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SoCalGuy wrote:
1000ml = about 1 quart.

Glasurit 22 is mixed 2:1 with hardener, so you'll have around 1-1/2 quarts of "total sprayable material". That should be plenty (assuming no screw ups). Glasurit 22 has really good coverage compared to lower cost paints (PPG Omni for example), so even though it costs more you'll use less.

Speaking of hardender, if you're going to buy the Glasurit from Germany, make sure to get hardener as well ... which won't be cheap... and make sure they can ship it to your state. You obviously don't want it confiscated by customs.
Well I assume I can buy the hardener here in the states. There is a Glasurit paint distributor in Brooklyn. I just cant find the color through them. They searched for it but didnt see it and were asking me if the color code was a tint or something else? Basically they said they needed the mixture codes which I have no idea. It just seems more accurate and easier to just order this top coat paint color from Germany since it is the correct color. .then deal with getting the hardener and any other stuff that needs to get mixed with it locally.

BTW.. this glasurit 22 paint can 1000ml.. that is not "single stage" paint right? This is the stuff you spray color down then have to spray the clear coat separately right? That is what I want to do.. not the stuff you spray once and it acts as both the color and the clear coat top.

https://www.vespa-lack.de/shop/gebinde/vespa-lackgebinde/gebinde-piaggio-933-giallo-cromo-1000ml-2k-glasurit-einschichtlack/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gebinde-piaggio-933-giallo-cromo-1000ml-2k-glasurit-einschichtlack
⚠️ Last edited by swiss1939 on UTC; edited 2 times
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
Question is if "Giallo Cromo" needs a white basecoat or not. The Ferrari yellow I chose, needed white as a base so coverage would be easier and shade would come out as it should. Piaggio definitely uses white on their "new" colors (e.g. Rosso Dragon) but can't say for sure if they did back then. Maybe, send the shop an email and ask them for info??

Maybe start with a can of spray and see how it turns up??
I'm gonna say its a gray primer based on what I see on the frame that has been knocked back to primer from the previous owner.
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bodgemaster
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Glasurit 22 is single stage. It's not intended to be topped with a clear.

And SaFiS is right, the primer you use under the topcoat will affect the final shade, especially with yellow. White (or light gray) will make the yellow pop, dark gray or black will mute it.
⚠️ Last edited by SoCalGuy on UTC; edited 1 time
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Can't they get the formula on Glasurit's online tool??

https://coloronline.glasurit.com/

Example, 2lt of Giallo Cromo on Glasurit Line 22 needs the following pigments...
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I thought 22-line was 4:1:1…. 4 parts paint, 1 part hardner, 1 part reducer? My notes could be wrong though.
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bodgemaster
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Here's the TDS for Glasurit 22:


https://techinfo.glasurit.com/en_UK/PKW/Chapter_G/GD/22_HS_print.pdf


Says 2:1 and 10% reducer
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Thx …. I must have my PPG formula written down for 22-line. Appreciate the clarity.
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SaFiS wrote:
Can't they get the formula on Glasurit's online tool??

https://coloronline.glasurit.com/

Example, 2lt of Giallo Cromo on Glasurit Line 22 needs the following pigments...
Haha. Holy shit. I called the local glasurit dealer and said I was looking for yellow chrome 933. He's like I can't find it. You'd think the glasurit dealer should be able to find and use that color finder app you just posted. I didn't know about it until you just posted it. I'm gonna take that info to them and get it mixed up!
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Based on my sample size of two, a quart of two-part will do a largeframe so long as you don't screw up too much. Figure another quart of clearcoat if you're going that route. and you should be good-to-go.
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SaFiS wrote:
Can't they get the formula on Glasurit's online tool??

https://coloronline.glasurit.com/

Example, 2lt of Giallo Cromo on Glasurit Line 22 needs the following pigments...
Ok I've finally had a few minutes at the computer to look at this color picker website.

Since you guys are saying the Glasurit 22 line is single stage paint.. which is the multi-stage paint line that I should use if I want to spray multiple layers of the color, then do the clear coat layers separate?

The color picker app shows me all the paint style options they offer; 55 line, 90 line, or 68 line. Looking at their website descriptions of those different products I see 55 is clear over base system (assuming this is what I want), 90 line is "waterborne technology" that has short application and flash-off times with very low solvent content (assume its basically the same as 55 but less dangerous chemicals?), and I don't see 68 line mentioned on their website.
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The 55 line is the base/clear system you want.

Glasurit offers a choice of a few different clears for the 55 line. 923-155 looks like a good all-purpose, high solids clear. Talk to the dealer and see what they recommend.
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greasy125 wrote:
we can always have more bodywork threads!

my advice, prep prep prep prep prep. 80% is prep, 10% is product, 5% is tools, 5% is skill.

is it clean? clean it again.

lay down thin coats rather than one giant ass soggy one

be smooth on the trigger- whether it's a spray gun or a rattle bomb. smooth, flowing strokes.
There's no percentage listed for swearing when some bastard insect decides to land on your top coat ?
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ferriswolf wrote:
There's no percentage listed for swearing when some bastard insect decides to land on your top coat ?
No need. It's 100%.
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chandlerman wrote:
No need. It's 100%.
Laughing emoticon
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Another question... What's a minimum size of air compressor tank to be able to paint a frame and all the panels?

I know my 11 gallon tank is probably too small as it runs out pretty fast and takes a while to refill, but I'm wondering if getting a second 11 gallon portable air tank to hook up inline with my compressor tank (22 gal total) would be enough to get a vespa painted without running into major problems. I'm sure it would still be running the motor more than preferred, but hoping 22 gal is enough to do each of the smaller parts in one refill and wait for the tanks to refill before moving on to the next part.

I'm also not opposed to getting two 11 gal portable tanks to hook up inline and make 33 gal if that would be more than enough for a frame with minimal tank refills.
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It's less about tank size and more about Cubic Feet per Minute (CFM). I have a tiny little pancake 2.6 CFM compressor and it's definitely not up to the task. I'd guess you can get by with a 5.7 CFM, but I think that's the bare minimum for working with no recovery breaks.
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chandlerman wrote:
It's less about tank size and more about Cubic Feet per Minute (CFM). I have a tiny little pancake 2.6 CFM compressor and it's definitely not up to the task. I'd guess you can get by with a 5.7 CFM, but I think that's the bare minimum for working with no recovery breaks.
I'm more so worried about having the compressor running constantly. This thing is annoyingly loud (even after swapping out the air filter for a better one) and my garage is right next to peoples houses that don't want to hear that thing running for an hour or so while I paint. It running for a couple minutes at a time every 10-15 minutes is more acceptable.

Mine does 5.4cfm at 90psi and 6.3 cfm at 40psi (which is what my spray gun requires). And I just checked, its actually a 10 gallon tank not 11. But I am seeing plenty of used air tanks only with old air compressors removed off of them. So I can get around a 30 gal tank to up the capacity for probably only like 50-80 bucks, which I am guessing 40 gal capacity is more than enough to get it shot without the compressor running constantly, or me waiting for it to fill every 3 minutes.
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If all you're doing is adding is more tanks, they're not going to fill themselves Razz emoticon

If you have easily-annoyed neighbors, then you're probably better off with two compressors for shorter run times when refilling, I'd think.
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swiss1939 wrote:
I'm more so worried about having the compressor running constantly. This thing is annoyingly loud (even after swapping out the air filter for a better one) and my garage is right next to peoples houses that don't want to hear that thing running for an hour or so while I paint. It running for a couple minutes at a time every 10-15 minutes is more acceptable.

Mine does 5.4cfm at 90psi and 6.3 cfm at 40psi (which is what my spray gun requires). And I just checked, its actually a 10 gallon tank not 11. But I am seeing plenty of used air tanks only with old air compressors removed off of them. So I can get around a 30 gal tank to up the capacity for probably only like 50-80 bucks, which I am guessing 40 gal capacity is more than enough to get it shot without the compressor running constantly, or me waiting for it to fill every 3 minutes.
Chandler is correct, two tanks gives you a longer run time and a single compressor motor a longer run time. You would need to add a second compressor in parallel to what you have for a higher rated flow and quicker refill. You could "T" two systems together and run a single hose to tool. That would theoretically cut compressor run time in half, with two identical systems.

This looks like a knock off a brand California air tools compressor I have installed at work. If decibel rating is accurate it could be quieter than what you have. Unless you have this already.

https://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools-compressors/air-compressors-tanks/air-compressors/10-gallon-175-psi-ultra-quiet-horizontal-shopauto-air-compressor-57328.html

This is how I would connect two compressors. I saw a few videos where guys removed "Air relief valves", as it was a convenient threaded connection. PLEASE DON'T REMOVE AN OVER PRESSURE OR POP OFF VALVE. That's what keeps a tank from exploding and turning into shrapnel if there is a failure and pump doesn't turn off.

⚠️ Last edited by Christopher_55934 on UTC; edited 1 time
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Have you considered building a sound box?

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Ray8 wrote:
Have you considered building a sound box?

I have seen this and forgot about it. I might do this. And I have the older central pneumatic 10 gal compressor from harbor freight. More inclined to get a large additional tank only and build a sound box for the compressor itself.. than to buy a second compressor, unless I find a larger one for cheap used on CL. Mainly because my garage electrical is limited in amps and getting the breaker flipped when I trip it is a real PIA.
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Tried an extra tank many years ago. Can't remember the issues, but it ended up in a rust pile at my shop.

Also quick-built a box with a few holes out of 2" foam and adhesive from Home Depot. Similar compressor ran for 5 years of daily use before the motor burned out. Lifts off easily to drain the tank, etc.
⬆️    About 1 year elapsed    ⬇️
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Hello All! Recently finished painting my 77 rally project and a friends 50 special. I am only a mere hobbyist and not anywhere close to a professional, however I wanted to share some pictures in case anyone wanted to take on the task. Remember, it's just paint! This was probably my 6-7th Vespa I painted. I usually utilize the standard gun with a compressor, however after research and other purposes I could use it for, I went with a turbine system. These systems are compact, utilize same techniques/paint/products but have a small footprint and easy set up. The mini mite I have is about the size of two shoeboxes stacked and sounds like a vacuum! I also went with the 3m PPS system for ease of spraying that easily adapts to the included gun.

Like has been said a million times, preparation is key. Sanding smooth, lightly filling of imperfections etc takes more time and rightly so. I always use a simple automotive primer with a color based on the final paint.

Paint wise for all the scoots I go to Napa, get a PPG shop line single stage with reducer and hardener 4:1:1. (About $176 for quart, hardener and reducer). This has worked well for me as scoots shot over a decade ago still have great paint. Again, it is economy paint, but none the less PPG, and I feel it looks and "feels" the part. By all means you can easily drop 800 on high end PPG, but I feel this one on this small of a surface area gets looks perfect.

I also go to Home Depot, buy a 120 foot roll of 4 mil plastic and build a booth in the garage…saves on dust.

For the actual day of shooting, space your parts accordingly so you won't bump. I use steel wiring to hang parts. Also I use "spray a way" glass cleaner to wipe down , let flash off and then come back with a tack rag, mix paint, load gun and go. Again you want a clean area.

No matter how much you prep and shoot, one day an imperfection will arise. On the rally, I noticed a run on the fender within the 1st minute (I believe this was from adjusting my hand position with gun and pulling trigger a touch more). This was the only spot on the scoot that had, but thankfully was on first coat, which I then could build up around with proceeding coats as I knew I would be wetsanding later. I did 3 coats, had just enough product. Besides that one imperfection the scoot came out mirror smooth all around. Again it's just paint, take your time, familiarize yourself with what your using and go for it.

Gun set up was all stock out of the box, I did purchase different needles but the standard worked well for the single stage.
Mini mite turbine with 3M pps
Mini mite turbine with 3M pps
Parts primed and hanging rally
Parts primed and hanging rally
Parts primed and hanging 50 special
Parts primed and hanging 50 special
Rally painted
Rally painted
50 special painted with trim tape removed
50 special painted with trim tape removed
Multi prep and paint shot
Multi prep and paint shot
Only error of the sessions
Only error of the sessions
Take your time, feel and always use fresh soaked paper, there are plenty sheets, start with one, work your way up slowly. Liquid polish follow up with meguiars 105 then 205 with a car buffer. Run never existed!
Take your time, feel and always use fresh soaked paper, there are plenty sheets, start with one, work your way up slowly. Liquid polish follow up with meguiars 105 then 205 with a car buffer. Run never existed!
Imperfection gone! Single stage is just base mixed with clear so it can be wet sanded (solid colors)
Imperfection gone! Single stage is just base mixed with clear so it can be wet sanded (solid colors)
Finally assembled
Finally assembled
Paint looks factory fresh. Remember it's all in the prep! It only takes 45 minutes to paint but many many many hours making the foundation.
Paint looks factory fresh. Remember it's all in the prep! It only takes 45 minutes to paint but many many many hours making the foundation.
3m pps system is great for painting in angled areas like under the headset (original dust covers painted separately of course)
3m pps system is great for painting in angled areas like under the headset (original dust covers painted separately of course)
OP
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Post up a link for your mini mite if you can. Great work!
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That is some gorgeous painting and your final assembly on the Rally is spot on! I like how you were able do all this with that smaller, quieter and simpler system as well. Now it makes me wonder how your next project will turn out Nerd emoticon.

Patina Project Primavera " ...some work needed but will be preserving the patina as best as can. ...Will be matching paint and wear marks to blend best as can!"
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So you are the guy who loves old original paint and is willing to go to great lengths to save it, but also the amateur guy who paints like a pro. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how you do your Primmy now! Popcorn emoticon
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sdjohn wrote:
Post up a link for your mini mite if you can. Great work!
As requested!

https://www.amazon.com/Fuji-2805-T75G-Mini-Mite-Gravity-System/dp/B01B9X3GKW/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=1XEVYDXEMEPES&keywords=mini+mite+5&qid=1692831005&sprefix=mini+mite+5%2Caps%2C249&sr=8-1

Now this is more towards the higher end of the line but again, all pretty much work the same. I know in the furniture industry they tend to go with bottom feed. I just prefer and like the top gravity with the PPS cup system/vacuum hose. Way less overspray too I forget to mention from a compressor set up. And be sure to keep the unit out of the "fog" as it needs clean air.
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V oodoo wrote:
That is some gorgeous painting and your final assembly on the Rally is spot on! I like how you were able do all this with that smaller, quieter and simpler system as well. Now it makes me wonder how your next project will turn out Nerd emoticon.
Thank you Terry! Appreciate that! Hobbyist for sure. Paint is the fun part, prep and getting a good base is time consuming and frustrating at times. The engine cowl gave me a run for my money:

Yes patina project will be fun, will be using the gun on that, but after some candle wax /tape masking to "Match" the spots, we shall see how it works.
Before, dented and bent louvre
Before, dented and bent louvre
During and final to paint.  Smooth out contour as best as ability could
During and final to paint. Smooth out contour as best as ability could
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Holy f-balls that Rally is awesome! looking good and look forward to the smallie!
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Most excellent work for sure.
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Numbers wiped on. I use water base acrylic paint, this brand seems to hold up very well and is easy to work with. If wiping after assembly, make sure to mask the seam otherwise paint will easily make it through. I also prep about 4 small lightly dampened paper shop towels to follow up wipe to take off excess. Apply a few drops to tip of finger (wear rubber glove, application is better) work into numbers and dot, then follow up with initial wipe, then 2 more. After a few minutes, use the last to clean up or lightly remove any excess around area, then let dry. Sets smooth within the factory stamp.
Looks the part.
Looks the part.
I use off-white. Works great every time.
I use off-white. Works great every time.
Completes the look.
Completes the look.
@orwell84 avatar
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scootscott wrote:
Numbers wiped on. I use water base acrylic paint, this brand seems to hold up very well and is easy to work with. If wiping after assembly, make sure to mask the seam otherwise paint will easily make it through. I also prep about 4 small lightly dampened paper shop towels to follow up wipe to take off excess. Apply a few drops to tip of finger (wear rubber glove, application is better) work into numbers and dot, then follow up with initial wipe, then 2 more. After a few minutes, use the last to clean up or lightly remove any excess around area, then let dry. Sets smooth within the factory stamp.
That looks great. I was thinking of doing something similar with VIN number.
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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I did the same technique, but used nail polish and acetone. Also works great.
@lynnb avatar
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One thing I learned the hard way when I put a wide strip of tape around handle to hold in place at neutral for gear cable adjustment is the tape will pull off even the cured paint or at least the weakest point.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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134 Days Since Last Explosion
 
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@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9477
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134 Days Since Last Explosion
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Lynnb wrote:
One thing I learned the hard way when I put a wide strip of tape around handle to hold in place at neutral for gear cable adjustment is the tape will pull off even the cured paint or at least the weakest point.
Ouch!

I'm glad I've never tried that technique now. I usually just put a sharpie mark from the bottom of the shift tube over to the fork on the bottom side so I can see alignment underneath. The sharpie has never pulled the paint off yet.
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Hooked
'58 VBA
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Location: Chico CA
 
Hooked
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Yeah, I've got a square patch of primer now instead of paint.
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Grumpnut wrote:
Yeah, I've got a square patch of primer now instead of paint.
Bummer
⬆️    About 6 months elapsed    ⬇️
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I have posted in this thread, but never read it through. Lots of good info. I have done lots of prep, but not much painting. Painting gives me the jitters. My hand literally shakes when pouring paint. Well, not anymore. Here's what worked best for me:

Painting a Vespa is harder than a car. As described earlier in this thread, doing 4 or more coats in a specific sequence is really important to get even coats on everything and not have missed or thin spots. Also, you need to keep the gun at a 90* angle for every surface you do to get uniform coverage, which requires painting at some strange angles when doing the frame.

You will need that paint thickness because any DIY painting will need color sanding to correct peel and dust nibs, etc. If you have poor coverage you may end up sanding through which is time consuming to fix. A lot of flaws can be fixed with color sanding, but you need to have enough paint thickness to work with.

Setup: I made this rack to hang all the parts to be painted. It was impossible to coat them evenly because they were too close together and I wound up in a toxic cloud that made it hard to see.

I ended up making a turntable with assortment of wood blocks to prop up each part so I get a good shot at everything. I painted each part on the turntable and hung them on the rack to cure. I had hanging wires looped on before I painted. The turntable isn't important. If you have more space, any setup that lets you paint each part in a comfortable position will work.

Equipment. I have a decent size compressor and a decent paint gun. My best results were with a Harbor Freight touch up gun and a pancake compressor. The small pattern and low paint output slowed everything down so so I could see what I was doing. I set up my lighting so that I could see the paint hitting the surface and flowing out and where I was overlapping each pass. I used a flashlight to see this happening in tight spots. They actually make paint guns with integrated lights.
Everything is too close together. Ended up with lots of runs.
Everything is too close together. Ended up with lots of runs.
@bajarob avatar
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Addicted
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
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Location: Ventura, CA
 
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@bajarob avatar
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 561
Location: Ventura, CA
UTC quote
Lot of great info here. You can get a quality paint job without expensive equipment and paint. It's all about how much work your willing to do and what type of final finish you want. I will add that even the best prep won't guarantee a beautiful finish, still have to know your gun and paint characteristics. Clean dry air is essential. Small compressors send more water and oils into your hose than larger ones. A good delivery system and correct filter will take care of that. The other drawback is cfm. Even running full time the compressor might not be able to keep up. Things to know before you buy. I use a 60 gal vertical at home and our paint shop is 120 gal and has an air dryer installed. If you want to try painting yourself this thread covers most of it. If anyone needs more help or has more specific questions I'll give you any info I can based on my experiences and the knowledge of the painter at my work. 😁
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