sample panel in the color matched mix I get locally so its all from one batch.

Another question.. is a color match from a brand new coat of paint going to be that accurate that its identical enough that it wouldn't be noticeable if you compared two separate bikes.. one painted with the original paint.. one painted with the matched paint from a scan of the freshly painted first bike?

This is my paint options:

Buy enough of this 2k paint top coat for a full spray:
https://www.vespa-lack.de/shop/gebinde/vespa-lackgebinde/gebinde-piaggio-933-giallo-cromo-1000ml-2k-glasurit-einschichtlack/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gebinde-piaggio-933-giallo-cromo-1000ml-2k-glasurit-einschichtlack

Buy a single bottle of this 2k spray paint same color just enough to do a sample panel and get matched locally:
https://www.vespa-lack.de/shop/spraydose/vespa-lackspray/2k-spraydose-piaggio-933-giallo-cromo-400ml-glasurit-einschichtlack/

Also, any opinions on better color from the spray bottle or the paint for sprayer?

Last edited by swiss1939 on Wed May 11, 2022 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total
Wed May 11, 2022 10:32 am

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Wed May 11, 2022 10:32 am linkquote
My T5 "ate" 1kg of white for the base and 1,3kg of the Ferrari yellow. If white wasn't spayed as a base, it would need at least 2kg of yellow and final result would be way off. Piaggio and most manufactures use white as a base coat for bright colors and grey or black for dark ones...
Wed May 11, 2022 10:39 am

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Wed May 11, 2022 10:39 am linkquote
SaFiS wrote:
My T5 "ate" 1kg of white for the base and 1,3kg of the Ferrari yellow. If white wasn't spayed as a base, it would need at least 2kg of yellow and final result would be way off. Piaggio and most manufactures use white as a base coat for bright colors and grey or black for dark ones...
So based on your T5, I would need two 1L cans of paint top coat to fully spray with multiple color layers? And that would leave me enough left over in case I needed to fix something or do more in the future.


What you think about doing the spray can on a small panel and getting the color matched locally for an order of the bigger cans to do it fully here? I think shipping 2 1L cans of paint across the pond would be a bit more expensive than doing it this way. But if its not gonna be as good a color from the matching then I'd rather spend the money and just get all the paint I need from this place in Germany.
Wed May 11, 2022 10:52 am

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Wed May 11, 2022 10:52 am linkquote
Question is if "Giallo Cromo" needs a white basecoat or not. The Ferrari yellow I chose, needed white as a base so coverage would be easier and shade would come out as it should. Piaggio definitely uses white on their "new" colors (e.g. Rosso Dragon) but can't say for sure if they did back then. Maybe, send the shop an email and ask them for info??

Maybe start with a can of spray and see how it turns up??
Wed May 11, 2022 10:53 am

bodgemaster
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Wed May 11, 2022 10:53 am linkquote
1000ml = about 1 quart.

Glasurit 22 is mixed 2:1 with hardener, so you'll have around 1-1/2 quarts of "total sprayable material". That should be plenty (assuming no screw ups). Glasurit 22 has really good coverage compared to lower cost paints (PPG Omni for example), so even though it costs more you'll use less.

Speaking of hardener, if you're going to buy the Glasurit from Germany, make sure to get hardener as well ... which won't be cheap... and make sure they can ship it to your state. You obviously don't want it confiscated by customs.
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